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  #61  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:38
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Re: What has the banker become?

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Also the industry is super competitive and attracts top talent who demand top level pay.
IMO, it attracts some of the world's dumbest people. But that's just my opinion. I have never met a group of people so unable or unwilling to look outside of their minute little box. They typically have no clue as to the realities of either business or macro economics beyond what they've been taught or what Lex said that morning. It's not their fault of course, it's what they need to be to be hired. It's because investment banks make most of their money by creating complexity in a field which doesn't really need to be that complicated. It's now so complex that no one really understands all of it, and the financial system is almost like an organic, living being. Anyway, that's where they make their money, and people are so afraid to disagree with a new PhD quant or fresh new Harvard MBA that you get CEOs and other leaders of huge companies bobbing their heads like morons when sitting in front of a joke structured product presentation - a product designed to be low risk but is the biggest gamble the world has ever seen. Again, just my opinion. But to paraphrase John Bolton

“If the U.N. building in New York Swiss Re building in London lost its top 10 stories [where all high-ranking officials have their offices] it wouldn’t make a bit of difference,”
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  #62  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:38
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Re: What has the banker become?

I would also remind you Scrambled that it is not a bash the banker thread, but a question of whether the banker deserves this elevated position in society or not
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  #63  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:39
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Re: What has the banker become?

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I think that is a good example. When I last checked my bank charges, they havent changed in many years. However I no longer get to speak to a person that I know, in fact I believe now that some banks are charging for a written statement, using call centres to deal with joe P and if anything have reduced services by reverting to ibanking. I have no comment to judge whether ibanking is hard work or not, im sure it is, but the bank strategy is ,shall we say, reducing service and increasing profitability to the cost of the customer.
you're talking about retail banking. this is completely different from investment banking.
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  #64  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:39
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Re: What has the banker become?

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politician
No. They get away with it, but don't get the bonus...

<thinks>

Okay, so maybe the bigger names get to collect bonuses on the retirement speaker circuit, or by being on the boards of banks (where else!? ), but overall still a no...
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  #65  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:40
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Re: What has the banker become?

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retail banking and investment banking are two very separate things. i gave you an explanation about what exactly an investment bank does. investment banks do not take deposits.
Then you need to look at proposed legislation in the Uk which is trying to do exactly what you beleiev is already the case but in fact is not
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  #66  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:41
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Re: What has the banker become?

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IMO, it attracts some of the world's dumbest people. But that's just my opinion. I have never met a group of people so unable or unwilling to look outside of their minute little box. They typically have no clue as to the realities of either business or macro economics beyond what they've been taught or what Lex said that morning. It's not their fault of course, it's what they need to be to be hired. It's because investment banks make most of their money by creating complexity in a field which doesn't really need to be that complicated. It's now so complex that no one really understands all of it, and the financial system is almost like an organic, living being. Anyway, that's where they make their money, and people are so afraid to disagree with a new PhD quant or fresh new Harvard MBA that you get CEOs and other leaders of huge companies bobbing their heads like morons when sitting in front of a joke structured product presentation - a product designed to be low risk but is the biggest gamble the world has ever seen. Again, just my opinion. But to paraphrase John Bolton

“If the U.N. building in New York Swiss Re building in London lost its top 10 stories [where all high-ranking officials have their offices] it wouldn’t make a bit of difference,”
your hyperbole is noted but these arent dumb people.

if you're going to use structured products as an example you need to be more specific (since i work on structured products). they ARE low risk, it's not the fault of the structurer that clients use incredible amounts of leverage to gear their positions.
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  #67  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:43
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Re: What has the banker become?

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your hyperbole is noted but these arent dumb people.

if you're going to use structured products as an example you need to be more specific (since i work on structured products). they ARE low risk, it's not the fault of the structurer that clients use incredible amounts of leverage to gear their positions.
That assumes that the structurer has in depth knowledge of the components of his product, which in my experience he does not.
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  #68  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:45
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Re: What has the banker become?

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That assumes that the structurer has in depth knowledge of the components of his product, which in my experience he does not.
sorry to be blunt but i can't believe you have any relevant experience in this case based your failure to understand the difference between retail banking and investment banking.

people dont just whip up structured products. risk management quants are involved in every step of the process.
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  #69  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:46
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Re: What has the banker become?

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sorry to be blunt but i can't believe you have any relevant experience in this case based your failure to understand the difference between retail banking and investment banking.
well that is a massive assumption that as it turns out is totally incorrect
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  #70  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:47
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Re: What has the banker become?



Maybe this could throw some light on the subject.
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  #71  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:48
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Re: What has the banker become?

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sorry to be blunt but i can't believe you have any relevant experience in this case based your failure to understand the difference between retail banking and investment banking.

people dont just whip up structured products. risk management quants are involved in every step of the process.
So are you suggesting that there is no link between retail and investment banking, nothing, nada, zip?
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  #72  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:50
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Re: What has the banker become?

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oh you took a shot at bankers
Err, no. Actually, I took a shot at someone who was sufficiently stupid to redefine "bankers" as

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investment bank employees whose primary function is to help sell companies either via IPO, merger or acquisition.
and think that they'd get away with it.

But do, I prithee, carry on digging that hole
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  #73  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:51
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Re: What has the banker become?

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the money the banks work with is a small percentage their own capital and a huge percentage of , well your capital, so why should the bankers pay themselves so much.

Our choice is determined by what? Well our pension for one, and in whose hands is that? I wonder whether there will be an end to this or is the general donkeyship going to keep taking it right up the ying yang? your thoughts?
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That huge money is not earned oin a traditional sense as it is mostly paid for by high street earnings, using your money to speculate with a safety net.
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I think Scrambled that very comment does nothing to convince me that you know how banks work to be honest. Do you think that the current minimum bank capital requirement is more than 10 pct then?
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I think that is a good example. When I last checked my bank charges, they havent changed in many years. However I no longer get to speak to a person that I know, in fact I believe now that some banks are charging for a written statement, using call centres to deal with joe P and if anything have reduced services by reverting to ibanking. I have no comment to judge whether ibanking is hard work or not, im sure it is, but the bank strategy is ,shall we say, reducing service and increasing profitability to the cost of the customer.
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well that is a massive assumption that as it turns out is totally incorrect
you havent really done anything to disprove it
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  #74  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:52
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Re: What has the banker become?

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risk management quants are involved in every step of the process.
Stop, please stop!!!


My sides are hurting too much, someone make him stop, fer goodness' sake
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Old 13.04.2011, 12:54
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Re: What has the banker become?

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Err, no. Actually, I took a shot at someone who was sufficiently stupid to redefine "bankers" as



and think that they'd get away with it.

But do, I prithee, carry on digging that hole
that's what a banker is. if you disagree you are wrong and stupid.
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  #76  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:55
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Re: What has the banker become?

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people dont just whip up structured products. risk management quants are involved in every step of the process.
A structured product by its very nature is an accumulation of derivatives designed to either protect the investor from some risk or to expose him to some in a very wide manner.
The structurer will seek to adopt positions in various areas believing that those positions will allow him to sell the relative product to the client and derive income from the trading of each conponent. However the viability of the product depends of the knowledge of each position that the structurer is taking. Therefore if the structurer believes he has lets say commodity risk by buying stock in say Bunge Group as they are quoted on the stock market and they trade commodities, it is a naive and inaccurate assumption. However the structurer is not to know that perhaps that company`s exposure to say the us bad debt market is huge rather than the fact that they derive income from crushing soyabeans. The risk management cannot know more than the structurer in this case because the balance sheet of the company ie Bunge is audited by an audit company who has little or no knowledge of the activity of the business.
Thats what I believe to be the case.
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  #77  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:58
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Re: What has the banker become?

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that's what a banker is. if you disagree you are wrong and stupid.
Adhominem Expression: It says more about you than money ever can.
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  #78  
Old 13.04.2011, 13:00
economisto
 
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Re: What has the banker become?

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that's what a banker is. if you disagree you are wrong and stupid.
It's this sort of rule by decree that makes those who work in the banking industry so unpopular. That, and you're actually incorrect. Just because this is the definition your mates use down the wine bar after work, and just because this is how some in the banking industry speak to and think of the wine bar waiters, doesn't mean it's either right or acceptable. The semantics of this thread are as they are popularly held to be - the contributors to this thread believe that a "banker" is a dude who works for a bank, wears a suit and makes a lot of money. If you're using a different definition then you should start your own thread regarding that particular job.
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Old 13.04.2011, 13:01
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Re: What has the banker become?

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A structured product by its very nature is an accumulation of derivatives designed to either protect the investor from some risk or to expose him to some in a very wide manner.
The structurer will seek to adopt positions in various areas believing that those positions will allow him to sell the relative product to the client and derive income from the trading of each conponent. However the viability of the product depends of the knowledge of each position that the structurer is taking. Therefore is the structurer believes he has lets say commodity risk by buying stock in say Bunge Group as they are quoted on the stock market and they trade commodities, it is a naive and inaccurate assumption. However the structurer is not to know that perhaps that company`s exposure to say the us bad debt market is huge rather than the fact that they derive income from crushing soyabeans. The risk management cannot know more than the structurer in this case because the balance sheet of the company ie Bunge is audited by an audit company who has little or no knowledge of the activity of the business.
Thats what I believe to be the case.
agree but so long as the product is structured to give the theoretically correct exposures, then can you say the ultimately responsibility lies on the buyer who performs due diligence on the purchase so long as the ibank didn't withhold material info or lie? nobody is guaranteeing here that the product will perform well.
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Old 13.04.2011, 13:02
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Re: What has the banker become?

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Err, no. Actually, I took a shot at someone who was sufficiently stupid to redefine "bankers" as



and think that they'd get away with it.

But do, I prithee, carry on digging that hole
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Adhominem Expression: It says more about you than money ever can.
.
how about i shove that right back in your face? smart
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