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  #41  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:08
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Re: Is the immigrant officer right or wrong?

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no, it's an english term for the concept that people aren't supposed to be stripped of their possessions without some orderly procedure in order to protect their basic rights. since we're on the english forum, i thought i would use english words, although i'm sure somebody better versed than me in german could find the german word for it. smug fool.
Maybe.

But it is only Americans who go on about "doo prahssess".

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  #42  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:10
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Re: Is the immigrant officer right or wrong?

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Yeah, but the thing is, Billy-Bob, that principles of law derived from some dusty old bit of English parchment aren't particularly relevant when we're discussing an incident that took place on the Swiss/German border.

You are aware, I presume, that Switzerland was never part of the British Empire?
1. scrambled talks about 'due process'
2. DB makes some comment implying scrambled is ignorant american who knows nothing about non-american stuff
3. scrambled helpfully points out to DB that 'due process' was first made law in DB's own country in fact

that's why you're still stuck on the dusty paper.

moving on, so you are saying that switzerland does not recognize the concept of due process (in any language)? i find that a patently ridiculous claim, as this is among the most basic of rights.
  #43  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:10
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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I think it is unfortunate OP didn't get the relevant info, but honestly, having a custom cop basically paying himself from my wallet would make me call civil cops. I wonder if they would dare this with a local offender...
In all honesty they wouldn't do it with a local, but for reasons other than xenophobia. AFAIK border cops normally have special detention rights/impound rights because people can just leave and never come back. If, for example, I had my passport but not my Ausweis/proof of living in Switzerland I would expect to be detained until my fine was paid. That's only fair really otherwise I might go back to Moldova or Bristol and not pay up.
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  #44  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:13
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Re: Is the immigrant officer right or wrong?

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1. scrambled talks about 'due process'
2. DB makes some comment implying scrambled is ignorant american who knows nothing about non-american stuff
3. scrambled helpfully points out to DB that 'due process' was first made law in DB's own country in fact

that's why you're still stuck on the dusty paper.

moving on, so you are saying that switzerland does not recognize the concept of due process (in any language)? i find that a patently ridiculous claim, as this is among the most basic of rights.
In the UK Parliament (Commons), debaters address the Speaker rather than each other because it is deemed to be less aggressive and less of a chance of being interpreted as an ad hominem argument. Argue the point, not the man. Please.
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Old 29.03.2011, 19:16
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Re: Is the immigrant officer right or wrong?

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2. DB makes some comment implying scrambled is ignorant american who knows nothing about non-american stuff
I implied no such thing, but if the cap fits...
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  #46  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:16
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Re: Is the immigrant officer right or wrong?

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Maybe.

But it is only Americans who go on about "doo prahssess".

wrong again, the people who care are the ones who dont sit idly while the government walks all over them
  #47  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:16
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

My daughter brought 3kg of smoked meat back from Canada and declared it as meat, but the customs person was smart enough to realize that 0,5 kg is for fresh meat, and smoked meat is processed and thus falls within the 3,5 kg limit, and thus no problem.

Not the case when she brought me a bunch of motorcycle parts last year (and had the receipts), but forgot to declare them and then had to pat VAT + 2x fine (I told her to ALWAYS declare, much cheaper and safer).

Tom
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Old 29.03.2011, 19:19
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Re: Is the immigrant officer right or wrong?

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wrong again, the people who care are the ones who dont sit idly while the government walks all over them
Like I said: you're American, aren't you?

This theoretical stuff still matters to you chaps, apparently.
  #49  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:20
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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In all honesty they wouldn't do it with a local, but for reasons other than xenophobia. AFAIK border cops normally have special detention rights/impound rights because people can just leave and never come back. If, for example, I had my passport but not my Ausweis/proof of living in Switzerland I would expect to be detained until my fine was paid. That's only fair really otherwise I might go back to Moldova or Bristol and not pay up.
fair enough, but the OP is from Basel
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Old 29.03.2011, 19:23
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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fair enough, but the OP is from Basel
From or lives in Basel?
  #51  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:24
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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fair enough, but the OP is from Basel
And if he could prove it at the time, I stand correctly. I know I have been in a similar situation:

I was driving a rental car over the Schaffhausen border and back when I was stopped. My rental paperwork was out of date because I rented it past the term I had booked it for. I do this regularly, Europcar doesn't mind because they just charge my card they have on file based on how long I've rented/fuel used etc etc. However I was driving illegally (the car was technically stolen at that point) and it was a Sunday so I had to stick around in the border guard office for 5 hours until Europcar USA opened up in the State and I was able to make my rental extension official. They were very helpful (the border lot) but there are extenuating circumstances on borders where I feel they have more justification to impound/detain. Nothing to do with taking money out of a wallet though.
  #52  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:28
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Re: Is the immigrant officer right or wrong?

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I thought the fine was 2x duty, plus you have to pay the duty!
Just checked - the maximum is actually 5x plus the duty. And the 5x can be increased by 50% in certain circumstances. Although I believe they apply this on a sliding scale depending on severity. And yes (again) it HAS to be paid.

Customs can search you however they want (including with rubber gloves in necessary). Hence they are quite entitled to search your wallet and if they find you've been lying about having money they are quite within their powers to extract the fine from you. Nothing special about Switzerland here, pretty well all are the same.
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Old 29.03.2011, 19:36
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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I have seen customs officers taking apart someones car because they did not declare stuff at the border. I would rather my purse searched...
That is your opinion, it freaking annoyed me that he was searching my wallet when I was looking for the stuff myself!
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  #54  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:42
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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Customs can search you however they want (including with rubber gloves in necessary). Hence they are quite entitled to search your wallet and if they find you've been lying about having money they are quite within their powers to extract the fine from you. Nothing special about Switzerland here, pretty well all are the same.
Dont know about you guys but for me, there is a difference between having/exercising the right to search someone and treating them with dignity whilst exercising that right.
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  #55  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:43
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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custom guy ask for our wallets and went on to search for money and ofcourse forcefully took money for a bill i kept aside
So you lied about not having money!

Sorry, but having money 'put aside' is not the same as not having money.

So, from his point of view, you said that you didn't have the money, but you did.

You are lucky he didn't arrest you.

Tom
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  #56  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:47
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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Dont know about you guys but for me, there is a difference between having/exercising the right to search someone and treating them with dignity whilst exercising that right.
Indeed. The only times (2) that my wallet has been searched, they asked for permission to do so (once at the German/French border, back when there was a border, another time in Zurich).

Tom
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  #57  
Old 29.03.2011, 19:47
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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So you lied about not having money!

Sorry, but having money 'put aside' is not the same as not having money.

So, from his point of view, you said that you didn't have the money, but you did.

You are lucky he didn't arrest you.

Tom
So it's illegal to lie about not having money now
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Old 29.03.2011, 19:59
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

I was actually suprised when a customs lady officer asked me to open trunk and then just went through bags, opening side pockets and getting receipts out bags. Without asking my permission. There was nothing of interest for her and she handled me our documents and said to go on.

I felt very intrusive.
  #59  
Old 29.03.2011, 20:01
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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From or lives in Basel?
irrelevant, unless you believe swiss law draws a distinction between residency and citizenship when it comes to basic civil rights.

if that's the best you've got, i will claim victory and bid you good evening.
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Old 29.03.2011, 20:11
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Re: Was the customs officer right or wrong?

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if that's the best you've got, i will claim victory and bid you good evening.
Yeah. You go back and pore over your books of English Common Law.

They're sure to help you next time you encounter a problem with Swiss law enforcement authorities...
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