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-   -   Smoking on the train platforms.uughh (https://www.englishforum.ch/complaints-corner/105247-smoking-train-platforms-uughh.html)

Guest 21.08.2017 17:33

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 2834815)
Personally I don't understand the way of thinking.

Arriving at the terrace of a mountain restaurant last week (after walking up, lungs full of clean, fresh, mountain air), we were greeted with clouds of smoke (people were smoking at every table).

We had planned to stop there but didn't bother. Sure, people like Stlemans may find it pleasant but we didn't.

People smoke, govenments collect tobacco tax, they are facts and you have to live with it. Smoking is now forbidden inside, so people go outside. If you forbid smoking within 10 meters of a doorway, well people will move 10 m away, not 11m.

It is an addiction, people can't just decide to smoke one day and not the next. You were happy with youlungs full of clean air, the smokers were probably not really happy with lungs full of smoke, but the alternative cold turkey, no cigarettes, is worse, so they were happy in their own way too.

You have to live and let live and it is accepted for the time being, it is ok to smoke outside, smokers have already moved from inside so maybe it's the turn of the non smokers to move if they are outside and not happy.

Salad Days 21.08.2017 17:38

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
I read a while back that Switzerland was waiting to see what happened in Australia to their case vs the cigarette companies before deciding on future policy - ie a pragmatic approach. But Australia has just won in court, so perhaps the Swiss will now take a strong(er?) anti-smoking stance.

Tom1234 21.08.2017 18:05

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

People smoke, govenments collect tobacco tax, they are facts and you have to live with it. Smoking is now forbidden inside, so people go outside. If you forbid smoking within 10 meters of a doorway, well people will move 10 m away, not 11m.

It is an addiction, people can't just decide to smoke one day and not the next. You were happy with youlungs full of clean air, the smokers were probably not really happy with lungs full of smoke, but the alternative cold turkey, no cigarettes, is worse, so they were happy in their own way too.

You have to live and let live and it is accepted for the time being, it is ok to smoke outside, smokers have already moved from inside so maybe it's the turn of the non smokers to move if they are outside and not happy.
Thanks for stating the obvious. Well done you!

Salad Days 21.08.2017 18:16

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:


You have to live and let live and it is accepted for the time being, it is ok to smoke outside, smokers have already moved from inside so maybe it's the turn of the non smokers to move if they are outside and not happy.
If it has to be one or the other, I wish it worked like in Japan where (at least when I was last in Tokyo about 6 years ago) it was banned outside but not in. One of the issues with forcing all smokers and their friends outside is that at 3am when once upon a time a bunch of drunks would have been in a bar smoking and drinking, now they are all outside and it has made noise pollution much worse. As it is only anti-social to make noise inside (as I understand the national stand), that means that nobody living in situations with late night bars nearby has the right to be able to live (or sleep) in peace at night.

greenmount 21.08.2017 18:17

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Salad Days (Post 2834685)
I don't understand the notion that all outside areas in restaurants should be big ashtrays. I was at one of the few places I go to in Geneva a few days ago, outside because there was no choice, they close their indoor eating area in summer. Somebody was smoking a cigar a few feet away. Why is it allowed? I don't get it.

Well, it is the same in Germany at the terraces of restaurants or beer gardens..Last week the only table that was free at a terrace somewhere in Germany was full of ashtrays, we assumed that the people from the other tables deposited them on the only one free table left. We sat there anyway. Just two of the ashtrays were taken by couple of smokers, funny.
There are less people who smoke there even when they can, so it must be the pro-health lobby, really.

Urs Max 22.08.2017 08:47

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Salad Days (Post 2834831)
I read a while back that Switzerland was waiting to see what happened in Australia to their case vs the cigarette companies before deciding on future policy - ie a pragmatic approach. But Australia has just won in court, so perhaps the Swiss will now take a strong(er?) anti-smoking stance.

Are you talking about Philip Morris International moving regional headquarters to Hong Kong(or Sinapore?), only to sue Australia for some change in smoking legislation? AFAIR such won't be possible in CH because the lawsuit is based on some ancient treaty between Hong Kong(?) and Australia with an unusual clause.

However TTIP would probably enable companies for such, one of the big reasons to refuse it.

Chemmie 22.08.2017 09:34

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Interestingly enough, the rates of lung cancer in Switzerland are fairly inline with the rest of Europe.


Skin cancer however is in the higher levels in comparison. So for those who hate the smell of smoke---staying inside is a double win!

baboon 22.08.2017 09:44

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chemmie (Post 2835015)
Interestingly enough, the rates of lung cancer in Switzerland are fairly inline with the rest of Europe.

...in fairness that reflects smoking rates from 20 or 30 years ago and not now. Smoking rates then were roughly on a par with most neighbouring countries. However since then smoking rates have not declined as quickly as many of those.

Chemmie 22.08.2017 10:02

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baboon (Post 2835024)
...in fairness that reflects smoking rates from 20 or 30 years ago and not now. Smoking rates then were roughly on a par with most neighbouring countries. However since then smoking rates have not declined as quickly as many of those.

I was looking at a report covering 2003-2007.


But yeah, I didn't look to deep--this could indeed be the case.


Eitherway, looking at the cancer report I glanced at:


http://www.nicer.org/assets/files/pu...weiz_e_web.pdf


I would say there's many other issues more pressing than second hand smoke when it comes to Cancer

baboon 22.08.2017 10:55

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chemmie (Post 2835038)
I would say there's many other issues more pressing than second hand smoke when it comes to Cancer

True - but given that this is a completely avoidable source if smokers actually have real respect for others still worth doing.

Chemmie 22.08.2017 11:18

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baboon (Post 2835087)
True - but given that this is a completely avoidable source if smokers actually have real respect for others still worth doing.

Agree---respect goes both ways (coming from a respectful semi-smoker).


My general rule is in open spaces, stay as far away from everyone (I won't prepare the finite element analysis of smoke dispersion ;).)


As well for non-smokers, if you are hanging around near an ashtray, don't expect to not to smell smoke.


If in an area outside with many ashtrays, and a non smoker complains, perhaps I'll strawman over to asking them if they have sunblock on :P

Urs Max 22.08.2017 11:29

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baboon (Post 2835087)
True - but given that this is a completely avoidable source if smokers actually have real respect for others still worth doing.

I highly doubt this kind of second hand smoke (the examples presented in this thread, someone smoking at the next table or on your bnch etc) is really noticeable health-wise. This is much more about the smell itself.

Tom1234 22.08.2017 11:50

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 2835106)
I highly doubt this kind of second hand smoke (the examples presented in this thread, someone smoking at the next table or on your bnch etc) is really noticeable health-wise. This is much more about the smell itself.

That's true enough but it's not just about the smell. De-normalising smoking so it's not seen as an almost inevitable part of peoples' lives does stop people starting again and helps a lot to prevent new smokers from starting up, especially younger people.

Smoking bans in very public places which most people really can't avoid, and where people have to wait around, such as station platforms, would really help in this respect.

You don't even need a law for this - just the ability of people to see the bigger picture and not be so damn selfish.

Blueangel 22.08.2017 12:36

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 2835117)
Smoking bans in very public places which most people really can't avoid, and where people have to wait around, such as station platforms, would really help in this respect.

The train platforms where I live are about 300 mts long, completely open air, and very sparsely occupied even at rush hour.

More to the point, when Switzerland changes the law, I will respect the law. Until then, it's not my place to tell them what to do. It's for Swiss people to decide and for the Swiss government to impose. Until then, it's none of my business because I'm a guest in their country.

Tom1234 22.08.2017 13:38

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 2835142)

More to the point, when Switzerland changes the law, I will respect the law. Until then, it's not my place to tell them what to do. It's for Swiss people to decide and for the Swiss government to impose. Until then, it's none of my business because I'm a guest in their country.

That's another one of my points I made earlier. Sure, it's the law. But you're not breaking the law by not smoking, are you? Can't you wait until you get home to smoke?

Urs Max 22.08.2017 13:44

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 2835117)
That's true enough but it's not just about the smell. De-normalising smoking so it's not seen as an almost inevitable part of peoples' lives does stop people starting again and helps a lot to prevent new smokers from starting up, especially younger people.

Smoking bans in very public places which most people really can't avoid, and where people have to wait around, such as station platforms, would really help in this respect.

You don't even need a law for this - just the ability of people to see the bigger picture and not be so damn selfish.

The complaints in this thread are about the smell, and occasionally about its unhealthiness. I think you're the first to mention something else.

Your reproach about egotism is completely arbitrary, to term it in a neutral way. Everybody including you does a whole lot of stuff that endangers others, sometimes even one's loved ones. There may be no other way but that doesn't change the fact.

The most effective and efficient way to reduce new smokers would be a ban on advertising. IIRC the last national referendum on tobacco was the "Zwillingsinitiative" 20-30 years ago, it proposed to introduce an advertising ban on smoking and alcoholic beverages but was rejected. You're welcome to initiate a new one, it's a generation since and I think it would actually be accepted this time.

Chemmie 22.08.2017 13:50

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 2835188)
The complaints in this thread are about the smell, and occasionally about its unhealthiness. I think you're the first to mention something else.

Your reproach about egotism is completely arbitrary, to term it in a neutral way. Everybody including you does a whole lot of stuff that endangers others, sometimes even one's loved ones. There may be no other way but that doesn't change the fact.

The most effective and efficient way to reduce new smokers would be a ban on advertising. IIRC the last national referendum on tobacco was the "Zwillingsinitiative" 20-30 years ago, it proposed to introduce an advertising ban on smoking and alcololic beverages but was rejected. You're welcome to initiate a new one, it's a generation since and I think it would actually be accepted this time.

I think I posted this a few times earlier in this thread--but Canada has an approach like this which I think is working fairly well.
Advertisements/Promotions/Branding cannot be accessible to young persons (in cases of plublications less than 85% adult readership).
This includes displaying the products in stores. If you want a pack of smokes, you have to ask for it specifically, and they sales person has to retrieve them from a non-visible location.


Not saying it would work here, but it works well there.

Guest 22.08.2017 13:51

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 2835181)
That's another one of my points I made earlier. Sure, it's the law. But you're not breaking the law by not smoking, are you? Can't you wait until you get home to smoke?

No Tom, a lot of people cannot which is something you seem to have trouble grasping, or should that be gasping....:D

Tom1234 22.08.2017 13:57

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Quote:

No Tom, a lot of people cannot which is something you seem to have trouble grasping, or should that be gasping....:D
Please run along now. You're getting to be a bit of a nuisance again.

You're adding nothing to the discussion which now seems to be running along on a more adult level.

Patsycat 22.08.2017 14:27

Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh
 
Years ago, when they banned smoking inside cafés and restaurants in Geneva the owners complained that they had lost a lot of clients and money. I remember that at a place I went to regularly on a Friday night. One week packed, the next only a handful of people.

So they stopped the ban, only to bring it back. I do think it is a good thing, and am shocked if someone "forgets" and lights up!! I don't mind going outside and I do smoke less. Also you don't have the risk of someone burning a hole in the back of your winter coat!!

When the terraces start opening, it's bliss. Sometimes us hardy Genevans even sit in the cold all afternoon on a terrace. If it's sunny it's nice. And it never really gets too cold. We do respect others, just need them to respect us a bit too.

Stopping smoking on train platforms, smokers will only go and stand at the front of the station. Which is probably smaller and more crowded.

Geneva Airport has a smoking room, it has comfy couches and is very well aired. If I'm too early for my flight, I pop in there and read my book for a while. Rather than being all jittery on the flight!!


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