 | | | 
27.05.2011, 15:52
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,403
Groaned at 365 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 23,772 Times in 8,603 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | BTW, all those groans for the OP are pretty pathetic.
Criticizing her for what you assume to be her lack of cultural insight here while not taking HER cultural background into account is pretty ignorant me thinks. | | | | | Me thinks you are losing it and that statements like this one are well worth groaning: | Quote: | |  | | | God forbid that the icky foreign value of respect for other cultures and races should 'swamp' Switzerland. | | | | | Looks like most simply picked the first post to express the feeling they got over the entire thread about the OP. That's why the number of groans slowly increased over the day as the discussion developed. | Quote: | |  | | | So, you may as well groan yourselves for not taking her culture into account. | | | | | Ok, I take into account that the OP is Canadian. Does that allow her to say that Switzerland lacks respect?
| The following 5 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 15:53
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baden
Posts: 3,348
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,743 Times in 2,185 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | I see it will be an uphill battle to raise sensitive, respectful, culturally-aware kids in this country, if these girls were allowed to leave their homes and go to school dressed in such an offensive manner.
Perhaps it's my North American political correctness, but given the degree of racism experienced by Africans here, not to mention the history of European colonialism in Africa, you'd think schools would be educating kids, not encouraging such a disgusting level of willful ignorance. Minus 1 million points for the Swiss school system! | | | | | | Quote: | |  | | |
Edit:
BTW, all those groans for the OP are pretty pathetic.
Criticizing her for what you assume to be her lack of cultural insight here while not taking HER cultural background into account is pretty ignorant me thinks. WE ALL go through stages of figuring out what parts of our "old" culture are things we wish to embrace or lose and plenty of those cultural reactions are so ingrained we simply don't think about them... until something (like kids dressing up in FULLY "authentic" costumes) comes along to shake us up and have a look at how our "old" culture differs from where we find ourselves now.
So, you may as well groan yourselves for not taking her culture into account. | | | | |
I think is this end all be all "this sh1t is offensive" that gets the groans. and the swiss system encouraging.. etc etc etc" I'm offended does not equal It's offensive
There's a mexican saying." el que en pan piensa, hambre tiene" "he who in bread thinks, it's hungry". If you see that in a harmless display of kids, well you have to look at yourself and what makes you so irritated.
| The following 2 users would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 15:58
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,158
Groaned at 309 Times in 265 Posts
Thanked 23,416 Times in 9,523 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | ... So, if a black person painted their face white would that cause the same reaction? Is "white" somehow superior to "black"? | | | | | It is when it comes to ability to create vitamin D in weaker sunlight.
| 
27.05.2011, 15:59
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | A distinction:
Blackening up your face for fancy dress - ok
Blackening up your face and acting like a chimp- offensive  | | | | | Yup. This thread was resolved on the first page. It's the intention behind the act that counts.
| This user would like to thank Russkov for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 16:01
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,193
Groaned at 290 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 10,980 Times in 4,130 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface
I grew up near Detroit, and that entire area is infamous for having extremely high racial tensions. I would put money on it that, if some white person walked down the street there with a "blackface," he or she would have the **** beaten out of them in no time (and perhaps rightly so, considering the amount of racism that African Americans have had to endure for so long and how hard they've had to fight for their freedom).
I suspect (or would at least hope) that the Swiss would be more sensitive to the "blackface" thing if there were more Africans here and especially if Switzerland had a history of racism against them, as the US does. (In fact, I myself am actually a bit amazed when I realize how often I do NOT see black people here).
Anyways, having grown up in such a racist environment, I have (thankfully) never managed to become de-sensitized to it. And, as a white person, I really do try to remain "racially sensitive" because I know that what may not offend one person may offend another.
I also would have felt like my integrity was a bit offended if I had seen those white girls walking down the street with "blackfaces." But at the same time, I'd need to step back and consider the context and intention.
| The following 4 users would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 16:04
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,403
Groaned at 365 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 23,772 Times in 8,603 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | There's a mexican saying." el que en pan piensa, hambre tiene" "he who in bread thinks, it's hungry". | | | | | | 
27.05.2011, 16:06
| Banned | | Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Graubünden
Posts: 636
Groaned at 69 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 421 Times in 255 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface
Its only offensive because its easier for white kids to paint their complexion dark but for dark kids it would be quite difficult to do that, unless they go Michael Jackson.
| 
27.05.2011, 16:09
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Basel
Posts: 4,422
Groaned at 158 Times in 125 Posts
Thanked 5,428 Times in 2,510 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | Looks like most simply picked the first post to express the feeling they got over the entire thread about the OP. That's why the number of groans slowly increased over the day as the discussion developed. | | | | | And that's what makes it ignorant and pathetic.
I know that I certainly didn't drop all the expectations and anticipations I'd developed "back home" as soon as I applied for my first permit, I'm sure no one else did either.
So, to groan at her for her "knee jerk" reaction just proves that "you" still have preconceived notions about what people should expect and anticipate from others as well. You're the same... groan yourself.
| This user groans at Peg A for this post: | | 
27.05.2011, 16:12
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baden
Posts: 3,348
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,743 Times in 2,185 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | And that's what makes it ignorant and pathetic.
I know that I certainly didn't drop all the expectations and anticipations I'd developed "back home" as soon as I applied for my first permit, I'm sure no one else did either.
So, to groan at her for her "knee jerk" reaction just proves that "you" still have preconceived notions about what people should expect and anticipate from others as well. You're the same... groan yourself. | | | | | | This user would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 16:15
|  | Moddy Wellies | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,729
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,942 Times in 3,654 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | I even learned in an Anthropology class that they may be losing melatonin in their skin, through evolution, because of migrating to colder climates and no longer needing the higher levels of melatonin to protect them from African sun. | | | | | Is that really how evolution works?
| 
27.05.2011, 16:15
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,128
Groaned at 38 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 1,392 Times in 521 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | The following 2 users would like to thank monkeynut for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 16:16
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,193
Groaned at 290 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 10,980 Times in 4,130 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | Its only offensive because its easier for white kids to paint their complexion dark but for dark kids it would be quite difficult to do that, unless they go Michael Jackson. | | | | | I think Micheal Jackson really may have had that "disease," though (where his complexion is lightening in blotchy spots). I went to a college of about 3,000 people in the US and there were at least 10 black people there who had that "disease." It almost looked as if their skin was peeling off and I certainly couldn't blame anyone for wanting to conceal it. I even learned in an Anthropology class that they may be losing melatonin in their skin, through evolution, because of migrating to colder climates and no longer needing the higher levels of melatonin to protect them from African sun. Sorry that this is off topic. | 
27.05.2011, 16:16
| Member | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Brooklyn, USA
Posts: 103
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 88 Times in 33 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface
Let's flip the script. What if 2 black students came to school dressed in stereotypical traditional Swiss attire. To make the costume authentic, they apply white face paint and put on blond wigs.
Would this be offensive or just a bad costume?
| 
27.05.2011, 16:19
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,193
Groaned at 290 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 10,980 Times in 4,130 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | Is that really how evolution works? | | | | | (Sorry I deleted my post before realizing you had quoted it, and then I re-posted).
But, yes -- I do believe that evolution works primarily according to "environmental necessity", and I suspect that Darwin would agree.
| 
27.05.2011, 16:21
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,128
Groaned at 38 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 1,392 Times in 521 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | Let's flip the script. What if 2 black students came to school dressed in stereotypical traditional Swiss attire. To make the costume authentic, they apply white face paint and put on blond wigs.
Would this be offensive or just a bad costume? | | | | | depends.. if they sat around with stony faces, eating fondu and putting on skis then this would be fine
| The following 4 users would like to thank monkeynut for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 16:23
|  | Junior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: bern
Posts: 97
Groaned at 39 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 115 Times in 40 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface
Frankly, I find the term "blackface" far more offensive than kids dressed as tribal africans with painted faces.
| The following 7 users would like to thank swedishguy for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 16:24
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,128
Groaned at 38 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 1,392 Times in 521 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | This user would like to thank monkeynut for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 16:26
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Zürich
Posts: 687
Groaned at 23 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 757 Times in 331 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | (Sorry I deleted my post before realizing you had quoted it, and then I re-posted).
But, yes -- I do believe that evolution works primarily according to "environmental necessity", and I suspect that Darwin would agree. | | | | | So many things fundamentally wrong with this statement...
Please look it up... you don't just magically change to suit your environment, it's a very long process involving many many many generations.
Edit: | Quote: | |  | | | I help run an online Science job board | | | | | WTF!!!! how!!!
| This user would like to thank Fridge for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 16:27
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,390
Groaned at 128 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 3,488 Times in 1,377 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | Let's flip the script. What if 2 black students came to school dressed in stereotypical traditional Swiss attire. To make the costume authentic, they apply white face paint and put on blond wigs.
Would this be offensive or just a bad costume? | | | | | Neither. It would be a great costume and I'd have a good laugh. That's what costumes, humour, carneval, dressing up is for - having a laugh at things and not taking things too seriously to defuse and make light of tensions in a society. There are many festivals like that all over the world, and they all seem to serve a very similar purpose. (What was that ancient Roman festival called again where slaves would celebrate as equals with their masters and even ridicule them?)
That said, it's great to be sensitive and considerate in daily life, but when it gets enforced through laws and customs it can easily become a very oppressive force. And it's a typical cultural trait of the Swiss to oppose such tendencies, hence the very un-PC culture here. We could endlessly discuss the relative advantages of hidden vs. open racism and prejudices but that's not the point. The OP herself was just so much more ignorant and culturally insensitive with her rant than those kids ever could be, hence the many, imho fully deserved groans.
| The following 2 users would like to thank simon_ch for this useful post: | | 
27.05.2011, 16:28
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baden
Posts: 3,348
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,743 Times in 2,185 Posts
| | Re: Kids in blackface | Quote: | |  | | | Let's flip the script. What if 2 black students came to school dressed in stereotypical traditional Swiss attire. To make the costume authentic, they apply white face paint and put on blond wigs.
Would this be offensive or just a bad costume? | | | | |
Chapelle did it in his show. I found it hilarious!
| This user would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:09. | |