You need to be here. If one's posts are not 100% clear to each and every forum user then one gets attacked on all fronts!

You never did explain why you thought it was so wrong for me to say that Italians use gesticulating as a non-verbal form of communication.

Others have pointed out that Italians wouldn't have been offended by it.

Just wondered why you were? I'm sure they'd be glad that you were offended on their behalf though. #MeToo

I was taking my daughter to the Doctor, and felt that was a more valuable use of my time than saying why racist tropes are racist.

Offence is fairly irrelevant in the context you are using it - I am sure you can find black people not offended by the N-word, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be cutting about the Niederdorf shouting it at all and sundry. Hell, some black people will even work with a notorious racist to enhance their career (we're looking at YOU, Ben Carson).

Now then, with all of that in mind, it's fairly clear that using some old 70s Bernhard Manning routine about wobbly headed Indians and hand-talking Italians could be viewed as distasteful. You're free to do it, but you cannot be annoyed about people telling you it was last amusing 40 years ago.

bff ?

You were missing though.

#MeToo is not about being offended. Use something else to point score with, eh?

It wasn't meant to be amusing. Not sure why you (and others #MeToo) found it funny.

We frequently have Italians to stay at our house. We've got some coming again soon. I frequently visit and stay with Italian friends and family all over Italy (I was last there last week).

Seriously - none of them would have been offended. Others on this forum said the same - St1Lemans and greenmount, for two.

As for the Indian head waggling- it's like us nodding or shaking our heads. Of course if I was doing impressions then that may be construed as offensive but I was pointing out facts as an example.

But as I wrote - thanks for getting offended on their behalf.

Dude. Seriously. Pick a different hashtag. This one does not mean what you appear to think it means.

So, would you say that some of your best friends are Italian, Tom?

pls do not use #metoo to mean "offended by something"

"The Me Too movement (or #MeToo movement), with a large variety of local and international related names, is a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault."


also we get it, you didn't mean to offend. but some ppl might take offence, just live with that fact, and stop repeating the actual offensive stereotypes you have perpetuated - multiple times (repeating them doesn't make it less offensive, infact it just makes you seem even more prejudiced)

No, it was being accused of being racist. Am I not allowed to defend my position?

Sorry for using #MeToo. I meant something like "#Me as well" as quite a few people appeared to be offended too.

Sometimes it is better to quit whilst behind. I don't know Greenmount, but Ticino Tom isn't Italian, so not sure what his opinion has to do with things - again though, as I said, anecdotal offence isn't really the issue. Dunno if you've had many debates on racism, but I can assure you that the defence of "I have many Italian friends" doesn't really cut the Olio Peperoncino.

Take that to the logical next level - do you remember Prince Harry had an Arabic army mate he affectionately called Towelhead? I can fully believe that that's fun banter between the two of them and his friend wasn't offended - now supposing he called anyone else in the Arabic world that...should they also not be offended by it as his Arabic friend wasn't?

No issue with self defence. Have at it. All the issue in the world with using #MeToo as a pejorative.

Apology accepted.

Family (through marriage) - a lot of it. Friends too but mainly family.

Not quite the same as your two weeks in a villa in Tuscany.

Really? Seriously you put that on the same level as describing mannerisms?

And you say I'm digging a hole?

Bloody nora, do you need another shovel, Tom?

Yours must be worn down to the handle by now!

Well, you know the tone makes the music or something like this. You came across as a bit sarcastic.

Honestly I've seen truly racist stuff on EF and it was like it was acceptable, casual racism. Stereotypes about Italians and French can be funny and I think people know when someone is joking or being dead serious.

But yes, please don't diminish the #MeToo thing.

Wow, you've come up with an even more desperate justification than "Some of my best friends are Italian". Incredibile! The good news is that you are right, nobody with foreign family can be mildly xenophobic. Case closed.

Not sure what my Italian chops have to do with it though - I speak Italian and have spent decent chunks of time there if that helps make my point more valid in your opinion? My time in Tuscany was mostly spent with family, and not in a Villa


Which bit of "Take it to the next logical level" did you not get? You didn't answer my question I see - is it acceptable for our fine ginger prince to call all arabs towelheads?

Having family or friends doesn't give you special dispensation.

The difference is - I'm not calling anyone anything. Not sure why you find that so hard to understand.

As for the "next logical level" : saying they all drive around on Vespas and eat spaghetti wold be more akin to what I was saying than whatever is in your mind.

I guess we're going to accept that we find different things offensive.

But hey, next time you say something that I find offensive on the forum, I'll be sure to call you out on it, and I'll be sure to take it to the "next logical level".

Is this never going to stop?

Seriously, I suggest you take a break from this forum and watch one of my favourite comedians - Sebastian Maniscalco.


Btw, how on earth did we get here? Smoking on the platform something something....let's get back to it.

Feel free to - it's an open forum, i'll probably just ignore your opinion and not create 5 pages of extra thread on it. I don't know why you didn't do similar unless I hit a nerve - and if I did, I hope it has given you pause to re-evaluate your position.

I would incidentally also class the spaghetti and vespas as more 70s mild xenophobia.

Also, please note at no point did I call you racist, not sure why you are going down that path. People can say mildly xenophobic things to try and be funny without being a racist - heck, John Terry can call someone a "black canute" and officially not be a racist.

Nah, it's Urs Max (sorry lack of adjectives for this instance)