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  #381  
Old 30.05.2011, 10:29
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Re: Kids in blackface

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There are very few countries that did not practice and profit from slavery, why the guilt? We should also be ashamed and feel guilty of every other bad thing that our ancestors have done; wars, torture and so on.
But why should people living today need to feel shame for slavery?
Exactly, where to put the stopline for the claims and responsibility? Should we, and our children feel guilty up to the seventh generation? I don't think so - it is the past. Furthermore history is being written by the winners.
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  #382  
Old 30.05.2011, 10:48
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Re: Kids in blackface

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Exactly, where to put the stopline for the claims and responsibility? Should we, and our children feel guilty up to the seventh generation? I don't think so - it is the past. Furthermore history is being written by the winners.
I am sure that descendents of slaves must feel the same - it must be a thorn in the side to constantly have the past dredged up in the form of well-meaning directives to stop the merest of mentions of that awful time, then everyone making a big song and dance and pointing fingers as soon as someone puts a toe over the line.

If it were me, I would be silently screaming "Yes, thanks. It's lovely that you are so concerned about what happened to my ancestors but can we please bury it now??"
  #383  
Old 30.05.2011, 11:41
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Re: Kids in blackface

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I am sure that descendents of slaves must feel the same - it must be a thorn in the side to constantly have the past dredged up in the form of well-meaning directives to stop the merest of mentions of that awful time, then everyone making a big song and dance and pointing fingers as soon as someone puts a toe over the line.

If it were me, I would be silently screaming "Yes, thanks. It's lovely that you are so concerned about what happened to my ancestors but can we please bury it now??"

Actually, a black guy I used to date brought up the topic of Slavery Reparations to me... some folks want it, some don't. The problem is that it goes further than the lack of "40 acres and a mule" 150 years ago, there is also the subsequent treatment of African Americans right up through present day. (Which is actually the problem with "blackface" makeup style, it has to do with treatment of "blacks" POST slavery - although they were "free" they were still treated as "less"... and in some areas of the US, still are.)

For me it is an odd subject as much of my growing up was spent on military bases, with friends of all races and my family always treated all of my friends like there was no difference between us AND their families treated me the same. The only time that differences came up were when it came to meal times and some of the associated things. I remember being over at my best friend's house when we were about 9, her mother had a hot comb out to straighten her hair and I, having wild hair myself, asked her to do mine too. She had quite a chuckle about how the comb would burn my hair off instead of doing what I was wanting. Fond memories for my friend and I now, after having "found" each other again.

Anyhow, this guy I used to date was of a divided mind about Slavery Reparations. On one hand, he thinks that folks ARE owed, on the other hand, he thinks that no amount of financial compensation is enough and the best thing is to move forward. Personally, I think the answer lay somewhere between.
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  #384  
Old 30.05.2011, 12:17
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Re: Kids in blackface

  #385  
Old 30.05.2011, 12:20
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Re: Kids in blackface

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Anyhow, this guy I used to date was of a divided mind about Slavery Reparations. On one hand, he thinks that folks ARE owed, on the other hand, he thinks that no amount of financial compensation is enough and the best thing is to move forward. Personally, I think the answer lay somewhere between.
1. Reparations are racist. There is no one alive now who kept slaves and debts cannot be passed on, father to son. The only explanation or "logic" behind reparations is that money is owed by the White Race. To think of a race so corporately is racism in it's ugliest form.

2. What on earth does any of this have to do with Switzerland?
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  #386  
Old 30.05.2011, 12:39
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Re: Kids in blackface

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1. Reparations are racist. There is no one alive now who kept slaves and debts cannot be passed on, father to son. The only explanation or "logic" behind reparations is that money is owed by the White Race. To think of a race so corporately is racism in it's ugliest form.

2. What on earth does any of this have to do with Switzerland?
Hey, I didn't bring it up, I merely responded.

I believe it was some of the non-Americans (from whichever country *eyeroll*) who suggested that the OP's objection to "blackface" was because of guilt over slavery. So, following that logic, blackface here is relevant to slavery in the US because someone who lives here now was offended by it.

Does that clear things up for you, sugarpie?

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  #387  
Old 30.05.2011, 12:44
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Re: Kids in blackface

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Hey, I didn't bring it up, I merely responded.

I believe it was some of the non-Americans (from whichever country *eyeroll*) who suggested that the OP's objection to "blackface" was because of guilt over slavery. So, following that logic, blackface here is relevant to slavery in the US because someone who lives here now was offended by it.

Does that clear things up for you, sugarpie?
Nope. There was no blackface. There was dark facepaint to look like an African.
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  #388  
Old 30.05.2011, 13:26
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Re: Kids in blackface

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Nope. There was no blackface. There was dark facepaint to look like an African.

Oh? You saw it?

I'm not saying you are wrong as I know I didn't see it. I'm just surprised that you saw it too and didn't say something about it earlier. That would have saved everyone from having to find all those ridiculous animal pictures showing how much they don't care.
  #389  
Old 30.05.2011, 13:30
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Oh? You saw it?
Excuse me: this is NOT AMERICA. "Blackface" is an American term, an American concept. They weren't in blackface by virtue of the fact that they were Swiss in Switzerland.
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Old 30.05.2011, 14:12
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Re: Kids in blackface

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I think your inner fairy has lost to your inner racist... Your disgust at these children is just a failed projection of racial intolerance and your rant cum secret call to the EF "whites only" has failed miserably.
True lack of racial discrimination only happens when the internal barriers of the mind have been erased and "the inner fairy" in me only sees or speaks to the "inner fairy" in the other person.

However, don't think this lies within the field of teaching to bring this about - more pyschiatrists, pyscologists or buddhist monks. The best a teacher can hope to achieve is PC conformity i.e., going through the motions.

Most Africans can and do suss out the difference at a glance from miles away.
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Old 30.05.2011, 14:28
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Re: Kids in blackface

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True lack of racial discrimination only happens when the internal barriers of the mind have been erased and "the inner fairy" in me only sees or speaks to the "inner fairy" in the other person.

However, don't think this lies within the field of teaching to bring this about - more pyschiatrists, pyscologists or buddhist monks. The best a teacher can hope to achieve is PC conformity i.e., going through the motions.

Most Africans can and do suss out the difference at a glance from miles away.
I am pretty sure that I do discriminate less than most others. But if your inner fairy gets too close to me, I'll bitchslap her.
  #392  
Old 30.05.2011, 14:31
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Re: Kids in blackface

Have I missed something? Where is the US now defining "how every other country should handle this?" I think the topic has drifted off into how context can be very important and the "American context" came up as a point of discussion. It is relevant, as the OP comes from "North America," and could explain why she was shocked by what she saw.

And as for this BS about US cultural imperialism... I don't think Obama is forcing Swiss children to dress like Eminem!

And thanks for another generalization about all of us "US Americans" telling you how "to live your traditions and culture." I see quite a lot of the same coming from several EF members from MANY countries.

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I really object to the historic simplification and even dillution of the term slavery. (taking unpaid internships is something entirely different from being a slave I hope you'd agree)
There are very few countries that did not practice and profit from slavery, why the guilt? We should also be ashamed and feel guilty of every other bad thing that our ancestors have done; wars, torture and so on.
But why should people living today need to feel shame for slavery?
And why is the US in some way exemplary of how every other country should handle this? I react somewhat allergic to this cultural imperialism, it always seems to be U.S. Americans that tell others how to live their traditions and culture and what is appropriate and what not.
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Old 30.05.2011, 14:46
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Re: Kids in blackface

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And thanks for another generalization about all of us "US Americans" telling you how "to live your traditions and culture." I see quite a lot of the same coming from several EF members from MANY countries.
I agree...
I think every nation has its share of blind patriots and ethnocentric fools who like to mistake their subjective opinion for a more general, objective truth.
  #394  
Old 30.05.2011, 14:58
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Re: Kids in blackface

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I agree...
I think every nation has its share of blind patriots and ethnocentric fools who like to mistake their subjective opinion for a more general, objective truth.
No worries, we all love, er, America... for what you are and what you are doing. Go on and kill some terrorists for us...




Now can we get back to SWISS children in SWITZERLAND dressing up as Africans? Or is the question maybe answered by now? The OP overreacted based on her, er, "North American" cultural background. While we cannot rule out that the kids did in fact plan something unbelievably bad, we can conclude that they most likely didn't and most likely did not do anything racist either.
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  #395  
Old 30.05.2011, 15:01
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Re: Kids in blackface

Aaahhhh now we are talking! Reperations for past mis-deeds!

Morocco used to raid Britain and take off the populations of little seaside villages for slaves back in Morocco.

That means my brother-in-law (a British subject) could claim some reparation from Morocco for some of his ancient relatives being forcibly removed and taken for lives of slavery....?

Ja, you can still see the little off-loading ramp at an old harbour there, where the slaves were landed.

And one of my great-great-great-great-grandfathers was exiled to the Cape by the British, from his home in India, back in 1600`s, forcibly taken and dumped in an un-inhabited land! Think I have some chance of monetary compensation for his suffering?........ I`m sure I could dig up some more stuff from the past if I really tried ......especially if there was some lovely lolly involved.........

Oh yes ....! .. The South African Government, some time back, before I was born, forcibly seperated my family tree into different "colour" people, but I`m sure I could trace up the other side who suffered more than me, if I really tried, and had the time to waste.

But I think it`s time to go weed the garden ... again ... and lie in the sun .... again .. and do other stuff.

Politics ... and religion .. make awful discussions, with never a satisfactory outcome.
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Old 30.05.2011, 15:04
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Re: Kids in blackface

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Politics ... and religion .. make awful discussions, with never a satisfactory outcome.
But the difference between the two is that religion is curable. (that should get this thread on for another two pages or so...)
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Old 30.05.2011, 15:05
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Re: Kids in blackface

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No worries, we all love, er, America... for what you are and what you are doing. Go on and kill some terrorists for us...




Now can we get back to SWISS children in SWITZERLAND dressing up as Africans? Or is the question maybe answered by now? The OP overreacted based on her, er, "North American" cultural background. While we cannot rule out that the kids did in fact plan something unbelievably bad, we can conclude that they most likely didn't and most likely did not do anything racist either.
If I dress up in a Swiss Traditional Costume .. the white stockings, long stripey skirt with embroidery and apron, and paint my face a pale shade of pinky white ......(because my own face is too tanned)...... Will that be "racist"? .. racist "up".. or racist "down"....? Is the term racist considered looking down on a race, or looking up, or just looking?
  #398  
Old 30.05.2011, 15:06
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(that should get this thread on for another two pages or so...)
Rather not though chap.
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