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  #101  
Old 03.06.2011, 10:46
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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Yet if you sit one your grievances without venting every now and again your whole life ur just as likely to end up going postal.
Call me weird but you could just pick up the phone and try to sort it out...

Going postal takes so much energy for a zero result.
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  #102  
Old 03.06.2011, 10:50
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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Attack?? I was asking him why he was here seeing as he has had so many negative experiences.

Nowhere is ever as good as the "fairy tale you heard about" but it's how you deal with it that matters. Plenty of expats manage to cope with the fact their permit isn't waiting for them on the doorstep when they arrive or are able to arrange internet coverage without too much difficulty.

If the OP is finding problems with the basics at this stage how is he going to cope with all the other related stuff to moving to a new country?

The system is not perfect but neither is the system in Australia or the UK (the UK, come on - total joke!). In the 10 years I have been here, I have found a lot less difficulty arranging paperwork, permits and services; and I do this not just for myself but for the expats moving here to work for our company so I have regular experience with them.

Yes, I have problems now and again because someone has lost a form or someone has gone off on holiday and forgotten to complete some admin but, on the whole, I find it a lot less painful than trying to arrange services in the UK.

No no, not you specifically - I don't see any problem with asking why someone moved somewhere. The collective though, is zealous defence of a flag that will likely never belong to those standing to defend it. Make no mistake, it doesn't matter how long you're here, you will never really be considered swiss. You can be accepted, learn the dialect and have local friends - but you will never be Swiss in their eyes.

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If you chuck your toys out of the pram every time something goes wrong or someone is incompetent you are in for an absolutely miserable existence here, as you would be anywhere.
Of course, though after a while, the cumulative can be overwhelming. As was stated, this is the complaints corner.
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  #103  
Old 03.06.2011, 10:55
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

seems to me the OP just wanted to let off steam and a load of people seem to attack them for it, if the OP's points are bothering you so much why not just ignore the thread?
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  #104  
Old 03.06.2011, 10:56
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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No no, not you specifically - I don't see any problem with asking why someone moved somewhere. The collective though, is zealous defence of a flag that will likely never belong to those standing to defend it. Make no mistake, it doesn't matter how long you're here, you will never really be considered swiss. You can be accepted, learn the dialect and have local friends - but you will never be Swiss in their eyes.
Actually, that suits me fine - I'm not Swiss, I just live here. My roots will always be in the UK. For me to somehow "become Swiss" wouldn't sit right with me.

I think the same would be true of Swiss people moving abroad - they are Swiss, why do they want to assume the identity of another nation?
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  #105  
Old 03.06.2011, 11:00
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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seems to me the OP just wanted to let off steam and a load of people seem to attack them for it, if the OP's points are bothering you so much why not just ignore the thread?
Thank you.. somebody gets it
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  #106  
Old 03.06.2011, 11:21
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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Ehem, any EU national or person married to a Swiss passport holder (that they don't have a very good reason to deny) is, in fact entitled to a permit.

Granted, I don't know the status of the passports held in question, but if he does have an eu pass, then yes, he's entitled to receive a permit upon being offered work.

The application process it also different for those, and you can be here to apply. It's only non-eu that needs to do it before getting here.

Entitled implies there is no reason for which you can be denied or that it can be revoked.

I'm sure there are some reasons (no clue what they are) that even someone who is married to a Swiss citizen can be denied a permit, otherwise there would simply be someone opening mail and rubber stamping it as "accepted". As that's not the case...

Meanwhile, the OP is NOT married to a Swiss citizen, unless they got married between the time of opening the thread and now, as well as the mention of being deported to Australia being some indication of likelyhood that the OP is non-EU.

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that I agree with.. which is why the look on their faces was priceless whe I gave them my hands and said take me away and deport me back to Australia Im only living here because my fiancee is waiting for her Visa.. but Australia is a much better country than switzerland.. They had nothing to say


Getting back to the OP and his/her problems though, I do feel for you about the wait, truly. I was quite frustrated and furious with how long it took to get mine but I was back in the US, able to vent to my friends and family about it, including some "online friends" I know from playing MMOs.

So, rant, rant, rant, I don't disagree with the value of that.

BUT... entitled? That's going a bit far.
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  #107  
Old 03.06.2011, 11:28
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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Entitled implies there is no reason for which you can be denied or that it can be revoked.

I'm sure there are some reasons (no clue what they are) that even someone who is married to a Swiss citizen can be denied a permit, otherwise there would simply be someone opening mail and rubber stamping it as "accepted". As that's not the case...

Meanwhile, the OP is NOT married to a Swiss citizen, unless they got married between the time of opening the thread and now, as well as the mention of being deported to Australia being some indication of likelyhood that the OP is non-EU.





Getting back to the OP and his/her problems though, I do feel for you about the wait, truly. I was quite frustrated and furious with how long it took to get mine but I was back in the US, able to vent to my friends and family about it, including some "online friends" I know from playing MMOs.

So, rant, rant, rant, I don't disagree with the value of that.

BUT... entitled? That's going a bit far.
I should be entitled to the work permit as I have dual citizenship Australia and EU. I dont mind the waiting its no problem, it just the harrasment by the Zoll cops.

but aside from that what does the term "OP" mean
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  #108  
Old 03.06.2011, 11:31
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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I should be entitled to the work permit as I have dual citizenship Australia and EU.

but aside from that what does the term "OP" mean
Usually original poster or original post - depending on context.

Although, you are entitled to nothing - the Swiss authorities, AFAIK, could still refuse you a permit if they see fit...
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  #109  
Old 03.06.2011, 11:34
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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I should be entitled to the work permit as I have dual citizenship Australia and EU.

but aside from that what does the term "OP" mean
My mistake, I apologize.
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  #110  
Old 03.06.2011, 11:37
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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Although, you are entitled to nothing - the Swiss authorities, AFAIK, could still refuse you a permit if they see fit...
Not unless he's a national security threat or lacking gainful employment... the EU bilateral agreements are pretty clear.

And the only time a spouse can be refused, is in the case of sham marriages.
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  #111  
Old 03.06.2011, 11:41
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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Usually original poster or original post - depending on context.

Although, you are entitled to nothing - the Swiss authorities, AFAIK, could still refuse you a permit if they see fit...
I see.. well in any case.. I did the homework before I embarked on this and made sure that I fit all the eligibility requirements before I even considered living here. therfore I made sure that there was no reason for them not to give me the work permit.. and in any case Ive been in constant contact and there are no problems.. its just a slow process. and thats ok I dont mind waiting. I have a nice pad to live in central geneva for less than 900 chf a month, employment.. the wait changes really nothing, aside from a few bits and bobs, i.e. phone abonnements or having my woman on the lease.. it aint no big thing..

but getting my bags emptied on the platform drives me nuts
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  #112  
Old 03.06.2011, 13:27
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

Wow, some of the comments in this thread...

squidmonkey has every right to complain as much as he want, especially in a complaints thread. It doesn't bother me that some people are up in arms about his complaints, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on what is normal or right or whatever. What REALLY bothers me are the attitudes that I perceive, from people who are directly/indirectly saying "if you don't like how it is, why the hell are you here, go back where you came from".

So someone has a complaint about something they find to be less than ideal here in Switzerland, but if he doesn't like it here then he should go back to where he comes from? So maybe only Swiss people are allowed to complain about this system? It's comments like this that are exactly like people who can't take constructive criticism. Guess what? If no one complained about things, then nothing will change for the better. And a lot of good criticism comes from people with an outsider view, people who have lived in other countries and see the pros/cons there, and then compare them to the pros/cons here in Switzerland.

I don't care AT ALL if it's "not unusual" for people to wait 3 months for their internet to be connected. That is not a reason to be content with the service. For a place that is supposed to be a leading, modernized first world country, it is my opinion that it is absolutely unacceptable that someone should have to wait 3 months for an internet connection. Now this may be more of a problem with the internet provider than Switzerland itself, however that is not the point, the point is people SHOULD be able to complain about this, without receiving smirk comments about "if you don't like it go back to where you came from".

How about maybe saying instead, "Yea, in Canada, America and a lot of other countries that would be done more efficiently/differently, Switzerland could definitely IMPROVE itself in this area, and I hope they do eventually improve." Societies improve over time, often through criticism, but they sure as hell won't get any better if the people running it say "get the hell out if you don't like it."
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  #113  
Old 03.06.2011, 13:59
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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Wow, some of the comments in this thread...

squidmonkey has every right to complain as much as he want, especially in a complaints thread. It doesn't bother me that some people are up in arms about his complaints, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on what is normal or right or whatever. What REALLY bothers me are the attitudes that I perceive, from people who are directly/indirectly saying "if you don't like how it is, why the hell are you here, go back where you came from".

So someone has a complaint about something they find to be less than ideal here in Switzerland, but if he doesn't like it here then he should go back to where he comes from? So maybe only Swiss people are allowed to complain about this system? It's comments like this that are exactly like people who can't take constructive criticism. Guess what? If no one complained about things, then nothing will change for the better. And a lot of good criticism comes from people with an outsider view, people who have lived in other countries and see the pros/cons there, and then compare them to the pros/cons here in Switzerland.

I don't care AT ALL if it's "not unusual" for people to wait 3 months for their internet to be connected. That is not a reason to be content with the service. For a place that is supposed to be a leading, modernized first world country, it is my opinion that it is absolutely unacceptable that someone should have to wait 3 months for an internet connection. Now this may be more of a problem with the internet provider than Switzerland itself, however that is not the point, the point is people SHOULD be able to complain about this, without receiving smirk comments about "if you don't like it go back to where you came from".

How about maybe saying instead, "Yea, in Canada, America and a lot of other countries that would be done more efficiently/differently, Switzerland could definitely IMPROVE itself in this area, and I hope they do eventually improve." Societies improve over time, often through criticism, but they sure as hell won't get any better if the people running it say "get the hell out if you don't like it."
Yes, but it's not usually done through an impotent rant on a forum, is it?

Complaints are fine but channel them to the company / authority responsible. Bringing it to the forum suggests people need some assistance on how to go about it and is then open to debate and the opinions of other people.
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  #114  
Old 03.06.2011, 14:04
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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Switzerland could definitely IMPROVE itself in this area, and I hope they do eventually improve.
And what if Switzerland (or any other country for that matter) considers that the price for this improvement is far too high not only on financial level but also social, work condition, you name it... so that the price of improvement would outweight the improvement itself? Even if in your eyes, the price of that improvement is worth it, why not keeping your mind open for the case that a given society that is not your own cultural people actually does not make what would be in your eyes an improvement because it is not an improvement overall in their eyes?

I am not saying this applies necesserily to the permit or internet situation, because frankly, I lived in too many countries to even bother getting involved in other people's frustrations, but it may be an improvement to everybody's mind capacity to contemplate the possibility of such a multiple perspective on the concept of improvement.

I know that my messages are hard to read.
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  #115  
Old 04.06.2011, 19:32
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

@Faltrad: thank you !
- I'm glad I didn't leave that thread before reading your message.

Du bon sens ....enfin.
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  #116  
Old 05.06.2011, 09:21
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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When I moved here I ordered my internet package right away because I'd heard it could take a while to organize.

Seven weeks later, when I still hadn't heard anything from the company, I phoned them to check.

Turned out they had sent me a cable modem - the very next day - only to have it returned as "undeliverable" because my name wasn't on the mailbox yet. Oops.

Any chance you're in the same boat?
I got my wireless modem delivered by express less than 24 hours after I called Swisscom.

I'm leaning towards your 'no name on the mailbox' theory.
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  #117  
Old 05.06.2011, 10:40
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

I've had excellent service from Cablecom, both in getting set up, and dealing with the one service issue I had. This was just last week when my box seemed to stop working.

I called them, and asked to deal with an English speaker. Someone called back 10 minutes later. Spent half an hour trying to diagnose the issue, Eventually decided that the box was kaput. A new one arrived in the post 36 hours later (and works fine).

Going back to the OP, seems to me from an earlier post that there were problems with availability of the service (he talked about having to make modifications to the building). Still frustrating I know but if the building doesn't have the capability of receiving the service at the outset, there are always going to be delays.

Just as a general rule, it's always best to remain totally polite and reasonable even if you're biting your tongue at the other end of the line. Ranting on the phone will almost never get the result you want, and is likely to push you further back in the queue.
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  #118  
Old 05.06.2011, 11:26
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

Well, I have been living in geneva before and never had any problem with the internet... It's anyway the company which is to blame, not the city. For the permit, I got my permit c quite fast, seems like Geneva is in this respect more progressive than many other cantons... I suggest you j... For the visa issue, guess there is no real way out, but immigration offices are a pain in the a... Around the world, , ust call up the company and say you will switch provider if they don't speed up
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  #119  
Old 05.06.2011, 14:23
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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If you don't like it here, why don't you just **** off to where you came from?
You have missed the point completely!

If all the ex-pats went home at the first difficulty, Switzerland would still be skiing on thin planks of wood.

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Guess what? If no one complained about things, then nothing will change for the better. And a lot of good criticism comes from people with an outsider view, people who have lived in other countries and see the pros/cons there, and then compare them to the pros/cons here in Switzerland.
I totally agree!
.
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  #120  
Old 05.06.2011, 15:01
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Re: Switzerland.. Only the watches work properly

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At the end of the day I dont care who thinks where is what I just want internet at home
RELAX

I had the same experience outside CH, and the more upset and furious I was getting by the delay, the farthest I was from getting a solution to the problem.

Then, on a good day, I started all over again and a good intentioned chap carried away by a polite tone voice -vs. furious one- managed to find out that there was not internet cable installed in my (new) flat. The reason was that the guys from the telecom company didn´t came on the day they opened the floor on the road to install all the cablework . They urgently requested a new permit, came, put the cables and voila... in about a week vs 6 month waiting. Luckily, I had some sort of wireless connection from a generous neighbourg.

I wish you luck to get it asap, but also, just enjoy your time without internet, it will never be the same afterwards
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