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i-b-deborah 22.06.2011 12:39

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
So, after constant racism over the centuries, we can now shut them up when they've been complaining for a few years by saying they are over playing their racism card. I think they can bang on about it for a couple of decades more tbh.
Quote:

If the card gets overplayed it loses its impact and things will never move forward. Racism is a terrible thing in society but people looking for it where it doesn't exist are just diluting its severity unnecessarily.

Sky 22.06.2011 19:29

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Wolli, when something unfortunate happens to somebody, it's common courtesy in English, to say "I'm sorry....etc"
I've noticed that it's not done in German or French.

Wollishofener 22.06.2011 23:08

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky (Post 1237478)
Wolli, when something unfortunate happens to somebody, it's common courtesy in English, to say "I'm sorry....etc"
I've noticed that it's not done in German or French.

In CH-German it is "äxgüsi" or "...tschulidgung" , in French it is "Pardon", with the "pardon" (French pronouncing) also is used by CH-Germans. I hear these expressions all the time all over the country.

But you might specify what you mean by "something unfortunate happens to somebody"

Röschti 23.06.2011 07:28

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 1237737)
In CH-German it is "äxgüsi" or "...tschulidgung" , in French it is "Pardon", with the "pardon" (French pronouncing) also is used by CH-Germans. I hear these expressions all the time all over the country.

But you might specify what you mean by "something unfortunate happens to somebody"


What I think Sky means is that in English-speaking cultures when someone mentions that something negative occurred to them, people show sympathy (with varying degrees of sincerity, depending on circumstances and the individuals involved) by saying "I'm sorry (this happened to you)".

It's a different use than Sorry/äxgüsi/pardon/scusi/tschulidgung (which are used typically when you might have done - or are about to do - something which you feel may trouble/may have troubled the person you're talking to)

mirfield 23.06.2011 09:03

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 1237737)
In CH-German it is "äxgüsi" or "...tschulidgung" , in French it is "Pardon", with the "pardon" (French pronouncing) also is used by CH-Germans. I hear these expressions all the time all over the country."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Röschti (Post 1237821)
What I think Sky means is that in English-speaking cultures when someone mentions that something negative occurred to them, people show sympathy (with varying degrees of sincerity, depending on circumstances and the individuals involved) by saying "I'm sorry (this happened to you)".

Quote:

Originally Posted by COED
Sorry
adj
1. Feeling distress, especially through sympathy with someone else's misfortune.

English has "Sorry", German has "Schadenfreude". ;)


I guess "Sorry" is more synonymous with "Es tut mir leid" than "Entschulidgung".

Guest 23.06.2011 09:35

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Röschti (Post 1237821)
What I think Sky means is that in English-speaking cultures when someone mentions that something negative occurred to them, people show sympathy (with varying degrees of sincerity, depending on circumstances and the individuals involved) by saying "I'm sorry (this happened to you)".

It's a different use than Sorry/äxgüsi/pardon/scusi/tschulidgung (which are used typically when you might have done - or are about to do - something which you feel may trouble/may have troubled the person you're talking to)

I have heard "Es tut mir soooo Leid..." when someone has been expressing sympathy.

"Entschuldigung" is more for excusing yourself when you are at fault (or similar).

What I would like to know is which word do you use immediately after a burp or other unfortunate bodily noise?

Swissmountainair 23.06.2011 09:35

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Empathy is more freely expressed in some cultures than others. Whether it is felt equally or not is another matter. I like to think at a base level every human is born with a certain innate empathy towards fellow beings and I suspect this is true - but it certainly helps when such feelings are encouraged by society.

Carlos R 23.06.2011 09:36

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky (Post 1237478)
Wolli, when something unfortunate happens to somebody, it's common courtesy in English, to say "I'm sorry....etc"

Really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 1237737)
...in French it is "Pardon", with the "pardon" (French pronouncing) also is used by CH-Germans.

= get out of my way... :cool: (in Basel, at any rate)

Quote:

What I would like to know is which word do you use immediately after a burp or other unfortunate bodily noise?
"Sorry"?

It's what the locals use around here anyway...

Röschti 23.06.2011 09:39

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mirfield (Post 1237873)
English has "Sorry", German has "Schadenfreude". ;)


Including a subset of individuals who say "sorry" when in fact what they feel is Schadenfreude. :msntongue:

Guest 23.06.2011 09:40

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlos R (Post 1237919)
"Sorry"?

It's what the locals use around here anyway...

OK, it's better than "Whoaaa, GET THAT!" :D

mirfield 23.06.2011 09:43

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

What I would like to know is which word do you use immediately after a burp or other unfortunate bodily noise?
Riechen Sie das!

Röschti 23.06.2011 10:07

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swissmountainair (Post 1237917)
Empathy is more freely expressed in some cultures than others. Whether it is felt equally or not is another matter. I like to think at a base level every human is born with a certain innate empathy towards fellow beings and I suspect this is true - but it certainly helps when such feelings are encouraged by society.

This post has actually just reminded me about the difference between sympathy and empathy. Definitions may vary, but I've recently read a book which explained them in the following terms (I'm rephrasing and simplifying, I don't remember the actual quote):

Sympathy: person A has a problem or is in pain. Person B can relate and they share the pain - they essentially feel bad together.

Empathy: person A has a problem or is in pain. Person B can relate/understands A's problem/pain and wants to do something to alleviate it

Interesting enough I have found sources that define these terms the other way round, but I like this definition best because it's closer to how I perceive them.
(For the sake of curiosity the book in question is The Survivor Personality, by Al Siebert).

Back to topic now... :msntongue:

mirfield 23.06.2011 11:34

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Röschti (Post 1237958)
Sympathy: person A has a problem or is in pain. Person B can relate and they share the pain - they essentially feel bad together.

Empathy: person A has a problem or is in pain. Person B can relate/understands A's problem/pain and wants to do something to alleviate it

Interesting enough I have found sources that define these terms the other way round

See, I'd go more towards the opposite too.

Sympathy is pity or sorrow. You don't necessarily have to understand or share what they're going through. I would have sympathy for a woman who miscarried her child, but I could never fully share what they are feeling.

Empathy is much more understanding and sharing the feelings of another, and isn't necessarily negative. I can empathise with a newcomer to Switzerland trying to find his feet (and brown sugar). I can empathise with somebody that wants to retire to North Yorkshire.

Röschti 23.06.2011 11:49

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mirfield (Post 1238133)
See, I'd go more towards the opposite too.

Sympathy is pity or sorrow. You don't necessarily have to understand or share what they're going through. I would have sympathy for a woman who miscarried her child, but I could never fully share what they are feeling.

Empathy is much more understanding and sharing the feelings of another, and isn't necessarily negative. I can empathise with a newcomer to Switzerland trying to find his feet (and brown sugar). I can empathise with somebody that wants to retire to North Yorkshire.


I'm confused. My impression is that the definition you give corresponds to the one I quoted... (I think you phrased it better, though :msntongue:) At any rate I think you pinpointed an important distinction between the two terms (and corresponding feelings), with which I strongly agree.

Sky 23.06.2011 12:27

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Röschti (Post 1237821)
What I think Sky means is that in English-speaking cultures when someone mentions that something negative occurred to them, people show sympathy (with varying degrees of sincerity, depending on circumstances and the individuals involved) by saying "I'm sorry (this happened to you)".

It's a different use than Sorry/äxgüsi/pardon/scusi/tschulidgung (which are used typically when you might have done - or are about to do - something which you feel may trouble/may have troubled the person you're talking to)

Yup.... exactly what I meant.
Thank you :)

PaddyG 23.06.2011 12:47

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

OK, it's better than "Whoaaa, GET THAT!" :D
Or, "Oh bollocks, I think I just followed through" :msnsick:

mimi1981 23.06.2011 13:01

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mirfield (Post 1238133)
See, I'd go more towards the opposite too.

Sympathy is pity or sorrow. You don't necessarily have to understand or share what they're going through. I would have sympathy for a woman who miscarried her child, but I could never fully share what they are feeling.

Empathy is much more understanding and sharing the feelings of another, and isn't necessarily negative. I can empathise with a newcomer to Switzerland trying to find his feet (and brown sugar). I can empathise with somebody that wants to retire to North Yorkshire.


Can you educated bloody lot take your English language conversations elsewhere?? I want to hear more rants about bad tram experiences/whinges/gripes etc. I like hearing of other's misery.....

Guest 23.06.2011 13:45

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mimi1981 (Post 1238269)
Can you educated bloody lot take your English language conversations elsewhere?? I want to hear more rants about bad tram experiences/whinges/gripes etc. I like hearing of other's misery.....

OK, just for you then... (although it is a tiny bit funny).

My husband and I were sat on the tram a while back when a blind guy we regularly see in the area gets on with his white cane. My husband noticed that the bottom section of the cane was over extended and sticking out at a bit of an angle.

Being the helpful type, he asked the guy if he asked him if he wanted him to straighten it. "Thank you, yes!" came the reply, followed by lots of gratitude and how kind people are.

My husband wrestled with the cane for a few seconds when suddenly - SNAP, the cane broke about two-thirds of the way down.

Awkward silence then the blind guy, sensing all was not right, had a quick feel of the cane. When encountering the splintered stump, said "It's okay, I was on my way to my specialist anyway."

Not sure who was more miserable - guy with the broken cane or my husband for ruining the poor guy's day.

mirfield 23.06.2011 15:03

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

My husband wrestled with the cane for a few seconds when suddenly - SNAP, the cane broke about two-thirds of the way down.
Oops.

Though when I re-tell the story, your husband will have accidentally killed the man's guide dog while trying to straighten its wonky neck.

PaddyG 23.06.2011 15:29

Re: rude tram experience in basel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mirfield (Post 1238430)
Oops.

Though when I re-tell the story, your husband will have accidentally killed the man's guide dog while trying to straighten its wonky neck.

Unfortunately, the man hadn't noticed the dog had already been dead for quite some time and couldn't understand why it was dawdling so.


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