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Old 18.03.2011, 10:23
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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Other than the post that implied Switzerland is like Yorkshire in the 1720s, has there been a lot of Swiss-bashing by mods?
I genuinely don't think Yorkshire in the 1720s is a bad thing: sure, the racism thing is a big negative, but Yorkshire then was a place of simple, family values, low crime rate, societal respect, beautiful, unpolluted vistas, organic food and natural farming practices and many other things, all of which are found in Switzerland too. I stand by the comparison.
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  #362  
Old 18.03.2011, 10:27
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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I genuinely don't think Yorkshire in the 1720s is a bad thing: sure, the racism thing is a big negative, but Yorkshire then was a place of simple, family values, low crime rate, societal respect, beautiful, unpolluted vistas, organic food and natural farming practices and many other things, all of which are found in Switzerland too. I stand by the comparison.
If it quacks, you call it a duck

If it treats coloured people negatively based solely on the colour of their skin, you call it racist.
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  #363  
Old 18.03.2011, 10:27
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Re: Damn I hate this country

How anyone could construe a favourable comparison with Yorkshire (God's own country) as a criticism is beyond me.

Unless... you're anti-Yorkshire!

I've a some Basler friends. They often refer negatively to "The Swiss". I guess the other cantons will just have to invade or something.
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  #364  
Old 18.03.2011, 12:02
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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How anyone could construe a favourable comparison with Yorkshire (God's own country) as a criticism is beyond me.
Uh, well, since economisto made the comparison to Yorkshire in reference to racism in the country, I wouldn't say a favourable comparison was made.

I do understand it as a joke, but let's not try to hide the fact that what was said could be considered offensive by some.

Anyway I also noted the cashier incident was not nice, but this kind of racism happens everywhere also in 21st century Yorkshire so I'm not sure why the 1720 date was given.
  #365  
Old 18.03.2011, 12:07
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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I'm not sure why the 1720 date was given.
Maybe because Switzerland is closer to 1720 Yorkshire than 2011 Yorkshire?
  #366  
Old 18.03.2011, 12:11
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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Uh, well, since economisto made the comparison to Yorkshire in reference to racism in the country, I wouldn't say a favourable comparison was made.

I do understand it as a joke, but let's not try to hide the fact that what was said could be considered offensive by some.

Anyway I also noted the cashier incident was not nice, but this kind of racism happens everywhere also in 21st century Yorkshire so I'm not sure why the 1720 date was given.
This isn't exactly a fluffy forum which everyone should think before posting something in order to not offend anyone. People have opinions. Some opinions are offensive. Some things people type can be viewed as being offensive.

Deal with it.

This kind of racism happens everywhere...but not in such an obvious form.

Last edited by porsch1909; 18.03.2011 at 12:28.
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  #367  
Old 18.03.2011, 12:20
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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This kind of racism happens everywhere...but not in such an obvious form.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have experienced worse in some countries (France, UK, southern and middle US). Switzerland has not been any worse or more "obvious".
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Old 18.03.2011, 12:23
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have experienced worse in some countries (France, UK, southern and middle US). Switzerland has not been any worse or more "obvious".

I can only compare the UK (In glasgow mostly ) with Switzerland. And being of South Asian origin I have found Switzerland in general to be less tolerant and have more subtle and not so subtle racism.
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Old 18.03.2011, 12:43
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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I can only compare the UK (In glasgow mostly ) with Switzerland. And being of South Asian origin I have found Switzerland in general to be less tolerant and have more subtle and not so subtle racism.
I've lived in Newcastle Upon Tyne, Bath, Surrey, Essex, Yorkshire and the Midlands, and find the same. I've encountered more casual racism here. It's not something that bothers me a great deal, it's just a bit sad. (When I've commented on it before, I've been groaned and told this is not the case, which is a bit odd).

What's interesting is that we've also experienced more casual racism from British expats, than we ever experienced from the Brits in the UK.
  #370  
Old 18.03.2011, 12:56
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Re: Damn I hate this country

Totally agree that UK in general is much more tolerant than CH. France is btw even more racist overall than CH.

Certainly in France there are lots of Brits who have 'fled' from a changing Britain, and constantly going on about 'Blighty' having gone to the dogs (NOT my words or sentiments btw) - and harking to Ye Olde Britain (Anglo-Saxon) trying to recapture it in rural France. Maybe this is happening here too - hence less than tolerant views from SOME ex-pats here.

But ffs - the world is imploding around us- and it seems Britain is now almost at the brink of a war in the middle-east which may turn out to be the beginning of the end, should Iran and Israel get involved. What are we arguing about here.
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  #371  
Old 18.03.2011, 12:59
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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Again, a generalization. Threads like this one really don't help the image of foreigners some of the people in Switzerland have.


Now you are suggesting that EF influences how the Swiss populace views auslanders.

C'mon, you're taking the piss now.

The "auslander" tag (and its connotations) and expressions of racism, from minor to major, were alive and well pre-EF, and it hasn't changed much post the creation of EF.

You're delusional if you think EF has an influence in this beyond the small group of Swiss who contribute here (a fair few of which appear to have dual nationalities anyway).

The seminal work in this area is the Scheizermacher comedy film. By all accounts (from the Swiss I've spoken to) things haven't changed much in rural CH, outside the sphere of influence of the relatively more progressive main cities.
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  #372  
Old 18.03.2011, 13:30
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Re: Damn I hate this country

Damn, Having been here for almost 3 years and a half, I have "love and hate relationship" with this country. I love landscape, activities, winter provided that there is snow to go skiing (otherwise I hate this horrible indecisive weather). Like everyone else I have ups and downs.

If I had to rant, it would be absolutely mediocre health services and it has been based on not only my own but many others folks experience whom I know and they know what they are talking about. Second comes, the disgusting revenue making schemes like putting cameras in 50kmh zones and if you drive slightly above 60kmh you get hefty fine of CHF250 in absolutely empty street where there is no risk of accident. Social life doesn't come to you easily and it can be quite depressive for shy and lonely folks. In order to have fun and comparable life style to what we are used to in "New World", you would have to make more than average local income. Awefully many customer services absolutely morbid without smile on face and dedication of staff. It would have made my day and many others, if friendly politness and helpfulness come free of charge. The list of rants could be long but there are positive aspects of life here as well.

Like others observed, it takes long time to get integrated and adapted to the Swiss life, much longer than anywhere that I have been to, but it is the culture cultivated throughout decades and as a foreigner you just either will fit in or stay miserable for the rest of your life here.

If you play with the rules you will live a relatively comfortable lifestyle but do not expect "ahh's and ohh's" out of it. I do not dream of same kind of elation and passion for life as I would have gotten in gorgeous South Africa but at least it is safe here, hey! Otherwise, just turn on the international TV and news about volcanoes eruption, tsunamis and earthquakes and it will make you appreciate reality of life and also your location better. Weigh cons and pros - the door is always open!
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  #373  
Old 18.03.2011, 13:33
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Re: Damn I hate this country

Freudian slip?
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  #374  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:03
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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Now you are suggesting that EF influences how the Swiss populace views auslanders.

C'mon, you're taking the piss now.

The "auslander" tag (and its connotations) and expressions of racism, from minor to major, were alive and well pre-EF, and it hasn't changed much post the creation of EF.
Now you're just being a troll. I said "threads like this one", I didn't say EF in general. Threads like this one definitely help shape the opinion about foreigners in this country. They're not the reason for it, but they're fueling it.

You do realize that some members here are being at least as racist as some of the Swiss who dislike "Ausländer"?
  #375  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:04
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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it would be absolutely mediocre health services
You mean the ones that prompt Steve Jobs and the like to come to Switzerland for treatment?
  #376  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:19
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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Now you're just being a troll. I said "threads like this one", I didn't say EF in general. Threads like this one definitely help shape the opinion about foreigners in this country. They're not the reason for it, but they're fueling it.


Ha! that makes it worse. So it isn't just EF in particular, it is a particular thread within the hundreds of threads created daily...

Call me a Troll if you will. Personally, I call it a difference of opinion - something you can't seem to accept - is anything I've written in my replies to you incorrect?

Edit:

...and on a technicality, if "threads like this one" influence the Swiss populace, said threads being a part of EF, means that EF influences the Swiss populace too by implication. Never mind, hey?

Either way, I don't believe that "threads like this" on EF do influence the larger Swiss collective's thinking, in any way, shape or form.

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Freudian slip?
Ooops. No I just can't type...
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  #377  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:26
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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You mean the ones that prompt Steve Jobs and the like to come to Switzerland for treatment?
No, I mean average bread winner seeking medical consultation or regular check up. They will do some kind of tests, won't find anything and call you half a year later to show up for another set of tests to be sure. Or they will tell you it's just the weather being source of all evil. Last time I had gastric virus doctor asked me if I wanted tests to be taken or not. I told him you are the man (to tell me)! I just sucked it up and two days later I was fine using home medicine and enduring one sleepless night! This is trivial compare to more serious stuff like little babies being notoriously sick and parents seeking medical treatment with no effect. There are many similar complains. Simply stopped seeking treatment here and as formality treat medical aid to be pure social system contribution.
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Last edited by jacek; 18.03.2011 at 14:38.
  #378  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:52
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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I can only compare the UK (In glasgow mostly ) with Switzerland. And being of South Asian origin I have found Switzerland in general to be less tolerant and have more subtle and not so subtle racism.
Perhaps I have been spared the worst of Swiss racism because I live in Romandie and work with colleagues mainly in large cities (Zürich and Bern).

BTW I believe the comparison of Switzerland to Yorkshire in 2011 to be much more appropriate than 1720. Both had to deal recently with a large number of people who are "different" (Kosovars for CH, South Asians for Yorkshire). There has no doubt been bumps in the road for both countries. Fortunately CH has not had riots yet!
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Old 18.03.2011, 16:10
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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The "auslander" tag (and its connotations) and expressions of racism, from minor to major, were alive and well pre-EF, and it hasn't changed much post the creation of EF.

OT question: IMHO, there is no direct connotation to the term "ausländer". The connotation comes (IMHO) from the context or prononciation etc.

"Er ist ein Ausländer" in itself is a completely neutral statement of fact, very much the same as its English translation "he is a foreigner".

I'd like to know where the anglos obsession with that term comes from, as it is one of the very few german expressions that are consistently used on english speaking forums?
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Old 18.03.2011, 16:14
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Re: Damn I hate this country

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OT question: IMHO, there is no direct connotation to the term "ausländer". The connotation comes (IMHO) from the context or prononciation etc.

"Er ist ein Ausländer" in itself is a completely neutral statement of fact, very much the same as its English translation "he is a foreigner".

I'd like to know where the anglos obsession with that term comes from, as it is one of the very few german expressions that are consistently used on english speaking forums?
Because, here it is locally used a lot. Depending on the context, it can be degrading (often), neutral or positive (mainly because being Swiss can be viewed as negativ as well in the same context).
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