It is TOTAL BS or stupidity that someone is in Switzerland with no Option to leave. There are no Walls to keep anybody here. The Simple Truth is that your are here because it is better here than any other Place you could be. You are here out of your own Choice and freewill. If you do Not See that, the Problem is Not with this Country, but your own ignorance. I understand how Feigning to Be victimized by fate is an easy Way to Not deal with Reality, but Why Air one's ignorance and mental incompetence on an Internet Forum.
Why can't people both have nowhere better to be AND hate it at the same time?
Just because the alternatives are worse in some fundamental way does not mean people can't hate the way most things are. It's worth putting up with difference but not if we can't complain about it.
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Indeed. The immigration in Basel used to be called the "Fremdenpolizei", where we had to report and get registered. After a session there you tended to feel a little de-humanised. A bit like a visit to Lubyanka... although clearly not.
They've humanised the place in a revamp a few years ago and it is much more open and welcoming now. As I said, I'm lucky to have landed in Basel.
There was something similar in the Netherlands until there were sooo many complaints they closed the who foreign police, I called them once to see if I could get a visa to travel for christmas while I waited for my residence permit (something that is normal and that is done) and they yelled at me and told me that I should be thankful I was there instead of Peru (WTF)..of course 2 weeks after I got my visa and they desintegrated in 3 months...racism happens everywhere unfortunately
Why can't people both have nowhere better to be AND hate it at the same time?
Just because the alternatives are worse in some fundamental way does not mean people can't hate the way most things are. It's worth putting up with difference but not if we can't complain about it.
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People certainly can, and do. It is a mental attitude and decision to be miserable. People love to chose to be miserable. But I don't think anyone should expect or deserve sympathy for it. Also, it is a cheap shot to point to some object of misery while deriding it. Switzerland is a benign factor in anybody's misery. A lot of people are quite happy to be here, so it cant' be Switzerland's fault. Its the idiot who makes oneself miserable and blames something else for it.
Last edited by Phos; 18.03.2011 at 19:47.
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Yeap, one good thing about new era of globalization and globetrotting is that one can live carelessly like many expats do. Surely, there are multiple inconveniences in forms of cultural and lingual barriers, issues with integrating and so on and so forth but hell at least politics does not concern me much and I don't have to go to the polls. I didn't buy time share there and I only can stay as long as I would fancy to
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Yeap, one good thing about new era of globalization and globetrotting is that one can live carelessly like many expats do.
One would think that is a marvelous privilege, right? But no. Apparently, it can cause many to lose their sense of bearing, purpose and identity. It can also highlight their own insignificance and importance in the whole scheme of things. This is probably what is bothering a lot of people here. In the whole scheme of things, they are not that important here, so it crushes their egos. On the other hand, those whose egos are not overblown find the experience liberating.
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Actually I really like this country, its health care the fact that you are sent a bill 30 days after the delivery date, my immediate neighbours and surrounding ones are lovely. There's only one person I've come across in my neighbourhood that I've found to be surly and she is not Swiss. I'm beginning to think that I live in a parallel universe
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One would think that is a marvelous privilege, right? But no. Apparently, it can cause many to lose their sense of bearing, purpose and identity. It can also highlight their own insignificance and importance in the whole scheme of things. This is probably what is bothering a lot of people here. In the whole scheme of things, they are not that important here, so it crushes their egos. On the other hand, those whose egos are not overblown find the experience liberating.
On the conrary, my experience is different. I can focus more on work and career, my beloved hobbies and save some money without worrying that I am stuck in one place and need to invest in property or make steadfastly long term resolutions. You do not need to lose sense of self importance and still do not forget where you come from. I'm proud of who I'm and view being an expat as another valuable experience in life. When one day I come back home I will see the things from different prospective and maybe contribute there more because that one extra experience gained in the lifetime. In the meantime I can afford being miserable git just for time being, still bearing in mind broad picture and plan for future while I'm here still undisturbed
On the conrary, my experience is different. I can focus more on work and career, my beloved hobbies and save money without worrying that I am stuck in the place and need to invest in property or make steadfastly long term resolutions. You do not need to loose self importance and still do not forget where you come from. I'm proud who I'm and view being an expat as another valuable experience in life. When one day I come back home I will see the things from different prospective and maybe contribute there more because that one extra experience gained in the lifetime. In the meantime I can afford being miserable git just for time being, still bearing in mind wide picture and plan for future while I'm here undisturbed
Absolutely. Some people are more grounded than others simply because they are looking at the right things. Yet, some don't know the right things anymore.
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Absolutely. Some people are more grounded than others simply because they are looking at the right things. Yet, some don't know the right things anymore.
Don't forget that this country is full of "smart asses" and well educated folks lured by decent salaries and lifestyle. So to say, the best material one can import in the world. If you get challenged, you face the smart and clever kind, so the loss is in a good style. If you can win, you are a champ who grew a thick skin. And I'm not talking about boxing ring fight, but e.g. corporate world where one battles swift intellect and snide remarks. This is valuable experience, I tell ya
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People certainly can, and do. It is a mental attitude and decision to be miserable. People love to chose to be miserable. But I don't think anyone should expect or deserve sympathy for it. Also, it is a cheap shot to point to some object of misery while deriding it. Switzerland is a benign factor in anybody's misery. A lot of people are quite happy to be here, so it cant' be Switzerland's fault. Its the idiot who makes oneself miserable and blame something else for it.
Nobody chooses to be miserable. They make choices that make them miserable. Important distinction. This fuzzy thinking is responsible for so much conflict on EF.
People should expect sympathy when appropriate, but they should understand when they don't get it. People should not deserve sympathy? What does that mean? I also don't understand the "point and deride sentence." Too ambiguous.
Other people's contentment or happiness is irrelevant to non other people. "if many people are happy then it's not switzerland's fault that some aren't" is a false conditional statement. Again, some or many people are unhappy here but would be "worse off" in some important way elsewhere, in areas such as personal and environmental safety, $$$, or whatever.
It's implicitly understood (or should be), but it's also pointed out unnecessarily quite often that what's better is relative. People are only complaining about difference. The only real hatred here is from the people who hate complainers. But Switzerland is bullying them, with their (only) four choices of potato chips, speeding finesesness, foreign languagesness, smoking on platformness, etc.
LOL....I felt the same way couple of times here (now wait a sec...I remember couple of times I felt the same way in my homecountry..?!) ....I don't know, maybe is just a phase? Let's wait for the summer or at least the spring to come and then please, do tellus about your feelings..
I am getting Horny,You ask I take this as being healthy
(1) 'Foreigner' is an everyday word; all of us have referred to so many people as 'foreigners' so many times that it's worn the word smooth, far as we are concerned. 'Ausländer' is a new acquisition; worse, it's Their name for Us. All politics is personal - except when it's tribal.
(2) Etymology. 'Ausländer' might mean 'foreigner' but it's not cognate to 'foreigner'. Ausländer, jemand von Ausland, outlandish, outsider. Ausländerausweis = 'outsider's papers'. To be honest if you called us 'Fremden' it would probably go down better, even though that's the harsher of the two in German.
Our problem, not yours - but you did ask.
Lets phrase e new therm for auslaender (I am one here in Canada "Foreigner")" Nicht Schweizer "PM me if you don`t like it I send you some Kleenex. I hardly ever see any Canadian/US here complaining ,Must be a UK thing Just a thougt
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I think the problem is that Switzerland is perfect for a Swiss person. One that has planned ahead, went to Gymnasium or did an apprenticeship (sp?) at 16 and then went on to do further education or university etc... meaning a person who has all the right certificates/diplomas to prove his worth, because you are simply nothing without those things. To prove my point, one of the first questions I always get asked by people I meet is "What is your profession/what are you?"... And who wants to start a three-year-long underpaid apprenticeship when he/she is not between 16-19, for a job which in a lot of cases you could do in other countries with no education at all? I understand why the Swiss have high standards, but sometimes I think it's a bit ridiculous.
To all the Swiss on the forum, please try to understand that it is not easy to start out in Switzerland if you did not grow up here... But I'm sure that to most Swiss people it is a wonderful/the best country to live in.
And please, I think we all know what Swiss people think of "Auslaender"... you don't have to remind us.
Spent a whole week in brussels, and I am glad to be back in Switzerland and to live in Switzerland. Professionaly I was given a lot of opportunities and chances even though I'm a foreigner (but speaking fluently french and german). I had swiss and foreigners as bosses in Switzerland. There is only one former boss who still send me "happy birthday" SMS 5 years after leaving the company, and he is Swiss. I love it so much here that I applied last year for citizenship and i foresee to get involved in political activities. Most swiss people are nice, there are of course @ssholes and I'm going to fight them politically. Switzerland is not the perfect country, but i haven't found a better one so far.
Rant over
__________________ Resist, support, donate: ACLU They tried to bury us, they did not know that we are seeds (Mexican proverb)
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Yes, but as Italy itself is only 150 years old (yesterday), that means it's been part of Italy for most of the time Italy has been Italy!
Tom
The SüD-TIROL has placed Italy nicely in the Skiing business, but otherwise, this Germanic valley has remained an outsider. None of them of course is an "Italiano Vero" as outlined here :
neither will anyone of them have THIS feeling of the Italianita
Don't forget that this country is full of "smart asses" and well educated folks lured by decent salaries and lifestyle. So to say, the best material one can import in the world. If you get challenged, you face the smart and clever kind, so the loss is in a good style. If you can win, you are a champ who grew a thick skin. And I'm not talking about boxing ring fight, but e.g. corporate world where one battles swift intellect and snide remarks. This is valuable experience, I tell ya
One can be technically brilliant, yet be an emotional moron. case in point:
Nobody chooses to be miserable. They make choices that make them miserable. Important distinction. This fuzzy thinking is responsible for so much conflict on EF.
People should expect sympathy when appropriate, but they should understand when they don't get it. People should not deserve sympathy? What does that mean? I also don't understand the "point and deride sentence." Too ambiguous.
Other people's contentment or happiness is irrelevant to non other people. "if many people are happy then it's not switzerland's fault that some aren't" is a false conditional statement. Again, some or many people are unhappy here but would be "worse off" in some important way elsewhere, in areas such as personal and environmental safety, $$$, or whatever.
It's implicitly understood (or should be), but it's also pointed out unnecessarily quite often that what's better is relative. People are only complaining about difference. The only real hatred here is from the people who hate complainers. But Switzerland is bullying them, with their (only) four choices of potato chips, speeding finesesness, foreign languagesness, smoking on platformness, etc.
I wrote this upside down.
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That disturbs me, too - however, you'll have to realize that in the Basel area, by far most cashiers at supermarkets, restaurant staff etc. are French commuters. That might not be immediately visible because they speak a German dialect in Alsace.
But possibly not so much in the corner where he resides ! They possibly are real genuine Baaaaslers who regard him as an Elsäässer who has been on the Seychelles a bit long
The SüD-TIROL has placed Italy nicely in the Skiing business, but otherwise, this Germanic valley has remained an outsider. None of them of course is an "Italiano Vero" as outlined here :
neither will anyone of them have THIS feeling of the Italianita
I often do overnight trips to Alto-Adige or Val Gardena. Ok, they are rough, 10 passes or so (and I always figure 1 hour/pass, even when on my fastest bike, doesn't change much), so 500km or so.
My nephew from Vermont has come over a few times, I lend him one of my bikes. Last time he was quite surprised that we spoke German in Italy (just past Merano, heading up the Jaufenpass), and that the pasta was crap!
Another time, I met up with a friend from Texas in Ortisei, then we rode over to Cortina d'Ampezzo. When we stopped for lunch, first thing I did was ask the waiter what language he spoke. He said 'Italian'.
My friend asked why I'd ask someone in Italy what language they spoke. I responded "well, when I stopped for gas in Ortesei and asked the same, the guy said 'Ladino, but German is OK' (can't recall if he said it in German or Ladino, Ladino is similar to Rumantsch)
Anyway, I try and adapt to wherever I am, and speak whatever they want to speak.
)..of course 2 weeks after I got my visa and they desintegrated in 3 months...racism happens everywhere unfortunately 
You ask
Just a thougt
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