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  #41  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:25
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

Although from the sounds of it, this person was just inconsiderate.

But is it impossible to rule out a situation where this person was physically disabled in some way, bad back, bum leg.

Perhaps this person does not speak the language here, and felt unsure to say something wrong. Perhaps they suffered from severe social axiety, and taking to a stranger could throw them into a nervous breakdown.
Maybe they were severely allergic to dogs and needed to keep distance before suffocating.

I realize this is extreme speculation, but just as extreme as branding all men as 'non-men' and inconsiderate because of one individual.
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Old 06.02.2011, 19:25
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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And where are the real women who would do my washing, cleaning, cooking?

You can't expect the guys to treat you like we're in the fifties when women don't treat men like they did in the fifties...

Your incident showed lack of consideration which is also sign of the times but was not a gender issue.


Hmmmmphfffff !!

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  #43  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:26
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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I'm so sorry to hear that. I definitely wouldn't have just walked away!

I would have had a good laugh first.
Yes, but did the gentleman bring me back some KFC today?
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  #44  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:27
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

This Thread reminded me of another one some time back
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In the good old days (in the UK) no lady was required to communicate with a waiter. The lady, who had a menu with no prices on, would choose the delicacies she fancied, perhaps with advice on the wine from her knowledgable gentleman friend, and HE would, of course, do the ordering.

Those were the days - it goes without saying that I could have done it by myself - but ah, the pleasure of having ones coat taken and hung up, ones chair pulled back and pushed in, the ordering and, last but not least, the paying, all done 'without my stir' ... (soft sigh) times long gone.

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I don't know where you lived in the UK, but walking with a gentleman was always a 'change-sides' when we went over a road so that the lady walked on the 'inside' of the footpath and my father stood up whenever a lady entered the room until the day he died. I wouldn't say I'd want all the other bits of the same etiquette back, but it was lovely while it lasted. I still enjoy having doors help open for me now.
I cannot remember falling over though, so maybe it wouldn't have worked then either.
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  #45  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:28
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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And where are the real women who would do my washing, cleaning, cooking?

You can't expect the guys to treat you like we're in the fifties when women don't treat men like they did in the fifties...

Your incident showed lack of consideration which is also sign of the times but was not a gender issue.
Hmmmm...I am not sure if expecting a guy to help somedy stand up is the same as labor division at home. When I pushed my baby carriage around, I would also expect the guys to be helping out with it, not the girls, first. And it was that way. If I saw a chick there and a guy, he would be the first to jump to help, if you know what I mean, and the girl would check with him first, before offering her services. Labor division is not about carrying heavy things or things related to physical strength (sorry feminists, I know, medieval).
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  #46  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:30
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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...or chivalry is really dead?
That REAL MAN was actually very busy:
He was on his way to slay a dragon.

You know REAL MEN chivalry things and all that...
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  #47  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:31
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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.
Maybe I am old fashioned but I do love when men open doors for me, saying hello to me first, or taking heavy bags from me.
Hm but men still do all this, or is it only the ones I meet? And even though I have heard about those scary feminists who supposedly hit you on the head if you open the door for them, I have never actually witnessed it.
Guys, any experiences with being told off by a woman when you only wanted to be polite?
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  #48  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:36
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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A very well dressed, respectful looking gentleman, in his 70s, walked into me, hit me really hard, pushed me on the side while also pushing his little wife to the side at the same time, and yelled "salope" at me.
For a man that age calling a woman Salope, he definitely wasn't there when back then curtesy passed by.

This is an exemple when the outfit doesn't make the man. In this case, he was a very rude jerk and the sole of his shoes were cleaner than his mouth!
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  #49  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:36
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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Hm but men still do all this, or is it only the ones I meet? And even though I have heard about those scary feminists who supposedly hit you on the head if you open the door for them, I have never actually witnessed it.
Guys, any experiences with being told off by a woman when you only wanted to be polite?

Definitely never had this issue before. But I hold doors for anyone.

on an off topic side note, if you're in a passive agressive mood, it's fun to hold doors for people who are a good distance away just to watch innocent strangers hurry.
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Old 06.02.2011, 19:38
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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Guys, any experiences with being told off by a woman when you only wanted to be polite?
Not specifically women, but I've often been scowled at when holding the door open for people round Zurich.

Never could get my head round that one. Perhaps I awakened a latent fear of reciprocal social obligation?
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  #51  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:39
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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... when my ankle gave away and I was flat on my face in the middle of the street. A guy was walking by about ten feet away from me, looking at me laying on the ground and he WALKS AWAY!!
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  #52  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:40
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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Hang on... we're drawing all these sociological conclusions from the selfish behaviour of one man?
.
That was one of the points that I was trying to make but apparently someone got the Math is Hard Barbie for Xmas awhile back.
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  #53  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:43
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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Hmmmm...I am not sure if expecting a guy to help somedy stand up is the same as labor division at home.
Expecting a guy to help you up is a gender issue. Expecting someone to ask if you are alright and do you need help is simple courtesy and is not a gender issue. This is the issue that we 'real men' are having with this whole thread.

If a woman falls down and the only other person around is another woman, will everyone wait until a man shows up? What if the other woman doesn't help? In that case, can we justifiably rant about the lack of 'real women' in society?
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  #54  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:45
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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Not specifically women, but I've often been scowled at when holding the door open for people round Zurich.

Never could get my head round that one. Perhaps I awakened a latent fear of reciprocal social obligation?
I've had women refuse to go through a door I was holding for them as if I were somehow oppressing them. Of course, I never check behind me to see who is there, I just check after I've opened the door and do it for anyone. You ladies can send thanks and checks to my parents if you wish.
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  #55  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:50
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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Expecting a guy to help you up is a gender issue. Expecting someone to ask if you are alright and do you need help is simple courtesy and is not a gender issue. This is the issue that we 'real men' are having with this whole thread.

If a woman falls down and the only other person around is another woman, will everyone wait until a man shows up? What if the other woman doesn't help? In that case, can we justifiably rant about the lack of 'real women' in society?
We understand all the difference between curtesy and chivalry. The OP mixed them both and probably without any bad intention. She was on the floor, a man passed and didn't help nor asked if she was ok. This was a lack of plain curtesy and empathy for an other human being.

If a woman was passing by, it will have been the same expectation, same concerns and same results.

The OP took this exemple and open a discussion about chivalry. Does chivalry has a gender? When it is curtesy and when it is chivalry?

What REAL men of this forum think?
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  #56  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:56
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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Yes, but did the gentleman bring me back some KFC today?
Yes he did. He's a real man.
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  #57  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:56
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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What REAL men of this forum think?
Haven't got time to answer that right now .... I've got a cold one waiting .... and it's soon time for Top Gear.

[you missed out a "c" when you wrote above of chivalry and courtesy --- "chauvinism"]
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  #58  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:57
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

Helping out is not something that just men are supposed to do though. I do that all the time -I spend a lot of time on the (ski) slopes helping out people in trouble- so does my OH. it is just a normal part of human life. I hold doors for people, especially mums with pushchairs, or the elderly, etc. It does not make me a real man! What is a real man btw. Your definition may be very different from mine. Is it one with a gun at the back of the wardrobe?
No excuse, wo/man or child - any decent person in this situation would have stopped and helped and made sure you were OK.
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Old 06.02.2011, 19:59
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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That was one of the points that I was trying to make but apparently someone got the Math is Hard Barbie for Xmas awhile back.
We need to start giving these away here




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Expecting a guy to help you up is a gender issue. Expecting someone to ask if you are alright and do you need help is simple courtesy and is not a gender issue.
I expect both genders to help out, since it is something I would automatically do. But, at the same time, if there is a guy and a chick present and the guys is a strapping man, I would expect that from him. Just like I would expect it from a 20yr old chick, rather than a 90yr old frail and tired babichka. So, I don't really think it is a gender issue, more an issue of people being more equipped to pull some mass up.

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If a woman falls down and the only other person around is another woman, will everyone wait until a man shows up?
Ok now, for being all for equal this and that, that does not give much credit to that girl, does it....

If people do not help, they are lousy. If somebody makes a comment about having experienced some guys not helping (seems to be a common gripe here), then maybe it is time to think about what chivalry means.
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  #60  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:59
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Re: Where are the REAL MEN?

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... I do blame women, mothers for bringing up boys with no sense of who they are. ...
Fathers also have an equal responsibility for this.
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