It sounds awful to me. I was married at 21, and our first kid turned up a year later. I really don't feel I've missed out. Especially now I'm still relatively young, and I'm not tied to the home like most other couples my age with kids.

I had no problems getting pregnant with my 3 when I was young and have to confess that I was unaware at the time of how lucky I was and the heartache that some go through

But I have experienced the other side of this with my goddaughter who had decided to have her career first and in her mid 30s decided it was time for her much wanted family.
She had to endure 3 IVF rounds before finally conceiving last year. her baby was sadly stillborn at 32 weeks.

She had just finished another IVF treatment and told me that the 2 embryos seem to have taken.
She is always in my thoughts and I pray that all will go well.

After seeing what she and so many others go through I consider myself so lucky..

OP: If chain smoking, taking drugs and drinking excessively reduce the chances of conceiving, how come there are not fewer chavs in the world?

Cheers,
Nick

Most sixteen year olds are pretty fertile.

1) if the couple are looking for whose fault it is, they are not ready for the emotional turmoil of ivf/icsi.
2) if they consult a professional the first questions concern the raised so called failures of the prospective parents to avoid the massive emotional swings of hope and then disappointment involved in the process
3)there is no consolation in the idea that if they stop worrying it will somehow happen
4) the only positive thing that comes from this process that in reality only has a 20 pxt chance of success is that it makes the couple stronger
5) nobody undergoes an icsi procedure in this country without a genetic test to avoid a potential disaster

Those that choose to undergo several treatments should never be confused with wannabes. Their commitment to parenthood is undeniable.

Fixed that for ya

Hi Carlos,
You need to grab hold of your hair and pull your head firmly out of your arse. That is the most insesitive post I have ever seen. well done on your 3 kids mate but it is not so easy for others. Rant as much as you like but making babies is NOT THAT EASY. I have 2 boys after 3 unsucsessful IVF tries ( on the Norwegian Health System) not your NHS. Mate do a little research before you piss off the world.
Cheers B

I don't think he is talking about people like you who had to deal with what you dealt....

It was pretty clear to me that the ones he talks about are a couple who do nothing to help themselves and think it should be that easy. And everybody agreed that it isn'r easy.

The woman is under eating, drinks, smokes and doesn't do anything to be healthy for the futur child. The husband may not be better and the results are there to show nothing (since all that time no baby)

It this particular case it is a couple who doesn't do what they should do to get optimal results.

It is no way that someone here will say that every couples who can't conceive are not doing the rights steps, etc. It is a very difficult situation for so many of them and no matter how much they try (change in diets, sports, informations, sex everyday, legs up, put cold, put warm, don't take warm shower, everything really) it won't work. And those are really dealing with a difficult time and we are all feeling for them.

Carlos's point was about some other kind of people...

This shouldhelp you find something more insensitive.
http://www.englishforum.ch/search.php

It is a sensitive subject but it can be very difficult to tell people that you really care about that they are doing something wrong when it is so obvious to you and to others. On one hand, you feel that if you can't tell them then who on earth can but on the other hand, you don't want to hurt their feelings and/or alienate them. In the end you do nothing which can be incredibly frustrating.

I really think Carlos was just venting his frustration on the complaints corner of this thread.

My wife and I have friends who were trying for a baby and were in the same sort of situation. We feel incredibly sorry for them. The woman needed to gain a fair bit of weight, cut down on the copious amounts of coffee and give up on the chain smoking. We said nothing.

It is interesting to note that being significantly overweight also is a great 'handicap' in getting pregnant. But you are right Tom, unless you are very very close to people, it is best to keep stum, however frustrating. Some of our friends (both in their 40s) tried for years, then had IVF (privately) 3 times. The Consultant then told her it was not worth trying again as she was overweight. She was really upset, as he had never said anything to her about this at all in the 10 years or so he treated her. She said had she been told it would make a difference, she would have defo made a big effort to shed some weight to increase her chances. By then she was nearly 50. Fortunately the Laws about adopting changed in the UK and they were able to adopt sibblings despite being 50+ and they are all very happy.

I think you can be extremely close but still have to keep quiet with regards to unhealthy live-style in the ones you love. Even being incredibly tactful can be misconstrued.

the over expensive home tests aint helping either..as when ur trying to conceive..u feel like taking a test every month, atleast. And everytime my period is late, each day of waiting im tempted to test again.

i also feel like venting here...im more than 10 days late (in addition to other "signs") and still no positive!


sche!zze!

The Old Testament has a few very good logical points about living.
This subject too is addressed.
It says (if I remember correctly, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that a man should not "know" his wife during her menstruation and for 1 week afterwards.

Now make the calculation.... 1 week of menstruation + 1 week of abstinence = 14 days, middle of the month for the lady (hence when she is at the height of her fertility)

2 weeks without for the gent (no explanations needed)

Result: creates the correct parameters for a conception.

OK, I've not read all these replies, but to be fair though, most of us (women especially) have had it absolutely drummed into us from a very early age that if we have sex [at all - ever!] we must use contraceptives if we don't want to get pregnant. So, then conversely when you want to get pregnant we assume that you stop using contraceptives, carry on as normal and hey presto you will get pregnant.

That might be right when you're 16 and at it like a rabbit, but for your average 30-something having sex once a week - well that's just not going to do it.

It took us about 5 unsuccessful months before we cottoned on and did some research on it, but actually I never really knew all that much about cycles and when you're fertile and when not. I was actually pretty shocked about the facts of how to get pregnant - and that you really can't get pregnant on most days of the month. And they never tell you any of this in school at all (at least not when I was young) - we were told all sperm meets egg and about periods and contraception. Sex education is all geared towards making sure you don't get pregnant after all!

Some friends of ours were trying for over a year for their first child - both were in their 30s, they saw specialists and everything and nobody could find any issues. They are both pretty "normal" - not smokers or over/under weight or grossly unhealthy in their lifestyles. In the end they did conceive naturally - and then 18 months later produced a second child - and now they are expecting a third! And my friend admitted in the end that she finally realised, after over a year of heartache, that they just weren't having enough sex! She thought once or twice a month would do it. Err, noooo.

It seems to me a real shame that it's such a taboo subject, it would probably help a lot of people if we could just be honest about it all.

Sometimes these things are just meant to be and, as much as you want children, there maybe a reason why this is not happening.

Observations within my own field of experience: Couple A who had problems conceiving split up after 5 years together but within 3 years both had children with other partners. Guess they were just not meant to be together for life.

Couple B: Tried long and hard for many years and ended up with a mentally handicapped daughter after IVF and who now lives in a home
Sometimes nature really does know best and the subconscious is very powerful and does affect the physical body.

It's these comments that irk me. Many many women fall pregnant whether they are under weight, over weight, smoke, drink, take drugs etc... Give your mates a break they are still unable to achieve what another couple can regardless of their health and lifestyle choices

Yes and it is so unfair, I totally agree. However if they really want a baby, surely they'd want to make the necessary effort and changes if necessary? There is a lot of information out there on things that can really help or hamper, so it makes sense to understand the issues to help things along.

I have no idea how it feels, as I got pregnant by 'chance' aged 22 and then again aged 25. I can only try to imagine- and I'm sure i just don't get close.

Read somewhere that a woman can only actually conceive 4 x a year in reality. Do wish I could find the article..

I see your point but throw into the equation stress, depression etc...at the situation then on top of that having to find the will power to change your lifestyle, it's bloody hard work.

For our third IVF cycle we took a year off, both of us lost weight and got fitter and hey presto it worked BUT I was also more chilled out (advice often bandied around also) our success may have had nothing to do with losing weight and getting fit it may just have been our time. As much as I wanted children I just could not get my mindset into weight loss for the first too cycles. I really hope my friends weren't judging me and accusing us of not wanting it enough because my mind could not cope with weight loss after learning I was infertile after various operations. Like I say give people a break.