You may find it hilarious, but I am in favour of people renting their lodgings. And I in my aparment here would NOT have the space for a washing machine. And this is the situation of many or most. The measurements of apartments here are clearly NOT placed to allow individual washing machines, and the organisation of most apartment blocks is geared towards communal washing machines.

This should also be obvious to dedicated snobs

i find it funny that you think switzerland is densely populated.

If you include the Alps which make up more than 50% of the territory, it may not be dramatic, but if you realize this, you see that it is the most densely populated country in Europe. The same if you take Germany as a whole it may not look dramatic, but if you realize that most of Germany takes place in the "Hamburg-Basel-Korridor" you realize where the German problem is. Similar to Italy. While areas like Calabria, Apulia and the Basilicata are rather empty, Emilia Romagna and Lombardia ARE densely populated. While countries like France and Britain are empty .

And if you place further artificial limitations on the areas you want to sample, London is much more densely populated than Zürich.

All of which has little to do with the fact that communal washing rooms suck. I want to be able to throw my dirty clothes directly in the wash and let them sit there till I'm ready to wash, not cart them up and down the stairs.

^So you are demanding extra resources because you are lazy?

No fuss about foreigners, Wolli, I said the opposite. I wrote, it is rather shocking at times, that in the country so obsessed with rules, to find onself fighting over simple schedule is absurd, and the way people fight, too. Had my share of laundry weirdness, mind you, with stuff stolen, etc. I actually think, that landry rooms and lists are not so convenient and it simply does not work for everyone, since people do have different lives. So, they move, get a washer, etc. Flexible. But some can't right away, so nagging about is pretty logical.

This bit I didn't understand too well in respect of doing laundry.

What's laundry have to do with moral judgement, makes me laugh here. I do get the fact this place is so expensive, simple washers cost a lot more than elsewhere, so people want to share one, easier to move without one, and so on. I do not think it is more ecological, since in some families with kids, washers are used every single day. Apartments are the same size as other countries where washers are installed in the individual household. What I get is, people move with their machines, where I am from, I can't see that working well, here, when people move in from abroad or come just with a few suitcases.

I would start a laundrymat, with a cafe, gig place, cheap resto and hang out, a couple of them in every bigger college town, that would be great. If I didn't choose a dif career

Wolli, capitalizing whole words is considered yelling..Thanks.

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"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

My point is that I absolutely understand hating laundry rooms because of the mandatory strange person that steals your underwear or randomly puts up the heat on your delicate fabrics. Shooting is too good for them, I tell you. But if it's purely for convenience reasons, then a lot of things would have to be different, no?
To me, the simplest solution would be that there is one key for the washing room, with a fixed rota and you pass on the key to each other at the proper time. Surely you can manage one fixed appointment in a week given how it would reduce your stress levels? A lot of the laundry room problems are due to infarctions that nobody owns up to, if it's absolutely clear who was in the room at what time and nobody else could enter, such discussions would become obsolete. If someone proves to be unable to follow protocol, then they can be addressed directly rather than having an array of passive aggressive notes that nobody feels concerned by.

You mean what people do in a dorm? I am not sure if that decreases stress levels, since the key is constantly either lost or someone hogs it the same way people squat washers here even if it is not their turn. Besides, a rotating key still needs a list , same ol' shtick.

I organized summer study programs overseas for 10yrs, we organized all, dorms, docs, programs, courses. That damn landry room key was the biggest headache. Don't ask what nationality kids didn't get the rotating system and squatted/lost the key constantly since they were used to large washers in their own homes (and moms who did the laundry)... And we did put a humongous deposit on that key, too. Every year, got lost, or somebody who wasn't on the list "borrowed it for a few days, can't be so criminal".

Sooner or later, everyone sane opted for laundrymats. Some kind of Dept. for Hygiene should sponsor those.

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"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

So we are back to the "any system is only as good as the weakest link within it", right?

This thread is to offload, it is obvious...so let's not expect some world saving inspirations here

But, I am not sure, actually. Maybe have cheapo student kind of electric washers imported (candy or so), have landloards agree that washers inside the apartments are standard every where else, have rota system out if it does not work, push people for more cooperation, who knows. You tell us, you been here for decades. I really do not get how somebody manages to have 2 wash days every three weeks (my friends have to do this) when you have a family with 2 kids and 2 adults. Makes me understand how people wear same sets of work clothes here sometimes 2-3 days in a row.

On the othe hand, I hand wash a lot of stuff and just saw a nifty foldable laundry rack over the tub at Lidl to bring. So, I think most people just cope, they have to. Doesn't mean it's not a pain.

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"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Depends whether the clothes are close to your torso/feet - a t-shirt should be changed every day, the jumper that goes over it not necessarily so, unless you've been frying chilli or something. Same goes for trousers, you wear underpants for a reason, no? Not washing everything right away not only saves time but is better for the environment.

If the laundry situation annoyed me that much, I would call for a meeting and have everyone sit down to discuss it (very Swiss, I know). Some people don't realise that their behaviour aggravates others, others may not understand how the machine works - for instance, our machine will take 187 minutes or 93 minutes for a 60° wash cycle, depending on what setting you pick.

"Should" is for your usual prototype, though. Not that I am a fan of wear-a-clean-pair-of-jeans-every-day, not at all. But your "should" does not fit everyone at all times. The fact that there is some kind of expected one pair of undies per day notion for all undie wearers (some people do not wear underwear, by the way), that I find Swiss, not the fact you want to meet up and negotiate, hahaha. And the fact, everything is possible to meet some normal standard elsewhere, but for more cash. That's when hand washing comes handy, and other home making fun.

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"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Well, some wear two pairs of pants per day because they go to the gym and so on - we're going into minutiae now. A lot of people are so utterly hell-bent on trying to change their surroundings to fit them rather than adapting how they do things to the situation at hand, it's just mind-boggling! So you don't have a washer in your apartment, well, then stock up on more socks, pants and t-shirts and care a little less whether the person at work is keeping tabs of whether you wore the same jumper yesterday. For families, yes, that is definitely hard, I see my mum's wash pile in the cellar and wonder how the heck you can produce so much laundry! But then my sister wears three different outfits a day, something she probably WOULDN'T do if we didn't have our own washing room...

prior to coming here I was in Cyprus on a UN tour for six months living at Ledra Palace Hotel... on each floor we had a room turned into a laundry room, with about 4 washers and dryers in each.... we had NO rota system, NOR any signs, NOR shitty messages. Everything ran like a well oiled machine.... you put your washing in a machine if it was free.... and if there was washing in one and it was finished you removed it and put it in a dryer.... if there was no dryer free you dumped it on top of a dryer...

this system worked perfectly....the only problems that ever occured was when people left coins in their pockets, but this meant you could have a dig thru the filters and you earnt yourself a few Euro's......

Definitely yes. And this in my view is a problem for the UK as a whole. That the London-plus-100-miles-around-it area makes up for a good part of the whole population. The situation in Paris is comparable. But both cities are surpassed by Greater Athens which population-wise makes up some 30% of Greece (or more).

Btw., even Japan has "empty" areas. In Japan, just as in Switzerland, less than 15% live in areas above 850 meters above sea-level.

I have 2 outfts a day basically.
Normal + jiujitsu. That also means that means that I wash uniforms daily.

My advantages are:

1) I'm on the ground floor, so any complains about laundry would come from me.
2) Nobody in the building really cares about the schedule and we work perfectly fine. The schedule has managed to either disappear or become some interesting origami figures.
3) Drunkie got evicted ergo more time for laundry.


I sometimes think that it is the fact that people see the schedule as such an imposition that make them behave assinine

Interesting point- works exactly like that in places like Holiday Inn Express or Courtyard or Residence Inn in the US - where people may find themselves stationed for a while for work and where the washing machines operate in the same manner you outline above.

I really think this must boil down to cultural differences. I guess it is the same principle as why they charge 50 rappen for crappy little mustard sachets at Moevenpick motorway service stations here. I once asked why and was met by a shocked stare and the exclamation that if they were not charged for then people would take them all!

My deduction from all of this is that in societies full to overflowing with rules people tend to get so stuck on the rules that common sense goes out the window. Such nannying by authority tends to make people more selfish and frustrated. It certainly does not make for a happy place for anyone who relsihes individualistic thought and can lead to the perception that one has entered an alternate reality populated by Stepford wives.

My other deduction is the extra we pay for a place with its own washer/dryer is well worth it. We consciously decided to live in a nice apartment and willingly forgo luxuries such as a car or regular eating out in order to maintain a decent nest.

I don't think the whole shared-laundry norm here is a good thing at all. I reckon it is responsible for some of the awful smelling people you encounter in a supermarket/train/tram/other public space towards the end of winter where their clothes are so stuffy from a mix of rising temperatures, accumulated tobacco smoke residue and lack of frequent washing that you'd think you were in a homeless shelter. Quite an anomaly in such a 'rich' country.

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Hah, I taught my brothers how to do their own laundry for the same reason, when we were young. Sometimes it is good to get involved in their lives to make mom's life better, innit. Plus their dorm survivor rate increased.

People do not seem to be too hellbent actually at all, they'd survive here for a week or two. Foreign cultures might be a lot more flexible and less ego centric than you realize. In fact, just to come here is so expensive it is rather humbling. Maybe it is the omnipresent mantra "count yourself lucky to be here and don't make waves" that gets old.

Changing surroundings could be better for the whole community, which people are trying to say here, aside of a simple nag. Works elsewhere, could work here, too. Simple customer rights (you rent, you want to rent with a washer, in my opinion, it will be that way, give it ten years, hoping the flat situ improves to give renters some pushing power). You don't have to feel like a Robin Hood when people nag about a very few things that bug them here, though. I know I get defensive the same way about pointless stuff back home, but when you realize lives of all could benefit, why not. Progress. It's ok to live in a country with almost perfect set up, minus the lame laundry scheme and a few irritating things. You won't hear the word perfect about any country.

(leaving counting of dirty knickers aside, hahaha).

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Wolli, do you know whether the rule about HAVING to have a drying room in rental apartments is still applicable? I wonder whether the strict adherence to this system also has to do with providing this space. Everywhere I've been, it has worked perfectly well, which leads me to believe it's not a system problem but a people problem. Not all apartments can be re-fitted with washers but renters CAN choose to NOT pick a place without its own washing facilities.

and an uncanny resemblance to "Pleasantville"