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  #81  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:07
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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This somehow makes it better?

Why are the beliefs of others always pushed? What if I like to rest on Wednesday? why do I have to follow Christian, Jewish or any other remnants that happen to be unamend?
Can you explain me how the Sunday pushes your belief? I can see many Jews in Zurich taking the Sabbat instead... I am not religious and can happily take of Sundays without thinking about Jesus.

We call these remnants "culture". (For some reasons I don't understand seems it always be Canadians who did not learn that part...)

Religion is in Europe on a steep decline since the Aufklärung, but it was the dominant factor of our culture for 2000 years. Everything from music over paintings to literature is full of those remnants and it is not a bad thing at all.
The society is overall relatively tolerant here, no? If you prefer to not take a day off tomorrow and go to work, I am sure your boss would allow you to.
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  #82  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:11
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

having had the "privilege" of working on every possible shift that ever existed, I can tell you that working on sunday and resting on any other day isn't that fun. Mostly becuase none of your friends are available to hang around.
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  #83  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:18
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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This somehow makes it better?

Why are the beliefs of others always pushed? What if I like to rest on Wednesday? why do I have to follow Christian, Jewish or any other remnants that happen to be unamended?
Have you even considered the possibility that if it wasn't for these religious "considerations" you might be working a 7 day week and not be taking Wednesday off at all? Likewise most bank holidays are linked to religious holidays. Such a bitter pill to swallow, eh?

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  #84  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:27
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

As the OP is still waiting on an answer, I think an unwritten rule in all of Europe rather than just Switzerland, is it is wiser to keep your religious belieifs to yourself and avoid crossing the line between giving your opinion or sharing your views, with what may be percieved as preaching to the unenlightened. Religious beliefs and ascribing to one church or cult or whatever has caused wars, inquisitions and a lot of hatred down through the centuries in this part of the world, so people choose to be discreet.
They save preaching for opinions about beauty, health and the latest health scares or miraculous cures.
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  #85  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:32
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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Have you even considered the possibility that if it wasn't for these religious "considerations" you might be working a 7 day week and not be taking Wednesday off at all? Likewise most bank holidays are linked to religious holidays. Such a bitter pill to swallow, eh?

That's debatable, most christian holidays are just bastardisations of earlier ones appropriated to sell more christianity.

Maybe we used to have more than one day of rest, till some uppity sod declared that gold told hm you'll only get one.
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  #86  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:41
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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This somehow makes it better?
No. It was an observation.
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Why are the beliefs of others always pushed? What if I like to rest on Wednesday? why do I have to follow Christian, Jewish or any other remnants that happen to be unamended?
You also can't choose to work 10pm to 6am each day, if it's going to disturb others. Is that a religious belief being pushed onto your oppressed atheistic/spaghetti monster/mormon/jewish/islamic/hindu/... shoulders?

It's got absolutely nothing to do with beliefs being pushed. It used to, of course, when the church was a temporal power, and could put you in prison if you violated church law. It may have escaped your notice, but the church really doesn't have that kind of power anymore. Sunday as a legal day of rest is simple a tradition and custom of a society that just happened to have had a Christian history.

What's happening is that the democratic rights of others is impinging on your desires. As in other countries, it will slowly change here, and become deregulated. But only when there's a majority of voting citizens in favour of it. Or are you against democracy as well?

btw - the resting on the seventh day does seem to be a peculiarly Jewish thing. Back in Babylonian times, the Jews were considered lazy because they took every 7th day off.
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  #87  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:51
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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Can you explain me how the Sunday pushes your belief? I can see many Jews in Zurich taking the Sabbat instead... I am not religious and can happily take of Sundays without thinking about Jesus.

We call these remnants "culture". (For some reasons I don't understand seems it always be Canadians who did not learn that part...)

Religion is in Europe on a steep decline since the Aufklärung, but it was the dominant factor of our culture for 2000 years. Everything from music over paintings to literature is full of those remnants and it is not a bad thing at all.
The society is overall relatively tolerant here, no? If you prefer to not take a day off tomorrow and go to work, I am sure your boss would allow you to.
I should point out that I don't actually want wednesday off... I'd just like to be able to actually get something done on the weekends... but no, I wouldn't be able to work tomorrow.
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  #88  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:53
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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I should point out that I don't actually want wednesday off... I'd just like to be able to actually get something done on the weekends... but no, I wouldn't be able to work tomorrow.
So basically your beef is that other people don't work on these days

(minus some public sector, tourism and other industries of course)
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  #89  
Old 01.06.2011, 18:05
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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No. It was an observation.

You also can't choose to work 10pm to 6am each day, if it's going to disturb others. Is that a religious belief being pushed onto your oppressed atheistic/spaghetti monster/mormon/jewish/islamic/hindu/... shoulders?
No, that's called considerate living. Blocking off a whole day for everyone regardless of belief, is imposing.

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It's got absolutely nothing to do with beliefs being pushed. It used to, of course, when the church was a temporal power, and could put you in prison if you violated church law... Sunday as a legal day of rest is simple a tradition and custom of a society that just happened to have had a Christian history.
You've contradicted yourself. it's either a religion-based belief, or it isn't - can't be both.


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So basically your beef is that other people don't work on these days

(minus some public sector, tourism and other industries of course)
No no, I don't need to be "served" by any means. But, as a student, unskilled foreigner etc. perhaps you can't work a full week, but could work the weekend... in this case you're being denied the oppertunity to better your situation in the name of appeasing a "cultural tradition".

Anyway, it's a tired debate here and it'll change in the not-too-distant future regardless... it's just frustrating to actually sit a good decade in the past on so many things - this one's just the most "visible" at the moment.
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  #90  
Old 01.06.2011, 18:09
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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As the OP is still waiting on an answer, I think an unwritten rule in all of Europe rather than just Switzerland, is it is wiser to keep your religious belieifs to yourself and avoid crossing the line between giving your opinion or sharing your views, with what may be percieved as preaching to the unenlightened.
In my experience it usually is preaching.
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Old 01.06.2011, 18:11
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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No no, I don't need to be "served" by any means. But, as a student, unskilled foreigner etc. perhaps you can't work a full week, but could work the weekend... in this case you're being denied the oppertunity to better your situation in the name of appeasing a "cultural tradition".
.
Maybe it's because that's what most people want and maybe the forces of Democracy override the whinings of Capitalism rather than vice-versa?

BTW, an expansion of Sunday trading is not just opposed by the churches but also by left wing types such as unions who are not really controlled by religion at all.
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  #92  
Old 01.06.2011, 18:27
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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Maybe it's because that's what most people want and maybe the forces of Democracy override the whinings of Capitalism rather than vice-versa?
Perhaps, but it's honestly the mindless parroting of reasons that you get when questioning it that I have a bigger issue with. If it's religious, fine, go for it. State that it's the cantonal religion, the population wants religious base and that's why it's so. But they don't - they tell you it's for the good of the people, fair commerce for small firms etc. etc. If I can have a single real, supported basis for any of these, then fine. But I'm yet to see one. Democracy, I don't really have a problem with - this though, there's no democracy there, only propaganda.

I've actually had people tell me that it would be terrible for the Migros staff to have to work Sundays, because they don't have any other opportunities here due to a lack of education. Someone please explain how by removing the ability to support yourself through school, you're actually helping these people have a better life?

(I should say that I am actually looking at the very real possibility of having to return to school full time, and will likely have to deal with this exact issue myself, so it’s not a “top-down” viewpoint)

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BTW, an expansion of Sunday trading is not just opposed by the churches but also by left wing types such as unions who are not really controlled by religion at all.
I'm aware of the union involvement, but if you know why, please enlighten me...
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  #93  
Old 01.06.2011, 18:28
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

To go back to the original post, just for fun, I must say that my granddaughters would be in trouble with me if I caught them saying 'bla, bla, bla' to anyone who was speaking civilly to them, irrespective of what the person was talking about and irrespective of who the speaker was. How old, how young, what sex, what religion, what race - whatever.
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  #94  
Old 01.06.2011, 18:37
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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To go back to the original post, just for fun, I must say that my granddaughters would be in trouble with me if I caught them saying 'bla, bla, bla' to anyone who was speaking civilly to them, irrespective of what the person was talking about and irrespective of who the speaker was. How old, how young, what sex, what religion, what race - whatever.
It's true. But it'd make me uncomfortable if my kids/nephews/whatever had friends who waxed lyrical about God on a regular basis. It seems than in such a situation this sort of response might be applicable. If a Jehovas Witness came to my door looking to engage me in discourse I would smile, say thank you and close the door. In my head, however, I'd be saying "blah blah blah". From a 6 year old, it isn't the worst reaction I can imagine.
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Old 01.06.2011, 18:43
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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It's true. But it'd make me uncomfortable if my kids/nephews/whatever had friends who waxed lyrical about God on a regular basis. It seems than in such a situation this sort of response might be applicable. If a Jehovas Witness came to my door looking to engage me in discourse I would smile, say thank you and close the door. In my head, however, I'd be saying "blah blah blah". From a 6 year old, it isn't the worst reaction I can imagine.
bla bla bla...
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Old 01.06.2011, 18:44
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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bla bla bla...
*Smiles, says thank you, and closes the door*
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  #97  
Old 01.06.2011, 19:09
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

Just a little bit on older kids. If we shut them up so young, they won't feel like sharing later on.

Why do we project on them so much...Wanting to share a philosophy that is important at home? Why not? Kids at 6 will want to share anything about everything, such a nice thing. Open, willing, usually respectful. So, it's the rude "bla bla bla" that I don't like, and, the fact we project a concept of propaganda on a 6yr old and shame them into complete shyness. I do think, culturally, it is important to say to the child, this culture does not invite sharing religious believes in public and one might encounter negative attitudes due all sorts of reasons. Talking nicely about one's believes does not mean in any way trying to persuade, or "steal one's soul", though, it is risky just like any other personal stuff, but at 6, all is personal.

I come from the atheist place in Europe since religion was illegal, pretty much, I would have appreciated if my buddies wanted to share with me their religion and weren't instructed to hide it. Man, I would actually have appreciated if my own religious roots had been revealed to me back then.

But it rubs me the wrong way to haste and say, good, no religious preaching, get used to it, keep it quiet since that is the norm here. Why not let that child decide and trust her own radar to see if she finds good friends who are not afraid of sharing. 6 year olds are usually so eager to philosophy, it is wonderful. Is not a case of sharing because of some kid went through brainwashing. One family teaches some values and passes on some wisdoms, while others pass on something else. Allowing a 6yr old get away with a disrespectful "blablabla" does not really say anything about what steph's daughter wanted to say, rather about what her little friends level of respect and civility is.

I am not a religious bible thumper by any means. But think that the fact that girl wants to exchange ideas is fab. She should be told she might not have people open to her to share theirs and they might not like her views nor appreciate her trying to have an exchange. But, I would be very sensitive about this, since she might find somebody who will want to share thoughts about how this world happened to exist and what is behind things we see. If she decided to quote Plato, we would all aplaude and call her genius. But because she wants to discuss a controversial stuff, we frown.
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Old 01.06.2011, 19:23
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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But I'm yet to see one. Democracy, I don't really have a problem with - this though, there's no democracy there, only propaganda.
Aren't you missing the essence of democracy? Democracy is about the majority having things their way. It's not about whether they are philosophically right or wrong or even whether they are acting against their own best interests. Most modern countries think democracy is a good thing to have and in accepting that they are accepting the good with the bad and the right with the wrong.

The church and religion don't come into it. People may make up their minds on the basis of religious ideas, as indeed they may base their decisons on other philosophical ideas or on what their friends say or they may purely consider their own immediate best interest. The decison is theirs and you cannot take it from them. But to call that a stranglehold of religion or talk about separation of church and state is really taking a very narrow view IMHO.

Should there be a law saying people should not allow their religious convictions to influence the way they vote? Wouldn't that run against freedom of conscience, besides being impossible to implement?

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I'm aware of the union involvement, but if you know why, please enlighten me...
Maybe because people who work in shops may also enjoy being at home on Sundays and the quality time they spend with their families may be more valuable to them than the bottom line of their stockholders?

Last edited by amogles; 01.06.2011 at 19:36.
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Old 01.06.2011, 19:47
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

wowww...98 posts because some kid said bla bla bla when religion is mentioned...people will talk and argue about anything these days
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Old 05.06.2011, 11:55
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Re: 6 year old says "bla bla bla" when daughter talks about God

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Im not sure where to put this, is there a religious section here?

Im not really complaining in its full sense, but something my daughter told me yesterday kept me up last night.

My daughter is going to kindergarten and has a best friend. I say best friend because they both agree they like each other (after 3 months) very much and all they talk about is when my daughter is going to the friends house again and vice versa.

So the friend is Indian but raised here. She had lunch at our house one time and she is very nice and respectful. But yesterday my daughter told me that she was talking about God. Out of the blue she just makes statements like "all the things we see here, the nice things are made by god", very general stuff. The friend just went "blablablablabla". I know english as well as german speakers (the friend speaks both) say that.

Im sure this didnt happen just yesterday and she is still best friends with the girl. She was also bothered but i dont think she got hurt with it. Here´s what im worried about...Does this have to do with the friend´s being indian or is it her swiss upbringing? If the latter, should i warn my daughter to not talk about God?
Actually 'blablablablablablabla' is Hindi for 'I respect your religion, but I have my own and we have different beliefs that are no less valid in my eyes.'

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