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  #21  
Old 20.04.2011, 15:18
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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almost all law breaking by cyclists does NOT endanger lives of others.
No, but cyclists who break the law are much more intimidating to pedestrians than drivers of motor vehicles, because, unlike the drivers of motor vehicles, they insist on sharing our space.

I can count on one hand the number of times a car has forced me to move out of the way on a footpath or pedestrian crossing. I'd have to be a mutant octopus to count the number of times I've been forced out of the way by some arrogant, spandex-sprayed cyclist (often with a mouthful of abuse).
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  #22  
Old 20.04.2011, 15:18
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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im just bored trying to kill a little time....
Ah, so a little light trolling then.

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but seriously lighten up, you'll feel better.
... thanks for the additional lifestyle advice, I'll take than under consideration too.

Wow... I feel better already!
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  #23  
Old 20.04.2011, 15:26
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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No, but cyclists who break the law are much more intimidating to pedestrians than drivers of motor vehicles, because, unlike the drivers of motor vehicles, they insist on sharing our space.

I can count on one hand the number of times a car has forced me to move out of the way on a footpath or pedestrian crossing. I'd have to be a mutant octopus to count the number of times I've been forced out of the way by some arrogant, spandex-sprayed cyclist (often with a mouthful of abuse).
Perhaps it's the way we perceive threat differently?

To my knowledge, a cyclist has never forced me off a path when I've been a pedestrian but I've had car drivers throw things at me when I've been running, walking or cycling and a couple of drivers have deliberately swerved towards me when I've been walking along along a house-lined suburban road without pavements.
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Old 20.04.2011, 15:32
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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Perhaps it's the way we perceive threat differently?

To my knowledge, a cyclist has never forced me off a path when I've been a pedestrian...
No. That's not perception but probably location. I bet you are not walking through Zurich regularly? Specifically the inner city parts that are popular with hipsters riding old roadbikes while wearing oversized headphones? When I am on foot, I am really scared of them, when I am in my car my rule of thumb is "if you ignore me, I will pretend to ignore you" (while keeping it safe).
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Old 20.04.2011, 15:39
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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No. That's not perception but probably location. I bet you are not walking through Zurich regularly?
Not too regularly.

DB - do you still have them same problem where you live now?

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Specifically the inner city parts that are popular with hipsters riding old roadbikes while wearing oversized headphones?.
It can't be these ones. DB was referring to spandex-sprayed cyclists.
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Old 20.04.2011, 15:44
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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DB - do you still have them same problem where you live now?
It's even worse now, as there's a stretch of footpath which is also a designated cycle path.

All well and good, you'd think. After all, if pedestrians try to stick to the sides and cyclists show some awareness of the fact that they are sharing their space (legally, for a change) with people on foot, everyone can just get along.

Except they don't. The locals on their way to the station are fine, as they tinkle their bells and thank you as they pass by. The sports cyclists who infest the area at the weekends, on the other hand, couldn't be more obnoxious if they tried. I recently overheard a group of them shouting rather rudely at an old couple who didn't skip quite fast enough out of their way as they hurtled along the path at a speed more suited to a speedway than a shared walking/cycling area.

What is it with this sense of entitlement that so many cyclists have got? Not all pedestrians are off-duty drivers, so why do they insist on taking their fury out on us?
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Old 20.04.2011, 15:47
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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It's even worse now, as there's a stretch of footpath which is also a designated cycle path.

All well and good, you'd think. After all, if pedestrians try to stick to the sides and cyclists show some awareness of the fact that they are sharing their space (legally, for a change) with people on foot, everyone can just get along.

Except they don't. The locals on their way to the station are fine, as they tinkle their bells and thank you as they pass by. The sports cyclists who infest the area at the weekends, on the other hand, couldn't be more obnoxious if they tried. I recently overheard a group of them shouting rather rudely at an old couple who didn't skip quite fast enough out of their way as they hurtled along the path at a speed more suited to a speedway than a shared walking/cycling area.

What is it with this sense of entitlement that so many cyclists have got? Not all pedestrians are off-duty drivers, so why do they insist on taking their fury out on us?
You're not a cyclist then? Are you planning to get one for the summer?
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  #28  
Old 20.04.2011, 15:50
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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There has just been a Radio 4 programme about cycle safety. The number of cycle accidents has gone down..

One of the factors to which this reduction is attributed is that more people than ever are cycling - and by simple logic, most of these are car drivers as well.
It's only when the car-drivers start cycling regularly that they realise what t1ts they were on the road in their attitude to, and treatment of cyclists.
They changed their behaviour after become cyclists.

Of course the programme still had those people bemoaning all cyclists being law breakers.....

I don't break the law when I cycle but even so, the programme did point out that almost all law breaking by cyclists does NOT endanger lives of others.
As a (former) cyclist brought up in Holland, where two wheels are sacrosanct, I have to agree with most of this.

BUT, personal observations point to the following (and I know this is only my opinion)...

1) many cyclists* don't appear to have driven a car much, so the converse about awareness of what cars can and cannot see applies to them - they seem to have no idea that some of the things they do could considerably shorten their lives. I won't go into the motivation of this and how this could also impact their views about cars and - worse - the people who drive them - that's another topic for another day...

2) cyclists could help themselves by not doing something stupid in front of cars travelling at speed - generally I drive defensively around cyclists, try to give them the same space as I would another car (e.g. if overtaking or on roundabouts) and assume they will do something more stupid than the average car driver - this means I've managed not to run any cyclists over (and I hope that won't change), with some albeit near misses (which I'm pretty sure the cyclists are not aware of)

3) not withstanding your examples of some prize tossers (later post - no excuses for your experiences), cyclists do seem to believe that rules of the road and common courtesy do not extend to them. They give an impression that they are somehow above it all. This does not endear them to other road users. There are plenty of examples in life where breaking the law doesn't really inconvenience many (if anyone) people, but the point is, we still don't do it (whatever it might be)

For the record, my observations come from my time as a cyclists, driver and in CH, my commute to work, which for the past 11+ years consisted of primarily of left-foot-right-foot means (take note Coralee...), while for the past 3 months primarily via tram/foot combo or car. As with DB, the number of transgressions witnessed on a day-to-day basis by cyclists flouting road rules was and remains infinitely greater vs. cars/motorbikes.

*denotes people on bikes as opposed to (semi-pro) recreational cyclists

Edit: I see DB has just touched upon point 3 as well...

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What is it with this sense of entitlement that so many cyclists have got? Not all pedestrians are off-duty drivers, so why do they insist on taking their fury out on us?
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  #29  
Old 20.04.2011, 15:51
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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You're not a cyclist then? Are you planning to get one for the summer?
Someone is trying to persuade me at the moment, but I like to maintain an adequate blood supply to my privy members, so I shall avoid it for as long as I'm able.
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Old 20.04.2011, 15:57
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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3) not withstanding your examples of some prize tossers (later post - no excuses for your experiences), cyclists do seem to believe that rules of the road and common courtesy do not extend to them. They give an impression that they are somehow above it all. This does not endear them to other road users. There are plenty of examples in life where breaking the law doesn't really inconvenience many (if anyone) people, but the point is, we still don't do it (whatever it might be)
It's some cyclists. Not all. The same as some car drivers drive like d1cks and not all.

The trouble is, some people can't lose their prejudices easily. It was the same in the U.K. as it is here with a certain group of people.

Probably the same people too as people in continental Europe tend to have a different attitude to cycling than those in the U.K.
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Old 20.04.2011, 16:00
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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Someone is trying to persuade me at the moment, but I like to maintain an adequate blood supply to my privy members, so I shall avoid it for as long as I'm able.
Don't worry, that shouldn't be a problem - in the past I've cycled hundreds of kilometres a week and it hasn't affected my ability to have children.
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  #32  
Old 20.04.2011, 16:01
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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The trouble is, some people can't lose their prejudices easily.
"Prejudice" suggests that a person has made up his mind to dislike cyclists before they have had the opportunity to give him a good reason to dislike them.

I prefer the term postjudice, as it reflects much better the reality of the situation.

If cyclists didn't break the law and act in a selfish and aggressive manner, then pedestrians wouldn't dislike them, would they?
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  #33  
Old 20.04.2011, 16:01
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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It's some cyclists. Not all. The same as some car drivers drive like dicks and not all.
Of course... of course...

(by the way, there appeared to a typo, which I fixed for you )

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Don't worry, that shouldn't be a problem - in the past I've cycled hundreds of kilometres a week and it hasn't affected my ability to have children.
Ah yes, but how do you know they're yours...? After all Mrs Tom1234 will have been left alone while you were out pedalling those hundreds of kms a week...


(sorry couldn't resist...)
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  #34  
Old 20.04.2011, 16:03
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

Get riof cycle lanes, ensure all car drivers are taught now to drive around cyclists, make all cyclists cycle on the road (probably with some sort of cycling proficiency test) and voila. Done.

However, the low number of deaths currently (if five cyclists are stupid and cycle into a pedestrian for every one car which does the same, I'd still prefer to be hit by those cyclists) is probably a good reason for just accepting the status quo, and letting some pedestrians and drivers have irrational hatred for cyclists, and cyclists the same for pedestrians and drivers.
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Old 20.04.2011, 16:06
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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Get riof cycle lanes, ensure all car drivers are taught now to drive around cyclists, make all cyclists cycle on the road (probably with some sort of cycling proficiency test) and voila. Done.

However, the low number of deaths currently (if five cyclists are stupid and cycle into a pedestrian for every one car which does the same, I'd still prefer to be hit by those cyclists) is probably a good reason for just accepting the status quo, and letting some pedestrians and drivers have irrational hatred for cyclists, and cyclists the same for pedestrians and drivers.
So 2 wrongs make a right, then?
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Old 20.04.2011, 16:07
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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"Prejudice" suggests that a person has made up his mind to dislike cyclists before they have had the opportunity to give him a good reason to dislike them.

I prefer the term postjudice, as it reflects much better the reality of the situation.
I meant it was prejudice against all cyclists because of an incident or two earlier in your life.

Obviously there must have been a catalyst.

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If cyclists didn't break the law and act in a selfish and aggressive manner, then pedestrians wouldn't dislike them, would they?
I'm a pedestrian. I don't dislike cyclists.

I've been knocked off my bike by a car - him pulling out of a side road, me going over the bonnet. Him driving off.
I don't hate car drivers though.
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Old 20.04.2011, 16:09
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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So 2 wrongs make a right, then?
Umm ... no?
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  #38  
Old 20.04.2011, 16:13
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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I meant it was prejudice against all cyclists because of an incident or two earlier in your life.

Obviously there must have been a catalyst.
No single incident... just 38 years of being a pedestrian and being sick to death of being treated as an inconvenience by people who think they are above the law.

If cyclists want to be respected, then they should:
  • stop at pedestrian crossings and red lights;
  • go the right way down one-way streets;
  • stay off the footpath;
  • dismount when they want to use pedestrian crossings;
  • slow down where they share their space with pedestrians.
They're quite simple rules. I don't understand why so many (and I mean many) cyclists are incapable of following them.
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Old 20.04.2011, 16:14
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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There has just been a Radio 4 programme about cycle safety. The number of cycle accidents has gone down..
Is that BBC radio 4, or is there a Swiss version of that veritable institution?
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I'd have to be a mutant octopus to count the number of times I've been forced out of the way by some arrogant, spandex-sprayed cyclist (often with a mouthful of abuse).
Like the time I was walking from the SBB exit to the tramstop, and such an individual thought it was meet to cycle across the forecourt at ~50kph, on the grounds that there is are very faint yellow pictures of bicycles sprayed on the tarmac at various points.

And the crossings near work, where I think I've had 2 cyclists stop, so that I can cross, in 6 years.
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Old 20.04.2011, 16:16
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Re: Cyclists on pedestrian crossings

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Is that BBC radio 4, or is there a Swiss version of that veritable institution?
The BBC of course. You and Yours
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