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  #61  
Old 07.04.2011, 16:49
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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There's talk of introducing cameras here that measure tail-gating distance (as well as speed).
Call me old fashioned, but speed cameras, distance cameras, section speed controls... all don't really fix the main problem: You can drive like an agressive idiot at 120 kmh. What you need are cops on the street looking for dangerous driving, not just some box that brings in some revenue for the government.
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  #62  
Old 07.04.2011, 16:52
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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I have stopped for many false crossers from children fooling to groups of ladies having a natter on the edge of the crossing. It can be frustrating but then again I haven't run anyone over so .......
I believe it is the local equivalent of bingo for an element of the Swiss over-85s (actually they might just be 65 but need the cobwebs dusting off) to stand at the side of pedestrian crossings seeing how many 'younguns' they can wind up.
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  #63  
Old 07.04.2011, 16:52
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Call me old fashioned, but speed cameras, distance cameras, section speed controls... all don't really fix the main problem: You can drive like an agressive idiot at 120 kmh. What you need are cops on the street looking for dangerous driving, not just some box that brings in some revenue for the government.
I agree! We need more moving targets.
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  #64  
Old 07.04.2011, 16:52
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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No, not really. It just fits into the past 500 or so car/driving related threads on here. I think it is quite normal that traffic fines are a big question-mark when you move to a new country. Standards on what is tolerated differ massively from country to country and it is completely normal that a newly arrived person does something "wrong". Simple example: The German police is far more tolerant when it comes to speed and the cameras will not even make a picture if you are just ten over. On the other hand does the German highway patrol enforce quite strictly that you do drive on the right on a highway and keep the safety distance. Two things I have never ever seen on a Swiss Autobahn.
I have the impression that German highway police keep a low profile. I hardly ever see police in action on highways and when they're there they often appear blind to what's happening around them. The only time I've ever been stopped in Germany was when my dad was driving and he turned left into a side street where there was a "no left turn" sign. It was a quiet 30km/h street and no other cars in sight so obviously the policemen was a pedant or smelt some quick money. Anyway we were the ones who'd done something wrong so we payed up and didn't complain.
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  #65  
Old 07.04.2011, 16:54
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Does that mean that the expats here are taking their Swissification lessons very seriously?
To be honest some of the expats here are far more guilty of pedantry and self-righteousness than any Swiss I've met.
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  #66  
Old 07.04.2011, 16:55
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Call me old fashioned, but speed cameras, distance cameras, section speed controls... all don't really fix the main problem: You can drive like an agressive idiot at 120 kmh. What you need are cops on the street looking for dangerous driving, not just some box that brings in some revenue for the government.
Tail-gating quite often is aggressive driving - and it can be so at 50Km/h. The speed is largely irrelevant.
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  #67  
Old 07.04.2011, 16:55
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Must bicyclists also stop?
For pedestrians? Yes. (More precisely, they must yield the right of way, i.e. not enter the crossing until you are out of it. It's up to them how they accomplish this, i.e. slow down vs full stop.)

There is a bit of a wrinkle when a cyclist is the one crossing on a crosswalk. If you get off and walk your bike across, you're considered a pedestrian and cars have to yield the right of way; if you stay on it and pedal across, or even stay on and push with your feet ("trottinetteln") you are considered a vehicle trying to cut across lanes of traffic, and for that you don't have the right of way; you're allowed to cross but you have to wait for any cars/bikes to pass first. You also may not hinder or endanger any pedestrian in the crossing.

However, if you're doing this and a car hits you, the resulting accident is judged to be automatically the car's fault - even though the car actually had the right of way! Quirk of Swiss traffic law.

(Oh, and kids' pushalong toy bikes, mini scooters, etc. - all counted as pedestrians. Basically if you don't need a vignette for it, it ain't a bike.)
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  #68  
Old 07.04.2011, 16:56
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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There's talk of introducing cameras here that measure tail-gating distance (as well as speed).
Great - if they do that then they'll be able to reduce income tax to zero and abolish the billag.
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  #69  
Old 07.04.2011, 16:57
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Call me old fashioned, but speed cameras, distance cameras, section speed controls... all don't really fix the main problem: You can drive like an agressive idiot at 120 kmh. What you need are cops on the street looking for dangerous driving, not just some box that brings in some revenue for the government.
I'd say it needs both. If you were too close to the guy in front that is dangerous. I can see no valid argument that would excuse such driving. Therefore it is perfectly okay to have an automatic box watch for that so the real policeman can do more important work such as busting criminals. However, there are always things that a human can see that a box can't. Therefore you still need some humans on the lookout.
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  #70  
Old 07.04.2011, 17:15
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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I can see no valid argument that would excuse such driving.
I do, happens to me nearly daily as well: I am overtaking on the highway. Grandpa on the right lane was basically asleep for some minutes at 110 and suddenly sees a truck in his lane some five hundred meters in front of him at the horizon. To make sure that no car could possibly slow him down when he is near the truck he pulls out without warning. I have to break and surely don't have the safety distance for the moment. If an automated box measures it and sends me a bill I would really rant on EF about it!

Random police checks on the other hand would have a chat with grandpa instead.
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  #71  
Old 07.04.2011, 17:24
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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I do, happens to me nearly daily as well: I am overtaking on the highway. Grandpa on the right lane was basically asleep for some minutes at 110 and suddenly sees a truck in his lane some five hundred meters in front of him at the horizon. To make sure that no car could possibly slow him down when he is near the truck he pulls out without warning. I have to break and surely don't have the safety distance for the moment. If an automated box measures it and sends me a bill I would really rant on EF about it!

Random police checks on the other hand would have a chat with grandpa instead.
In the not too distant future, once Mercedes Benz etc has it all figured out, Cars will be networked and look-ahead Radar will force a correct following distance
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  #72  
Old 07.04.2011, 17:25
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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In the not too distant future, once Mercedes Benz etc has it all figured out, Cars will be networked and look-ahead Radar will force a correct following distance
So if I still get the bill I can just forward it to Mercedes Benz.
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  #73  
Old 07.04.2011, 17:30
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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So if I still get the bill I can just forward it to Mercedes Benz.
Even the best systems need a user that does not try to abuse it. The distance radar is AFAIK already available in the S-series. So one could put the tempomat to 250, distance to 100m and let the car do all the accellerating and braking. As the radar and computer are reacting quicker than you anyway, even a shorter distance might be possible and save. But if the grandpa I described above changes lane, you are then even more screwed...
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Old 07.04.2011, 17:34
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Even the best systems need a user that does not try to abuse it. The distance radar is AFAIK already available in the S-series. So one could put the tempomat to 250, distance to 100m and let the car do all the accellerating and braking. As the radar and computer are reacting quicker than you anyway, even a shorter distance might be possible and save. But if the grandpa I described above changes lane, you are then even more screwed...

Hence the next development will be networked cars, cars that talk to the other cars in their vicinity and warn when something like that is happening. Feedback into SatNavs will avoid congestion in real time... Drivers will be a thing of the past in 20 years.
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  #75  
Old 07.04.2011, 18:19
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Hence the next development will be networked cars, cars that talk to the other cars in their vicinity and warn when something like that is happening. Feedback into SatNavs will avoid congestion in real time... Drivers will be a thing of the past in 20 years.
You mean the satellites will force you to stay home when there is a huge traffic jam on your way to the emergency clinic?
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  #76  
Old 07.04.2011, 18:29
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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You mean the satellites will force you to stay home when there is a huge traffic jam on your way to the emergency clinic?
Or bypass it with a quicker route...much better in an emergency don't you think ?
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Old 07.04.2011, 19:05
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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Or bypass it with a quicker route...much better in an emergency don't you think ?
I was thinking of the emergency clinic being in the middle of a really big grid lock.
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  #78  
Old 07.04.2011, 19:26
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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I agree! We need more moving targets.
We need more dipshit-seeking missles. Sure, the first few will be a bit messy and raise some eyebrows but the deterrent effect of a missile battery locking onto your car will be worth it.
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  #79  
Old 07.04.2011, 19:53
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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I was thinking of the emergency clinic being in the middle of a really big grid lock.
...and you think a SatNav/Sats will suggest to stay at home ?
It will redirect to one that isn't in a gridlock. Whatever it chooses, it will be an informed optimized route.
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Old 07.04.2011, 20:37
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Re: Is entrapment an accepted method for Swiss police?

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I was thinking of the emergency clinic being in the middle of a really big grid lock.
Which will be the case for the Hospital Pourtalès in Neuchatel when the Tour de Romandie comes to town!
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