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Old 29.05.2011, 00:53
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Re: Kids in blackface

Do you have any idea how many German festivals happen all over the US? You can go to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania; in fact, just about anywhere in the midwest and German people dress up in traditional German costume to celebrate their roots (In fact, it is the US's largest self reported ancestral group at 17% of the population).

As a typical American mix of German/French/Norwegian, I have celebrated with lederhosen, horned helmets and berets at many family parties. And as my family are all a shade of "white" how is this racist?

I don't see how this compares to wearing blackface. You should also understand, in the US, there was a tradition of blackface in minstrel and vaudeville shows that did portray American racist stereotypes at the time. So I think many Americans are particularly sensitive to this type of thing today.

I am afraid that this thread has just spun out of control as I see many axes being ground for one reason or another.

fduvall

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yes, Americans dressing up as a caricature of Germans. Or is it only about race? what if the girls were lighter skinned africans and had made themselves darker, would that be ok?
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  #262  
Old 29.05.2011, 00:54
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Re: Kids in blackface

Guys, keep the good work up... this is better than watching a movie.

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  #263  
Old 29.05.2011, 00:58
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Re: Kids in blackface

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And who said anything about red lips?

Tom
Well, I bitch at my girlfriend all the time for using red lipsitck, but has this to do with black people?

Tom
  #264  
Old 29.05.2011, 00:59
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Re: Kids in blackface

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I've seen this portrayal at Fastnacht here, Black face with big red lips.
I've seen people wearing ponchos and sombreros? what's your point?
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Old 29.05.2011, 01:00
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Re: Kids in blackface

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I've seen people wearing ponchos and sombreros? what's your point?
I saw a clown with fat red lips....he even......


Whitened up his face

*insert dramatic music*
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Old 29.05.2011, 01:01
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Re: Kids in blackface

The term "Blackface" in the US comes from a period where minstrel and Vaudeville acts had white actors with painted faces performing "comedy" acts.
It is not a term that is used very often anymore except to describe this.

As I used to live in Sweden in the 80's, I found the term "svarteskalle" to describe just about anyone not Aryan (Italian/Greek/Slavic/Arab/Black). So we find these things in many countries and cultures, no?

fduvall

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Frankly, I find the term "blackface" far more offensive than kids dressed as tribal africans with painted faces.
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Old 29.05.2011, 01:02
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Re: Kids in blackface

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Do you have any idea how many German festivals happen all over the US? You can go to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania; in fact, just about anywhere in the midwest and German people dress up in traditional German costume to celebrate their roots (In fact, it is the US's largest self reported ancestral group at 17% of the population).

As a typical American mix of German/French/Norwegian, I have celebrated with lederhosen, horned helmets and berets at many family parties. And as my family are all a shade of "white" how is this racist?

I don't see how this compares to wearing blackface. You should also understand, in the US, there was a tradition of blackface in minstrel and vaudeville shows that did portray American racist stereotypes at the time. So I think many Americans are particularly sensitive to this type of thing today.

I am afraid that this thread has just spun out of control as I see many axes being ground for one reason or another.

fduvall
Yes, sadly there are a lot of blind people out there.
  #268  
Old 29.05.2011, 01:04
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Re: Kids in blackface

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I've seen people wearing ponchos and sombreros? what's your point?
You don't wear ponchos and sombreros in Mexico?
  #269  
Old 29.05.2011, 01:04
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Re: Kids in blackface

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I've seen this portrayal at Fastnacht here, Black face with big red lips.
Well, they're idiots. They should have WHITE lips!

Tom
  #270  
Old 29.05.2011, 01:06
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Re: Kids in blackface

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Do you have any idea how many German festivals happen all over the US? You can go to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania; in fact, just about anywhere in the midwest and German people dress up in traditional German costume to celebrate their roots (In fact, it is the US's largest self reported ancestral group at 17% of the population).

As a typical American mix of German/French/Norwegian, I have celebrated with lederhosen, horned helmets and berets at many family parties. And as my family are all a shade of "white" how is this racist?

I don't see how this compares to wearing blackface. You should also understand, in the US, there was a tradition of blackface in minstrel and vaudeville shows that did portray American racist stereotypes at the time. So I think many Americans are particularly sensitive to this type of thing today.

I am afraid that this thread has just spun out of control as I see many axes being ground for one reason or another.

fduvall
The German lederhosen part was in response to someone saying they use chinese stereotypes which is also offensive in his opinion.

So the Lederhosen bit was a German stereotype.
  #271  
Old 29.05.2011, 01:06
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Re: Kids in blackface

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You don't wear ponchos and sombreros in Mexico?
Clint did in 'Per un Pugno di Dollari'.

But that was in Spain.

Tom
  #272  
Old 29.05.2011, 01:07
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Re: Kids in blackface

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Classrooms are to be comfortable for everybody. Where we live and work, it is more than 50% foreign. If you want to have international classroom (1) in an international school, you might also want to adjust the local habits to not be offensive to the kids from abroad. Easy.


She wasn't happy with the situ, (2) wanted to share her opinion, maybe get some debate going on. Why go into great lenghts, and have people who weren't there hostile towards OP, or groan people who actually see the point of what she was trying to say. I don't get it, but I might really be slow. Plus, come from a different culture. Which used to be redneck and I am glad it curbed the "innocent" ways of celebrating cultures, since they understand some people might not be happy with it.



(3) Yeah. What's fascinating are the legal racist campaigns here. That would be illegal anywhere else I have lived.
1- Where did she say it was an international school? "Minus 1 million points for the Swiss school system!" Sounds like a Swiss school, and by extension we logically think that these are Swiss people. The only people who get worked up over blackface are Yanks.

The odd thing is, Robert Downey Jr.'s role in Tropic Thunder was screened for and approved by the NAACP.

Then Beyonce Knowles wears blackface and it's a controversy.
That's the U.S. But not here.

2- One can certainly state their opinion, and especially in Complaints Corner. But the opinion offered was offensive to a lot of people, and was delivered in a way that didn't invite debate at all.

3- This statement, in the context of the thread, really implies that the Swiss are more racist than what would be considered normal (there are always jerks in any culture), and we, the enlightened foreigners, need to set them straight. Sure, the racist campaigns are from a small faction, but they are allowed, so those allowing them are sympathizers, right? Well, in the U.S., the KKK are allowed to demonstrate publicly, as are anti-abortion groups outside clinics with their awful images- that's free speech. When we control every movement and action so that no one can be offended any longer, so that everything is fair, all of the time, we end up with something very far from freedom.
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Old 29.05.2011, 01:07
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Re: Kids in blackface

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I've seen people wearing ponchos and sombreros? what's your point?
Ok wanna be gangsta rapper, don't cut me please.
My point is that portraying blacks, or anyone in a negative stereotype is wrong and offensive. If you fail to comprehend this then there is not much I can do, except maybe write a dope rap about it.
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Old 29.05.2011, 01:12
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Re: Kids in blackface

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1- Where did she say it was an international school? "Minus 1 million points for the Swiss school system!" Sounds like a Swiss school, and by extension we logically think that these are Swiss people. The only people who get worked up over blackface are Yanks.

The odd thing is, Robert Downey Jr.'s role in Tropic Thunder was screened for and approved by the NAACP.

Then Beyonce Knowles wears blackface and it's a controversy.
That's the U.S. But not here.

2- One can certainly state their opinion, and especially in Complaints Corner. But the opinion offered was offensive to a lot of people, and was delivered in a way that didn't invite debate at all.

3- This statement, in the context of the thread, really implies that the Swiss are more racist than what would be considered normal (there are always jerks in any culture), and we, the enlightened foreigners, need to set them straight. Sure, the racist campaigns are from a small faction, but they are allowed, so those allowing them are sympathizers, right? Well, in the U.S., the KKK are allowed to demonstrate publicly, as are anti-abortion groups outside clinics with their awful images- that's free speech. When we control every movement and action so that no one can be offended any longer, so that everything is fair, all of the time, we end up with something very far from freedom.
I know many Brits here that are offended by it also.
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Old 29.05.2011, 01:12
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Re: Kids in blackface

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Ok wanna be gangsta rapper, don't cut me please.
My point is that portraying blacks, or anyone in a negative stereotype is wrong and offensive. If you fail to comprehend this then there is not much I can do, except maybe write a dope rap about it.



as porsch told you, painting yourself black, or putting sombreros and ponchos do not enforce any bad stereotypes. is your messed up bias mind that does.


ah and for your info

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Old 29.05.2011, 01:14
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Re: Kids in blackface

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I know many Brits here that are offended by it also.
name one.

In this thread you have Americans on one side (and I include Canada but not Mexico) and everyone else disagreeing.
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Old 29.05.2011, 01:19
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Re: Kids in blackface

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name one.

In this thread you have Americans on one side (and I include Canada but not Mexico) and everyone else disagreeing.
Hey! I'm a Yank!

From the deepest of the Deep South. Spent countless hours of my youth hanging out with and talking to black dudes young and old. The one and only time the subject of racism came up, ever was with one guy. He had green eyes, and he said some black folks ridiculed him for being mixed.

Same guy once turned to me out of the blue and said, "You know what? I think Jesus is just a state of mind." Hallelujah for stereotypes .

Edit- one other dude told me about being called "boy" when he was in his early twenties, which would have been late 1940s. He asked the man who said it to please address him as "Mr.", which he then did. I know race relations aren't that simple across the board, but they aren't all blood and gore and horribleness either. None of the above dudes get the whole 'african american' thing either. Poor uneducated black dudes. They need to be instructed in how bad they have it.

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Old 29.05.2011, 01:19
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Re: Kids in blackface

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as porsch told you, painting yourself black, or putting sombreros and ponchos do not enforce any bad stereotypes. is your messed up bias mind that does.
Sorry, but I disagree with that, and thankfully most intelligent members of society would disagree also. It is part and partial of a racist portrayal of a group of people. It's funny how it's always the group doing the portayal that says it's not offensive. Well, I can tell you that black people do find it offensive,and my Chinese friend here, found the portrayal of the Chinese offensive also. But keep on believing what you believe only change can come from within. Good luck with that

Roland
  #279  
Old 29.05.2011, 01:20
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Re: Kids in blackface

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I don't see how this compares to wearing blackface. You should also understand, in the US, there was a tradition of blackface in minstrel and vaudeville shows that did portray American racist stereotypes at the time. So I think many Americans are particularly sensitive to this type of thing today.
Yes. I would say if somebody grew up in that culture and got outsourced to represent it here at work setting, I would understand the shock watching some kids putting black paint on their face. If the scenario happened in a small, local village school, or school with small ratio of foreign kids, I would also understand the push for newcomers to accept the "unpc" ways and celebrate (I do have the same sentiment, too, since I grew up that way. We were playing native americans, though, painting faces, etc.) so I see the point of antipc brigade.

But our area is so not like this. You don't really hear French outside that much. It's cosmo, and more worldly than anywhere in the world I have lived. So, if people have to be sensitive about world cultures, it is here. And teachers are in the first front, school is where cultures mix, where kids get taught tolerance and where they learn new concepts, ie what can be perceived racist and why, schools are tough since kids are naturally unpc. Yet, you have other kids in the class that might not appreciate overt unpc. All the little even if well meant jabs can be turned innocent, with the help of the teacher, though. And explained. But it is not always easy.

I also think teens do know, by now, anywhere. If the kids were small, I'd get it. And probably join in, as a proper hillbilly.

I do not think it would be clever to go after the parents, though. Their ways are a lot more imprinted. It works the other way too, kids influencing folks. I love teaching kids, since they soak up anything. I don't tell them don't be racist. I tell them, this, in different setting could be viewed rasist, because of these historical reasons. Kids are smart. Those wanting to stick to their culture, will always do it. Those who want to think about it, have their chance. And they can make up their minds. It's indirect, letting them decide. But, somehow, it works. Kids may be naturally unpc, but they are so smart. And don't want to hurt other people's feelings, either. Feeding some panick is not too contructive, getting mad. But talking, showing them films, making them mindful of their words and behavior. The sensitive ones usually toughen up healthy ways, and the offenders usually curb their pokes.
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Old 29.05.2011, 01:22
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Re: Kids in blackface

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Hey! I'm a Yank!
Never mind. That can happen in the best families...

Can we just conclude the topic?


In the words of my favourite black sports star:

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