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Old 24.05.2011, 10:43
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unfair fine

Trying to struggle work and looking after a child is never easy so forgive me if being a busy working mum I may make a few mistakes.
I had resently come back from a wounderful road trip in Italy, for safetly took a smaller purse few credit cards. The next days on my return were pretty hectic and had to sqeeze in a Doctors appointment for my Daughter as well as a hundresd other things, rushing from tram to tram I get stopped by the control and asked for my ticket then I show it and then get asked for my Daughters pass so I go back into my purse for her pass, damm its not there, I had left it in my other purse at home.

I get given an fine Sfr80.00. So I tried to find out how I could get out of this fine as the pass was registered like the Halb tax, the thing is the pass is Sfr20:00 a year for my child as long as she travels with me no extra costs. The fine Sfr80:00 so a bit extreame I think.
If it was a Halb tax I forgot I would of only needed to pay Sfr5:00 at any SBB station and not the SFr80:00. I tried everything to try and reduce the fine even though it was registered they wouldnt let me off! Beware busy Mums this could happen to you!
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Old 24.05.2011, 10:45
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Re: unfair fine

Write to them, explaining the event clearly and ask them for a reduction ( which I got ) under a Fair Trading Policy clause.

Related thread:

ZVV fine ( a 6 year old kid was fined )

The SBB ( I know yours is likely an issue with the ZVV ) lost a recent court case and cannot fine someone who actually had a valid ticket to the extent it matches someone who never had a valid ticket, and hence there are legal grounds to have it reduced.

DE / translated EN


Last edited by jrspet; 24.05.2011 at 10:58.
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Old 24.05.2011, 10:57
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Re: unfair fine

Would you complain if you couldn't get on a plane without your passport?

Busy or not terms of carriage for discounted tickets are clear you need the relevant pass. So hardly surprising that with typical Swiss efficiency you pick up a fine for failure to comply. Be peeved (I would) but really it's your own fault... lessons learned and all that.
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:02
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Re: unfair fine

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...Beware busy Mums this could happen to you!
And dads. I carry those passes as well.
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:09
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Re: unfair fine

That is a bit harsh. In the TNW region you take the 80 CHF fine to the local office along with the pass that you forgot and you just have to pay a 5 CHF "numpty" fine. (Unless the ticket is transferable)
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:14
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Re: unfair fine

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Would you complain if you couldn't get on a plane without your passport?

Busy or not terms of carriage for discounted tickets are clear you need the relevant pass. So hardly surprising that with typical Swiss efficiency you pick up a fine for failure to comply. Be peeved (I would) but really it's your own fault... lessons learned and all that.
Would you get fined if you tried to get on a plane without a passport - which you had left at home?

Regarding the rail pass, leaving a valid pass at home is not really in the same league as blatantly avoiding payment.
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:17
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Re: unfair fine

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Would you get fined if you tried to get on a plane without a passport - which you had left at home?

Regarding the rail pass, leaving a valid pass at home is not really in the same league as blatantly avoiding payment.
No but I wouldn't complain about something that was my fault either. The point being if there are rules, and as we are in the land of rules, it shouldn't be a surprise when someone gets fined for failure to comply. Whether the OP is in possession of the pass (which she is) is not the issue as is the fine not for failure to produce the pass on request?
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:22
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Re: unfair fine

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: Beware busy Mums this could happen to you!
To be fair to the OP, I read it as ultimately a warning to others (not sure why it's just mums - perhaps she thinks Dads have nothing to do with their kids, aren't busy or never make mistakes).:
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:29
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Re: unfair fine

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That is a bit harsh. In the TNW region you take the 80 CHF fine to the local office along with the pass that you forgot and you just have to pay a 5 CHF "numpty" fine. (Unless the ticket is transferable)
Same thing happened to one of my neighbours. She did get a fine for 80CHF, but she took the fine paper and the year pass she had forgotten at home to the SBB office, and they exchanged it to a fine of 5 CHF instead. Just try to go to a counter and explain what happened A smile and a valid case will bring wonders!

Wonderful thing about this overly democratic country is: if you don't agree, you can complain and try to get it better. Might not work, but worth giving it a shot
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:32
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Re: unfair fine

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Would you complain if you couldn't get on a plane without your passport?
For the record, you don't legally need your passport if you are travelling within Schengen... but that's a whole different story and off-topic
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:33
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Re: unfair fine

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The SBB ( I know yours is likely an issue with the ZVV ) lost a recent court case and cannot fine someone who actually had a valid ticket to the extent it matches someone who never had a valid ticket, and hence there are legal grounds to have it reduced.

DE / translated EN

The case you are referring to was not with respect to the CHF 80.- administrative fine but with respect to the additional criminal sanction. Hence not applicable here.

For those interested in the rules and consequences of not having the Junior-Card with you:
http://data.ch-direct.org/Tarife/SBB/T600.3_d.pdf cf. section 22.00
http://data.ch-direct.org/Tarife/SBB/T600_d.pdf cf. section 60.00

and the SBB's rules are based on the
Federal Statute on the Transport of People
http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/7/745.1.de.pdf (not available in English)
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Last edited by Mica; 24.05.2011 at 11:44. Reason: added Federal Statute
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:33
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Re: unfair fine

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Same thing happened to one of my neighbours. She did get a fine for 80CHF, but she took the fine paper and the year pass she had forgotten at home to the SBB office, and they exchanged it to a fine of 5 CHF instead. Just try to go to a counter and explain what happened A smile and a valid case will bring wonders!

Wonderful thing about this overly democratic country is: if you don't agree, you can complain and try to get it better. Might not work, but worth giving it a shot
It makes sense. Until they see proof that you actually have a child pass, albeit left at home, they assume you do not possess one at all and fine you accordingly until you can prove that you do have one.

What I don't like about the Junior passes is that they are only valid when you child travels with the parents so the child has to pay if he is travelling with parents of a friend or grandparents etc. Of course, you could purchase additional passes but this wouldn't help for the odd trip here and there.
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:38
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Re: unfair fine

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Same thing happened to one of my neighbours. She did get a fine for 80CHF, but she took the fine paper and the year pass she had forgotten at home to the SBB office, and they exchanged it to a fine of 5 CHF instead. Just try to go to a counter and explain what happened A smile and a valid case will bring wonders!

Wonderful thing about this overly democratic country is: if you don't agree, you can complain and try to get it better. Might not work, but worth giving it a shot
Just so you don't get any wrong ideas - this is only for personal (non-transferable) abonnements. Any other, you will still be liable for a fine like any evader, unless they show mercy..
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:42
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Re: unfair fine

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No but I wouldn't complain about something that was my fault either. The point being if there are rules, and as we are in the land of rules, it shouldn't be a surprise when someone gets fined for failure to comply. Whether the OP is in possession of the pass (which she is) is not the issue as is the fine not for failure to produce the pass on request?

You're being very harsh, the thread starter is just trying to warn others about what happened.
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:45
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Re: unfair fine

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Just so you don't get any wrong ideas - this is only for personal (non-transferable) abonnements. Any other, you will still be liable for a fine like any evader, unless they show mercy..
Doesn't the junior pass have a name printed on it? (sorry I never bought one so have no idea... )
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:49
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Re: unfair fine

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Doesn't the junior pass have a name printed on it? (sorry I never bought one so have no idea... )
Honestly, I wouldn't know... just as a general info in regards to tickets & fines.
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:50
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Re: unfair fine

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Doesn't the junior pass have a name printed on it? (sorry I never bought one so have no idea... )
Yup, as well as the parent's names and (at least) one signature.
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:51
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Re: unfair fine

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Doesn't the junior pass have a name printed on it? (sorry I never bought one so have no idea... )
Yes - child's name and guardian's name(s). The child can only travel with the named person on the card but you can get a second one free so both a mother and a father can travel independently with the child.
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Old 24.05.2011, 12:03
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Re: unfair fine

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I get given an fine Sfr80.00. So I tried to find out how I could get out of this fine as the pass was registered like the Halb tax, the thing is the pass is Sfr20:00 a year for my child as long as she travels with me no extra costs. The fine Sfr80:00 so a bit extreame I think.
If it was a Halb tax I forgot I would of only needed to pay Sfr5:00 at any SBB station and not the SFr80:00. I tried everything to try and reduce the fine even though it was registered they wouldnt let me off! Beware busy Mums this could happen to you!
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The point being blah blah...
Not sure if you got the OP's point. The point is, te juniorkarte is an almost freebie (20chf last year, not it is 30 chf per year and you get 2 cards one for mum and one for dad, and in the larger scheme of things it is practically a freebie. I can't seriously think anyone would try to cheat the system on this ). Treating it at par with ticketless travel seems out of proportion.

Not that they don't know it...so there is a fair amount of variability in how they treat the cases. Last year my wife travelled from Ruti to Zurich and had left the card behind. They said something like 40 or 80 Chf, but later came down to just making her buy the regular ticket (20 chf) for the child. She said can't you wait 10 mins, the dad is supposed to pick us up at HB and he will have his copy to produce, but they didn't agree, but that's OK.

Yesterday she was caught again, this time saying her surname on the Half tax and Junior card don't match (WTF a minor clerical error on their part). Same bluster of 80 CHF etc, then wife said politely F-off, then they said OK, at least go to the SBB and get the error rectified. She went their, and the desk clerk laughed and said it happens, occasionally you get bored gits as inspectors, don't bother, and sent her back without rectifying it

Tom: I agree it may seem commonsensical that if you left it at home you just pay 80 CHF and get back 75 from the counter once you retrieve the card, but that doesn't seem to be the case always.
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Old 24.05.2011, 12:03
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Re: unfair fine

Ah, great! Then the outpost should really try her luck with the SBB
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