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  #21  
Old 07.04.2011, 11:51
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Beware stopping for children at the side of the road. They may be bait for an underage prostitution sting.
Underage prostitution (ok, older than 16) is legal in Switzerland with the exception of canton Geneva.
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  #22  
Old 07.04.2011, 11:52
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Motorcycles?

The UK has an age limit for buying motorcycles?
Little oiks going round buying these mini-bikes and terrorising the neighbourhood.
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  #23  
Old 07.04.2011, 11:54
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

A 8year old cannot be trusted that he won't suddenly start to walk.

If you see someone at a crossing, you just stop.

I live near a school - also a 30km zone - and they do this all the time. Just standing at the side walk in front of the crossing !

Some of them want to cross the street, some don't.

How do you know what's on a mind of a small kid? Sometimes they zig sometimes zag.

This was not a police trap.
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  #24  
Old 07.04.2011, 11:57
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Wait a minute, that's a bit harsh. Just because someone is in the vicinity of a crossing does not mean they want to cross it. The OP saw the kid, made a judgement based on the kid's demeanour and concluded he had no intention to cross. OP is familair with the raod and wasn't speeding. Police are taking the piss IMHO.
But isn't the rule is to stop if someone is there? It's not a matter of judging the intent of the pedestrian but simply to stop if someone is there and then cross.

I kind of wish that the police start some kind of awareness campaign here. Quite often I stop at a zebra crossing for a pedestrian and as very few people have the habit of doing that, the car behind me would screech to a halt. I see in the mirror the driver waving his/her arms around at me in anger. But then he/she becomes quite sheepish when they realise a pedestrian is crossing. I just .
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  #25  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:02
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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But isn't the rule is to stop if someone is there? It's not a matter of judging the intent of the pedestrian but simply to stop if someone is there and then cross.

I kind of wish that the police start some kind of awareness campaign here. Quite often I stop at a zebra crossing for a pedestrian and as very few people have the habit of doing that, the car behind me would screech to a halt. I see in the mirror the driver waving his/her arms around at me in anger. But then he/she becomes quite sheepish when they realise a pedestrian is crossing. I just .
Well, to be honest: I stop at zebra crossings. All the time. I have no problem to admit that I am otherwise a fairly aggressive driver and break some speed limits on main roads or highways frequently, but I do stop for every granny.

However: In Switzerland I stop several times a week for somebody who then stares at me as if I am mad. I make a clear indication with my arm that he should cross and then he shakes his head and keeps on standing just next to the damned zebra line. Old people instead often start to shake their hands wildly to tell me to drive on. This is not an exception but happens daily to me.

I can fully relate to not stopping completely for a teenager that gives you with his body language all signs that he has no intention to cross.
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Old 07.04.2011, 12:08
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Well, to be honest: I stop at zebra crossings. All the time. I have no problem to admit that I am otherwise a fairly aggressive driver and break some speed limits on main roads or highways frequently, but I do stop for every granny.

However: In Switzerland I stop several times a week for somebody who then stares at me as if I am mad. I make a clear indication with my arm that he should cross and then he shakes his head and keeps on standing just next to the damned zebra line. Old people instead often start to shake their hands wildly to tell me to drive on. This is not an exception but happens daily to me.

I can fully relate to not stopping completely for a teenager that gives you with his body language all signs that he has no intention to cross.

The child in question (seemingly) appeared to be 8 - 10 yo, not a teenager.

I dunno how many children you've been around of that age group but they often can be seen standing around supposed to be doing something but get distracted by the feeling of their undies in their crack, something tickling inside their nose, wondering if the frog in their pocket is still alive, etc etc... and all the while supposed to be watching for cars so they can safely cross the street.

No matter how many times someone waves you past after you've stopped for them, you are still supposed to stop for everyone. (Which, I believe, is the point of the police exercise that the OP and friend got "trapped" by.)
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  #27  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:09
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

8-10 year olds are no teenagers!
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  #28  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:10
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

i also see lots of idiot pedestrians hanging around crossings esp. when they are talking on the phone and oblivious to the queue they are causing.
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  #29  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:14
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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I kind of wish that the police start some kind of awareness campaign here. Quite often I stop at a zebra crossing for a pedestrian and as very few people have the habit of doing that, the car behind me would screech to a halt. I see in the mirror the driver waving his/her arms around at me in anger. But then he/she becomes quite sheepish when they realise a pedestrian is crossing. I just .
They have a big "Back to School" banner campaign targeted at drivers before the start of the new term each August.
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  #30  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:20
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

Where I live, in Canton Zurich, if the speed limit is 30Kph then the whole street is considered an area where pedestrians have the right of way.
Some helpful builders who added a couple of painted crossings after some new houses were built were told to remove them for the above reason.

So, in this context, it's immaterial whether the child was at a crossing or not - he had the right of way and the car driver should have acted accordingly -just in case.

Just to give you some context - last week we were driving along a 30Kph road where there were a row of parked cars. I noticed a couple of kids chasing each other along the pavement. I slowed down to about 10Kph. One of the children ran past the first parked car in the row and straight across the path of my car. But, as I was going so slowly, it was easy to stop in the metre or so I needed rather than run them down.

These roads are 30Kph for a reason and if you see a kid waiting by the side of the road, you stop.
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  #31  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:26
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

My opinion is that if somebody is even close to a Zebra crossing you stop. Police entrapment exists, - plain car on motorway flashing to get past, you speed up and hey presto, nice pull - but anyway, I get very frustrated on the geneva lake road where i walk my dog, and I actually have to put my foot out onto the road before someone will stop.Thats not always the case and I always clearly thank the motorist who stops as all pedestrians should as their part of the deal. But as a motorist there is no situation when there is a pedestrian close to the crossing, where the motorist should not stop.
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  #32  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:32
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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These roads are 30Kph for a reason and if you see a kid waiting by the side of the road, you stop.
Agree to this. No question, but this must be under the presumption that the person is actually intending to cross the road at some point, right?

As i said, the kid did not look like he did.
If he had, we would of course have stopped.

Even if he had bolted out into the road like a bee had attacked him from behind making him set a new personal best for long distance jumping, we would have had no problem what so ever coming to a gentle stop before he reached our side of the road.

Surely a certain level of common sense should be allowed when evaluating the best course of action, rather than blindly adhering to unbendable rules?
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  #33  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:38
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

Tom1234 as you say -I was completely confused when they removed all the crossings from around the local school where my kid went in Zurich... Until I realized it was because the whole zone was for giving right of way to all pedestrians anywhere- not just zebra crossings.
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  #34  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:40
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Surely a certain level of common sense should be allowed when evaluating the best course of action, rather than blindly adhering to unbendable rules?

This is not about blind adherence to rules: it's about safety for kids. Some countries are pro cars and here the general annotation is pro pedestrians. E.g. it's encouraged to use the public transportation over your own car. The city of Zurich for example has limited parking space - this is not to annoy the car owners, but rather a measurement for using public transport.
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  #35  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:41
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

Starald, lets look at this question like a trade. What is the upside, what is the downside (of stopping). Upside you avoid running over a child on a zebra crossing and therefore avoid spending several years banged up. Downside, you lose about 30 seconds of your time. Nuff said
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  #36  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:55
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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I kind of wish that the police start some kind of awareness campaign here. Quite often I stop at a zebra crossing for a pedestrian and as very few people have the habit of doing that, the car behind me would screech to a halt. I see in the mirror the driver waving his/her arms around at me in anger. But then he/she becomes quite sheepish when they realise a pedestrian is crossing. I just .
These laws vary between countries which can make it difficult for international drivers.

Maybe this is just a wind up but I am told in Germany that if you stop suddenly and somebody tails you then you are responsible. This can make it difficult to know how to react in ambiguous situations.
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  #37  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:55
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

What did the kid do wrong that he had to stand there for the police??? Damn juvenile delinquents. Or.... Was he being paid in which case isn't that child labour?

I was taught that you stop even if somebody is only approaching a crossing. And I learned to drive in one of the most lawless countries in the world.
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  #38  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:58
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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In Switzerland I stop several times a week for somebody who then stares at me as if I am mad. I make a clear indication with my arm that he should cross and then he shakes his head and keeps on standing just next to the damned zebra line. This is not an exception but happens daily to me.
Then you have sussessfully avoided police "Entrapment" every day!
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  #39  
Old 07.04.2011, 12:58
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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What did the kid do wrong that he had to stand there for the police??? Damn juvenile delinquents. Or.... Was he being paid in which case isn't that child labour?

I was taught that you stop even if somebody is only approaching a crossing. And I learned to drive in one of the most lawless countries in the world.
He ran across the road without looking.........
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  #40  
Old 07.04.2011, 13:03
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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In my experience, kids are taught to stand with their arm oustretched, not just loiter in the vicinity of a crossing.
Well that is a controversial issue. That used to be the "legal" way to signal that one wanted to cross the road. Recently (last year or year before) the government changed the rules so that was no longer necessary. (Stupid decision in my views)
However, this study by the Advice Office for Accident Prevention says that there is no proven correlation between hand-signs and the number of accidents.
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