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  #61  
Old 19.04.2011, 19:35
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Re: Lack of reality...

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None of us KNOW that information.....

For example:...."I like to go out" can mean:
a) I head down the bar every night to catch up with friends and have a couple of beers
b) I'm on the town every Friday and Saturday night until the early hours - getting completely hammered
c) I go out most Saturdays with a group of friends - we have a couple of drinks and then head home
d) I don't go out that often but when I do I go out "big-style" - bottles of champagne
e) I go out most weeks, hunting down a small aternative cafe where I enjoy a nice infusion while listening to poetry.
Good idea for a poll
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  #62  
Old 19.04.2011, 19:46
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Re: Lack of reality...

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Where do you draw the line? On the amount and/or who can comment? The point is you can't.

Each poster has their own set of absolute basic requirements, low level extras, mid-level and high-level extras - along with external costs (existing costs in their home country) and long term goals.

None of us KNOW that information, we just project our spending onto that budget, judge whether we spend a lot and/or are rich, and work out whether we could do that on the questioned amount.

For example: Going out.
"I like to go out" can mean:
a) I head down the bar every night to catch up with friends and have a couple of beers
b) I'm on the town every Friday and Saturday night until the early hours - getting completely hammered
c) I go out most Saturdays with a group of friends - we have a couple of drinks and then head home
d) I don't go out that often but when I do I go out "big-style" - bottles of champagne
e) I go out most weeks, hunting down a small aternative cafe where I enjoy a nice infusion while listening to poetry.

How about this:

a) I head down the bar every night ...
b) ... until the early hours - getting completely hammered
c) ... with a group of friends ...
d) ... "big-style" - bottles of champagne
e) ... while listening to poetry

Anyone?
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  #63  
Old 19.04.2011, 20:09
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Re: Lack of reality...

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What amuses me is when you get comments like "ah yes, you don't earn a lot but you're a student" - sorry to break this to you but I pay the same health insurance, the same train fare, in fact, pretty much the same everything as everybody else. It's not like other countries where students get loans and free stuff. So on the one hand people think that it's impossible to live on less than the magic 120 k and on the other hand, as long as SOMEBODY ELSE is doing it, then of course it works.
...
I think that is a biiiig part of why these questions come, you want a salary that's worth showing off with. A sort of "well, yes, I'm sure YOU'd be happy to not pee standing up after ten if YOU were making as much money as I am"...
This is a great example of the chip on the shoulder I was talking about. Obviously, student life isn't cheap: higher education is seen in most countries as short-term pain financially with a long-term payoff. I think you yourself have extolled elsewhere on the forum the virtues of tuition at Swiss Unis not being at the crazy levels that it is in for example the US, and Switzerland has plenty of other incentives for students, like subsidized health insurance for lower-income brackets, cheaper train fare, cheaper tickets for gigs, etc. Porsch1909 mentions some others.

I think if you're honest, you would also have to admit that lots of people (like me) will happily pick up a couple more rounds when a student is out with a group of normal wage-earners. Let's not make it more dramatic than it really is.

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I don't think this is entirely accurate. I've seen a few places which give discounts for students.

I get a free bank account and free credit card from UBS. If you want a GA pass (2250CHF instead of 3100CHF). All of the university students also get I think about 18% off the apple store twice a year through the neptune discounts. I know a few crepe places that give student deals as well.

Even the taxi I was in the other day had preferential rates for students...something I'd never see in the UK.
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  #64  
Old 19.04.2011, 20:29
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Re: Lack of reality...

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This is a great example of the chip on the shoulder I was talking about. Obviously, student life isn't cheap: higher education is seen in most countries as short-term pain financially with a long-term payoff. I think you yourself have extolled elsewhere on the forum the virtues of tuition at Swiss Unis not being at the crazy levels that it is in for example the US, and Switzerland has plenty of other incentives for students, like subsidized health insurance for lower-income brackets, cheaper train fare, cheaper tickets for gigs, etc.
The subsidy for health insurance is there up to quite a high level of income, student or not, and even though I get the subsidy, it's still a quarter of my income. Train fare is cheaper for anyone up to 25 years of age, the reduction on concert tickets is typically less than 5% of the full price, and so on. But I'm not saying it's dreadful, in fact it's quite alright most of the time. Ok, so I haven't had a proper holiday in two years but then a lot of people haven't.

My point was that I simply don't understand what these 120k people are frittering their money away with and whether they realise that there is only enough money in this world for every one of us to earn around 13k. What we have in excess of that, others will lack. I'm not a socialist but this truly is "suffering at a first class level".
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  #65  
Old 19.04.2011, 20:38
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Re: Lack of reality...

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lots of people (like me) will happily pick up a couple more rounds when a student is out with a group of normal wage-earners.
I won't.

They should be in their garrets with their books and astrolabes, not out gallavanting with normal folk and taxpayers.

Anyway, regarding salaries, I'm with the chap above. It's all very well for the proletariat to fund their milk stout and winkle habits on their meagre five figure salaries, but if one is to have any kind of civilised life, a salary of at least 500 000 is necessary.

Live in a foul inner-city apartment block with a shared laundry room and the stench of the morlocks seeping through the walls?

I wouldn't keep my dog in such a place.
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  #66  
Old 19.04.2011, 21:09
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Re: Lack of reality...

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I won't.

They should be in their garrets with their books and astrolabes, not out gallavanting with normal folk and taxpayers.

Anyway, regarding salaries, I'm with the chap above. It's all very well for the proletariat to fund their milk stout and winkle habits on their meagre five figure salaries, but if one is to have any kind of civilised life, a salary of at least 500 000 is necessary.

Live in a foul inner-city apartment block with a shared laundry room and the stench of the morlocks seeping through the walls?

I wouldn't keep my dog in such a place.
Last time I checked I pay tax...same rates as you normal folk
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  #67  
Old 19.04.2011, 21:10
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Re: Lack of reality...

Also as an aside. I don't get the health insurance subsidy because I am a student
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  #68  
Old 19.04.2011, 21:23
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Re: Lack of reality...

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My point was that I simply don't understand what these 120k people are frittering their money away with and whether they realise that there is only enough money in this world for every one of us to earn around 13k. What we have in excess of that, others will lack.
That has no real relevance whatsoever, and people who earn 60k, 120k or 500k+ have the right to fritter it on whatever they like... which if you go out regularly and have a taste for fine dining, electronics, cars, holidays in far places, or any one of a great number of things, isn't that hard to do I imagine. As your wage increases you either squirrel it away for a rainy day, or adjust your lifestyle accordingly. I really don't get what point you were supposed to have had, other than issuing rhetoric about the world not being a fluffy huggy place where all wealth is shared equally, which lets face it, is just a bit daft.
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  #69  
Old 19.04.2011, 21:26
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Re: Lack of reality...

As long as the rich fritter their money away on frivolities, there is a chance that some of it might trickle down to me.

If they hide it in a bank account in the Caymen Islands, it's no use to anyone, is it?
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  #70  
Old 19.04.2011, 22:28
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Re: Lack of reality...

Jaysus people, talk about ad nauseum!

Regardless of whether you are earning 60K, 80K, 120K or 200K, if you are used to a certain lifestyle in your home country, where the standard of living is lower and if you are only offered a certain amount of salary here in Switzerland based on your skills and years of experience, the way I see it, you only have two choices besides negotiating for more:

1. Take it and adapt
2. Leave it and continue to live the way you do back in your own country.

There really isnt a magic number that you need that absolute minimum to survive in this country. Its all relative and how much you want to move here. And the funny thing is, every time such a thread pops up, because some idiot didnt bother searching the forum despite saying that he did, cue members 2, 3, 4, 5.... who will come along to say that you need 80K minimum, and members 6, 7, 8 protesting that you dont. We all fall for the same bait, hook, line sinker and get into the same debate over and over but its like a whole group of people in a room talking over each other because everyone's circumstances and lifestyle choices are different. Seriously ad nauseum.

I propose we ignore such threads from now on.
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Last edited by summerrain; 19.04.2011 at 22:39. Reason: Trying to make post less angsty
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Old 19.04.2011, 22:30
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Re: Lack of reality...

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I propose we ignore such threads from now on.
Yes, but I ignore such threads, how can I brag about my ability to survive on 20 Rp a week?
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  #72  
Old 19.04.2011, 22:36
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Re: Lack of reality...

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Last time I checked I pay tax...same rates as you normal folk
the tax rate depends on your income class...just saying
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  #73  
Old 19.04.2011, 22:40
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Re: Lack of reality...

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Yes, but I ignore such threads, how can I brag about my ability to survive on 20 Rp a week?
Ditch that jacket of yours then come and brag. I bet you'll be seeing less freebies and discounts and your living costs will shoot up to 1CHF.
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  #74  
Old 19.04.2011, 22:55
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Re: Lack of reality...

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the tax rate depends on your income class...just saying
But a student earning 50k will pay the same tax as Joe blogs earning 50k?
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Old 19.04.2011, 22:57
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Re: Lack of reality...

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Also as an aside. I don't get the health insurance subsidy because I am a student

Only in Neuchatel... I never really got that.
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  #76  
Old 19.04.2011, 23:01
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Re: Lack of reality...

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I won't.

They should be in their garrets with their books and astrolabes, not out gallavanting with normal folk and taxpayers.

Anyway, regarding salaries, I'm with the chap above. It's all very well for the proletariat to fund their milk stout and winkle habits on their meagre five figure salaries, but if one is to have any kind of civilised life, a salary of at least 500 000 is necessary.

Live in a foul inner-city apartment block with a shared laundry room and the stench of the morlocks seeping through the walls?

I wouldn't keep my dog in such a place.

... and she still said yes!?!
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  #77  
Old 19.04.2011, 23:06
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Re: Lack of reality...

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Yes, but I ignore such threads, how can I brag about my ability to survive on 20 Rp a week?
Plus Single Malt?
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  #78  
Old 20.04.2011, 08:22
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Re: Lack of reality...

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But a student earning 50k will pay the same tax as Joe blogs earning 50k?
Not necessarily - the Swiss tax return can ensure 2 people earning GROSS 50k earn very different NET amounts!
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  #79  
Old 20.04.2011, 09:18
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Re: Lack of reality...

To be honest, in all fairness, I dont really have a problem people asking for advise on how to survive on minimal salaries like 120K. New country, new job, new neighbours, new headaches and pain in the necks, anyone can be unsure about what future holds especially when we are not getting the salaries we expected and we have all been there.

But just that the title of such threads should be more appropriate like "Is my 120K salary enough to piss you off?"
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Old 20.04.2011, 09:20
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Re: Lack of reality...

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To be honest, in all fairness, I dont really have a problem people asking for advise on how to survive on minimal salaries like 120K. New country, new job, new neighbours, new headaches and pain in the necks, anyone can be unsure about what future holds especially when we are not getting the salaries we expected and we have all been there.

But just that the title of such threads should be more appropriate like "Is my 120K salary enough to piss you off a lot ?"
There you go
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