Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:42
red_conundrum's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bqoiutniw
Posts: 371
Groaned at 84 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 574 Times in 205 Posts
red_conundrum has a reputation beyond reputered_conundrum has a reputation beyond reputered_conundrum has a reputation beyond reputered_conundrum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
It has been a few years since I studies consumer law but everything you have written is not correct or else contacts would be being broken left right & centre just beacuse people changed their mind. The shop is not doing anything illegal. The contract is binding. Their customer service is shocking but that is not against the law.
Contracs DO get rescinded left and right because people change their minds. Contracts DO NOT get rescinded when one of the parties has already fulfilled their side of the contract.

Since neither party has fulfilled its side of the contract, the contract (in most countries), can be rescinded.

Remember what a contract is: it is a promise to perform an action in exchange for some benefit. If you do not get the benefit, you do not need to perform the stated action.

In other words, IFF the dress people have not ordered the dress, they have not started the action that gives them the benefit of your money. The contract has not been fulfilled, thus it can, in theory, be rescinded. Once they order the dress, you're stuffed, because then you're bound by the contract: the vendor fulfilled its promise, so you must fulfill yours. But it appears that in this case they haven't (yet) fulfilled their promise, so you may (depends on specific laws of Switzerland), still have hope of getting your money back.

Again, fight this, but get proper legal advice.

P.S. Complications can arise, of course, if they order the dress in spite of you telling them not to. Then you're on really murky waters but I suspect you're still in the right. You lose nothing by looking into it, and proper legal advice is probably worth it. Don't trust the advice of strangers on the internet, etc.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank red_conundrum for this useful post:
This user groans at red_conundrum for this post:
  #42  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:45
kiwiguy08's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,381
Groaned at 61 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,189 Times in 605 Posts
kiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputation
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
She wasn't 'forced' to make the order though - she, like many of us at some time or other, got carried away. And the law says that ordered is ordered.
True, I think what the others are saying though and what is my own opinion, there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. If a company will not suffer financial damages they really morally should not push this, so harshly. We are willing to reimburse them for their time spent on this issue and give up a few hundred CHF.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank kiwiguy08 for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:45
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

If you really want to get a better outcome, then visit the store when its got a few customers in, mid day sat for example, then calmly but loudly explain the situation to the store worker \ manager making sure everyone in the store can hear you (but don't shout!!)

Keep calm, don't be unreasonable, get the facts across, offer a compromise to the manager (so they look bad if they refuse) the store wont want to risk all the other prospective customers walking out.

works everytime
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:46
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Frankfurt (Ex-Zurich)
Posts: 869
Groaned at 95 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 584 Times in 331 Posts
FrankS has earned the respect of manyFrankS has earned the respect of manyFrankS has earned the respect of many
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

@red conundrum: you can reformulate your opinion as often as you want, you are still utterly wrong.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank FrankS for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:48
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
Contracs DO get rescinded left and right because people change their minds.

yes they do, usually with the forfeit of things like deposits
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:48
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Frankfurt (Ex-Zurich)
Posts: 869
Groaned at 95 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 584 Times in 331 Posts
FrankS has earned the respect of manyFrankS has earned the respect of manyFrankS has earned the respect of many
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
True, I think what the others are saying though and what is my own opinion, there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
The spirit of the law: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacta_sunt_servanda
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:49
Lou's Avatar
Lou Lou is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,778
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,227 Times in 1,474 Posts
Lou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

contracts can only be rescinded if both parties agree. If one party changes their mind & withdraws legal proceeding can be brought against them by the other party for damages.

Quote:
View Post
Contracs DO get rescinded left and right because people change their minds. Contracts DO NOT get rescinded when one of the parties has already fulfilled their side of the contract.

Since neither party has fulfilled its side of the contract, the contract (in most countries), can be rescinded.

Remember what a contract is: it is a promise to perform an action in exchange for some benefit. If you do not get the benefit, you do not need to perform the stated action.

In other words, IFF the dress people have not ordered the dress, they have not started the action that gives them the benefit of your money. The contract has not been fulfilled, thus it can, in theory, be rescinded. Once they order the dress, you're stuffed, because then you're bound by the contract: the vendor fulfilled its promise, so you must fulfill yours. But it appears that in this case they haven't (yet) fulfilled their promise, so you may (depends on specific laws of Switzerland), still have hope of getting your money back.

Again, fight this, but get proper legal advice.

P.S. Complications can arise, of course, if they order the dress in spite of you telling them not to. Then you're on really murky waters but I suspect you're still in the right. You lose nothing by looking into it, and proper legal advice is probably worth it. Don't trust the advice of strangers on the internet, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:49
kiwiguy08's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,381
Groaned at 61 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,189 Times in 605 Posts
kiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputation
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
kiwiguy, can you please clarify if its the cost or if its the dress she doesnt like?
The dress is really a great dress and she does like it...the thing is she has said that she really was totally caught up in the moment and in a rational situation she would not have bought it. That and their subsequent behavior towards us has totally turned us off to them!

We could take the 4600, buy her a dress, buy a suit for me, shoes, and a lot more, but for me the though of having it on me on the wedding day is a bit repulsive. Same for her
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank kiwiguy08 for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
I don't know if there is, but it is worth a check, if there are consumer protection laws that allow you to rescind an order within 24 hours. It may apply at this price range.

Also, I assumed you paid with cash, and not with credit card. With a credit card, you still have leverage to contest the charge, and the hassle for the store is oftentimes not worth their time. A credit card company might be able to exact some cooperation from the store.
Copied and pasted from a reputable shop ....... a snippet related to the ordering of wedding dresses....

"Before wedding dress tailoring, all dress orders canceled within 12 hours from the initial purchase will lose none of the merchandise purchase price for customers' color, size and style exchange. Once dress tailored, all dress orders canceled 12 hours later and 3 days before the initial purchase will lose 20% of the merchandise purchase price, also for above exchange need from customers. If a dress order with emergency fee extra paid, its cancelation will principally be denied, otherwise 50% of the merchandise purchase price will be lost with no emergency fee back."

Surely, in my opinion, a shop catering to brides, relies a lot on word of mouth referrals? There is a lot of competition for business in this field .... of massive profit margins. I know, because I used to make wedding dresses ....... lovely lolly rewards!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
contracts can only be rescinded if both parties agree. If one party changes their mind & withdraws legal proceeding can be brought against them by the other party for damages.
Somewhere in my research on this subject, I found the figure of Chf500 being the lower limit for "cooling off" and changing one`s mind about an order.

It applies to the purchase of auto`s, why not an expensive wedding gown?

Me, I would plant myself in the shop, demand the money back ... while Bridezilla cries helplessly.........making a scene for potential customers to view .....
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:53
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Simply_D has no particular reputation at present
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

pressure sales, for their own reputation they really should come to a compromise. Yes, the timings do sound a bit dubious, if they are simply not backing down, turn it around ! By now your fiance probably detests anything from that store, so in-terms of the big day they cast a little shadow on the dress side of things. Bit of a gamble...but if they really have ordered it then it should be delivered as promised...if they are fibbing...well come d-day they will be in breach of the contract ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:54
kiwiguy08's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,381
Groaned at 61 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,189 Times in 605 Posts
kiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputation
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

What really grinds my gears is that if they have supposedly ordered the dress then why are they letting me partially out of the agreement by allowing us to take a 4600 chf credit. They are still going to be stuck with that dress and cannot just sell it.

Plus the items like the bra and the "underdress" are rather off the shelf items and we still have to commit to them!
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:54
Lou's Avatar
Lou Lou is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,778
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,227 Times in 1,474 Posts
Lou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

You can't blame her for getting caught up in the moment & getting carried away, trying on wedding dresses can be hypnotic. It really is a pity the shop are being such arses about the situation and spoiling the whole process for you both. I really hope you can get a compromise sorted out with them.

Quote:
View Post
The dress is really a great dress and she does like it...the thing is she has said that she really was totally caught up in the moment and in a rational situation she would not have bought it. That and their subsequent behavior towards us has totally turned us off to them!

We could take the 4600, buy her a dress, buy a suit for me, shoes, and a lot more, but for me the though of having it on me on the wedding day is a bit repulsive. Same for her
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:55
kiwiguy08's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,381
Groaned at 61 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,189 Times in 605 Posts
kiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputation
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
pressure sales, for their own reputation they really should come to a compromise. Yes, the timings do sound a bit dubious, if they are simply not backing down, turn it around ! By now your fiance probably detests anything from that store, so in-terms of the big day they cast a little shadow on the dress side of things. Bit of a gamble...but if they really have ordered it then it should be delivered as promised...if they are fibbing...well come d-day they will be in breach of the contract ;-)
Very much true. But if we call their bluff and "win" then she has no dress for the wedding! Thats why the whole issue is a little time precarious.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:57
Lou's Avatar
Lou Lou is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,778
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,227 Times in 1,474 Posts
Lou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

There is no cooling off period unless someone cold calls you at home. This also applies to cars no cooling off period there either, there was a thread on that situation on here recently.

Quote:
View Post
Somewhere in my research on this subject, I found the figure of Chf500 being the lower limit for "cooling off" and changing one`s mind about an order.

It applies to the purchase of auto`s, why not an expensive wedding gown?

Me, I would plant myself in the shop, demand the money back ... while Bridezilla cries helplessly.........making a scene for potential customers to view .....
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:57
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
Very much true. But if we call their bluff and "win" then she has no dress for the wedding! Thats why the whole issue is a little time precarious.
What about her choosing a less expensive dress in the shop and getting them to deduct her deposit against the cost of the new dress?
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10.03.2011, 14:58
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
The dress is really a great dress and she does like it...the thing is she has said that she really was totally caught up in the moment and in a rational situation she would not have bought it. That and their subsequent behavior towards us has totally turned us off to them!

We could take the 4600, buy her a dress, buy a suit for me, shoes, and a lot more, but for me the though of having it on me on the wedding day is a bit repulsive. Same for her
well, my opinion is that dont cut off the nose to spite the face ie: fighting to get the money back. You really really dont need such extra hassle of this when preparing for a wedding.

The only problem I see here is that you two are cross about their attitude when the dust has settled - thats purely based on emotions. They have every right to stick to their guns because you've signed on your dotted line despite what the laws in other countries say, recission, blah blah blah. People can moan about the lack of flexbility and get outraged but the fact is, you are in Switzerland and they are infamous for holding on to that piece of paper in many situations.

Sometimes you just got to choose your battles. I personally wouldnt fight this one but go back and negotiate (remember my suggestion of a bridezilla meltdown? ). It pays (pardon the pun) to calm down, take out the emotions and look at this from a fresh perspective to attack the problem on hand without suffering any tangible financial loss. If she can choose a cheaper dress around the 2000 CHF mark that she likes just as much, and the remaining 2600 CHF to use on your suit and other accessories. Honestly, I think they will be more likely to be amenable to this suggestion rather than giving in to what you're pushing for: a 2000 CHF in store credit. Because they will still get 4600 CHF into their tills at the end of the day. The 4600 cHF dress they claim to have ordered already, can be sold to a bride with a bigger budget.

Good luck dude. I hope you two sort this mess out soon!
__________________
Remember when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown, BUT it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and b****-slap the mother-f***er upside the head.

Last edited by summerrain; 10.03.2011 at 15:14.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank summerrain for this useful post:
  #58  
Old 10.03.2011, 15:00
kiwiguy08's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,381
Groaned at 61 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,189 Times in 605 Posts
kiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputation
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
What about her choosing a less expensive dress in the shop and getting them to deduct her deposit against the cost of the new dress?
The thing is the deposit now is irrelevant...I would almost walk away from the deposit to not have to deal with this situation. They are now requiring all the money and will go the full length to get it back. So to even get the store credit, we will have to pay 2600 chf (in addition to 2000 already paid)
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 10.03.2011, 15:01
red_conundrum's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bqoiutniw
Posts: 371
Groaned at 84 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 574 Times in 205 Posts
red_conundrum has a reputation beyond reputered_conundrum has a reputation beyond reputered_conundrum has a reputation beyond reputered_conundrum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Quote:
View Post
Very much true. But if we call their bluff and "win" then she has no dress for the wedding! Thats why the whole issue is a little time precarious.

Welcome to the world of wedding planning. I was just in your shoes too, the vendors have you and they KNOW you must kowtow to them.

In my situation, I had hired a wedding planner who had a monopoly on the venue we wanted for our wedding. She was horrible, unreliable, and basically seemed intent on wrecking our wedding plans, refusing simple requests like "we don't want a DJ" and hiring a DJ anyway, etc. Point was: I couldn't just "fire" her, because if I did, then we wouldn't have a venue. Time pressure to d-day made it worse, because you then can't find alternatives.

I feel for you and your lovely bride kiwiguy. Wedding planning/preparation sucks.

It gets better, don't worry. After the wedding day. ;P.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 10.03.2011, 15:04
kiwiguy08's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,381
Groaned at 61 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,189 Times in 605 Posts
kiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputationkiwiguy08 has an excellent reputation
Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

I think the only option now is to go there and maybe plead in the store and for her to try to cry. I think we will go there around 6 tonight to make a scene. (If anyone wants to grab some popcorn, it could be very good)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
contract law, wedding dress, zurich




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hiring a wedding dress in Zurich clarah Daily life 7 01.09.2010 23:09
Wedding dress shops in Zurich Tiabelle Family matters/health 3 19.02.2009 20:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0