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Old 10.03.2011, 15:04
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

They really have no idea of customer service do they. Does the contract state that all monies have to be paid up front? It is more normal to pay the balance once the bride has the dress in her hands.

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The thing is the deposit now is irrelevant...I would almost walk away from the deposit to not have to deal with this situation. They are now requiring all the money and will go the full length to get it back. So to even get the store credit, we will have to pay 2600 chf (in addition to 2000 already paid)
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:16
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

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I think the only option now is to go there and maybe plead in the store and for her to try to cry. I think we will go there around 6 tonight to make a scene. (If anyone wants to grab some popcorn, it could be very good)
Good luck tonight! Just one word of advice (o.k, they're two, but I think they'd be useful).

1. Ask (nicely and pleasantly and politely) to speak to a manager. A clerk won't help you. Talk to the highest person you can get at the store, someone who has real authority to make decisions. Consider making an appointment if necessary, to make sure you get the right person.

2. Be as friendly, pleasant, and cheerful as possible. If your bride is to turn on the waterworks, let her do so quietly while you present the issue as a "confusion" and "misunderstanding" and act like the "nice", friendly, conciliatory guy.

Do not get confrontational. The Swiss hate conflict and they will react badly to it.

Go in, light-heartedly, and explain that there was a confusion, that the bride would still like to buy a dress in their shop (only a different one and make sure she chooses a cheaper one) and that she just got confused about the accessories and bras. Ask, as someone else suggested above, to use the 2000 deposit on another dress.

But the key is: BE AS PLEASANT AS POSSIBLE. Most people react badly to conflict in negotiations, but the Swiss do so intensified by a factor of 10. Do not get angry, and do not cause a scene. The Swiss react badly to embarassment and hate admitting mistakes. Pretend it was all your mistake, and try to give them what they want while you get what you want. Keep it light, and be patient, you might have to return another day. But it can work and what other option do you have?

Good luck, I got my fingers crossed for you two!
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:16
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

UPDATE: I just took a much closer look at the contract

Although she did prepay 2000 CHF and it was acknowledged....she never signed the document. There is also no signature from the store. (although there is a field for both customer and Verkäufer!
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:26
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

You need some proper legal advice now on wether that is still binding, she paid a deposit & they accepted so it probably is but you may now have more leverage with them to negociate.

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UPDATE: I just took a much closer look at the contract

Although she did prepay 2000 CHF and it was acknowledged....she never signed the document. There is also no signature from the store. (although there is a field for both customer and Verkäufer!
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:27
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

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UPDATE: I just took a much closer look at the contract

Although she did prepay 2000 CHF and it was acknowledged....she never signed the document. There is also no signature from the store. (although there is a field for both customer and Verkäufer!

I don't think that matters since the fact that your bride disembursed 2000CHF by way of a deposit implies consent and in most countries there are such things as legally binding verbal contracts.

(Again, with my apologies to FrankS who appears to know the Swiss law more than me if I happen to be wrong, this is the way it works in most other countries, but Switzerland is clearly, uh..."exceptional").
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:33
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

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I don't think that matters since the fact that your bride disembursed 2000CHF by way of a deposit implies consent and in most countries there are such things as legally binding verbal contracts.
This is correct. A contract is simply a mutual agreement of any kind, the written form is only there to facilitate legal issues. And I am sure there are signatures on the copy of the contract that the store kept.
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:41
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Would it make a difference that the money used to pay the deposit and eventually the dress came from an account that was a joint account that was in both of our names.

From what I am told at least for people who are married with a joint account, a contract can be voided if a party is not in agreement with the purchase
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:43
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

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I think the only option now is to go there and maybe plead in the store and for her to try to cry. I think we will go there around 6 tonight to make a scene. (If anyone wants to grab some popcorn, it could be very good)
Can you not go at a time when there will be more customers in the shop? Loud, but polite complaint, (and spelling out of every sorry detail) coupled with tears could well be the clincher but it does need an audience ...
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:45
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

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Would it make a difference that the money used to pay the deposit and eventually the dress came from an account that was a joint account that was in both of our names.
no.

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From what I am told at least for people who are married with a joint account, a contract can be voided if a party is not in agreement with the purchase
That might be the case if one party added a mortgage or another bank product to the account, but definitely not if someone goes shopping with a shared bank card. You might however be able to sue your fiancee.
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:46
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

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Would it make a difference that the money used to pay the deposit and eventually the dress came from an account that was a joint account that was in both of our names.

From what I am told at least for people who are married with a joint account, a contract can be voided if a party is not in agreement with the purchase

Dude, what you need is proper legal advice, not advice from random people on the internet.

If you intend to pursue this on legal grounds, do it right (i.e. get a lawyer or even just ask for a 1 hour consultation). If not, try to plead with the dress people and see what happens. Stressing about it and other "what ifs" won't give you any solutions, just more stress, which is probably something you don't need more of right before your wedding.
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:47
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

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Can you not go at a time when there will be more customers in the shop?
or can't you just accept that no one else but your fiancee is liable for her own stupidity?
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  #72  
Old 10.03.2011, 15:48
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

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Would it make a difference that the money used to pay the deposit and eventually the dress came from an account that was a joint account that was in both of our names.

From what I am told at least for people who are married with a joint account, a contract can be voided if a party is not in agreement with the purchase
ooooerr...if thats the case, there are loads of things that my other half has bought that I would love to void, and probably vice versa.
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  #73  
Old 10.03.2011, 15:49
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Actually it is the other way around. When married your partner can take out or ammend a contract in your name and you can be liable for it. I started a thread on here a couple years ago on this subject when my husband inadvertantly changed a contract in my name without my knowledge, I did not think it legal but it was confirmed that this is legally binding.

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From what I am told at least for people who are married with a joint account, a contract can be voided if a party is not in agreement with the purchase

Last edited by Lou; 10.03.2011 at 16:04.
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  #74  
Old 10.03.2011, 16:04
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

This is too late for you to do today, but perhaps in the future or for someone else it's good to know that there are certain times a week througout Switzerland where you can get free legal advice. It's just an initial meeting but it could tell you if you have a shot to fight it and if it's worth pursuing.

http://www.swisslawyers.com/de/02_re...sen.htm#link22

in german it's called unentgeltliche rechtsberatung, free legal advice.
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Old 10.03.2011, 16:15
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/220/a227a.html

So, I have decided I am going to fight this to the end, even if i lose the money

We have found a law that I think applies to this: According to the law stated on the swiss website that there is a legal right within 7 days to cancel the contract by the purchasing party. Also the right to cancel the contract and several other points must be written on the contract, otherwise the contract is not valid!

Art. 227a1

II. Der Vorauszahlungsvertrag
1. Begriff, Form und Inhalt
1 Beim Kauf mit ratenweiser Vorauszahlung verpflichtet sich der Käufer, den Kaufpreis für eine bewegliche Sache zum voraus in Teilzahlungen zu entrichten, und der Verkäufer, die Sache dem Käufer nach der Zahlung des Kaufpreises zu übergeben.
2 Der Vorauszahlungsvertrag ist nur gültig, wenn er in schriftlicher Form abgeschlossen wird und folgende Angaben enthält:
1.den Namen und den Wohnsitz der Parteien;
2.den Gegenstand des Kaufes;
3.die Gesamtforderung des Verkäufers;
4.die Zahl, die Höhe und die Fälligkeit der Vorauszahlungen sowie die Vertragsdauer;
5.die zur Entgegennahme der Vorauszahlungen befugte Bank;
6.den dem Käufer geschuldeten Zins;
7.2das Recht des Käufers, innert sieben Tagen den Verzicht auf den Vertragsabschluss zu erklären;
8.das Recht des Käufers, den Vertrag zu kündigen, sowie das dabei zu zahlende Reugeld;
9.den Ort und das Datum der Vertragsunterzeichnung.
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Old 10.03.2011, 16:19
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

The legal German quoted is beyond me but I just wanted to ask is it worth fighting? Please don't get into a situation where this is the lasting memory of your wedding. If your girlfriend loves the dress then just buy it if you are prepared to lose the money anyway. Make you special day about more than this. Wishing you all the best.

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http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/220/a227a.html

So, I have decided I am going to fight this to the end, even if i lose the money

We have found a law that I think applies to this: According to the law stated on the swiss website that there is a legal right within 7 days to cancel the contract by the purchasing party. Also the right to cancel the contract and several other points must be written on the contract, otherwise the contract is not valid!

Art. 227a1

II. Der Vorauszahlungsvertrag
1. Begriff, Form und Inhalt
1 Beim Kauf mit ratenweiser Vorauszahlung verpflichtet sich der Käufer, den Kaufpreis für eine bewegliche Sache zum voraus in Teilzahlungen zu entrichten, und der Verkäufer, die Sache dem Käufer nach der Zahlung des Kaufpreises zu übergeben.
2 Der Vorauszahlungsvertrag ist nur gültig, wenn er in schriftlicher Form abgeschlossen wird und folgende Angaben enthält:
1.den Namen und den Wohnsitz der Parteien;2.den Gegenstand des Kaufes;3.die Gesamtforderung des Verkäufers;4.die Zahl, die Höhe und die Fälligkeit der Vorauszahlungen sowie die Vertragsdauer;5.die zur Entgegennahme der Vorauszahlungen befugte Bank;6.den dem Käufer geschuldeten Zins;7.2das Recht des Käufers, innert sieben Tagen den Verzicht auf den Vertragsabschluss zu erklären;8.das Recht des Käufers, den Vertrag zu kündigen, sowie das dabei zu zahlende Reugeld;9.den Ort und das Datum der Vertragsunterzeichnung.
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Old 10.03.2011, 16:22
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

A Vorauszahlungsvertrag is a kind of deferred payment credit. Not exactly what you have in your case.
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Old 10.03.2011, 16:24
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

Is the store part of a group? Is there a head office where there might be somebody who actually cares about the store's reputation?
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Old 10.03.2011, 16:56
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

It is part of a group with several stores. However, the one in zurich is the main one. We have asked to speak to a higher up but both times were refuse by the store manager
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Old 10.03.2011, 17:39
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Re: Problem with a wedding dress store Zurich

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It is part of a group with several stores. However, the one in zurich is the main one. We have asked to speak to a higher up but both times were refuse by the store manager
You're not getting results because you're not using the proper channels.

Write a letter, addressed to the general manager explaining the situation. Send it by registered post. Keep the tone of the letter cordial, and offer a mutually acceptable proposed solution (my feeling from your posts is that you two have not clarified what that is. What do you really want out of this? 2k store credit towards another dress? Full refund minus a 200 CHF penalty? A lawsuit? What??).

You will accomplish nothing by talking to store clerks. They are not interested in you as a person and their only goal is to make their comission. Most Swiss storeclerks and customer service view the customer as a box to tick, a nuisance to get rid of.

You need to get to someone who cares. Look up the general manager's contact info on the internet if you have to. Ask for his/her name and then trawl the directories. If you're going to spend energy doing this, then do it right and don't waste your time in unproductive things that generate gratuituious stress like talking to store clerks.

Another thought. Do you know the name of the first person who agreed to your bride's request and offered the gift credit? Try to talk to that person again and get that person to help you. If this person is too low on the command chain, get this person to get you to a manager who can make a decision in your favor. But you need to win people here. YOu will accomplish nothing by being confrontational or waste time trying to win over people who don't have the power to help you.

Key point: if you're going to go the personal way, you have to be extremely pleasant and win sympathy. In order to win sympathy, you have to give it. How you ask to speak to a store manager matters to the lowly salesclerk, because they will be terrified of you getting them into trouble. Be friendly towards them an put yourself in their shoes. It will require a lot of diplomacy. Consider bringing a friend to do the work for you if it seems like it will be a challenge, ideally someone who speaks Swiss German, but who is emotionally sympathetic with you (i.e. take a close friend, don't take a Swiss coworker who will see this as an intrusion on his time).

And last key point: you have to tell the people what you want. Be clear. What would you like for them to do? What do you want the outcome to be? And is it reasonable for both parties? What would be acceptable and what wouldn't? Then negotiate from there.
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