Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 22.06.2011, 11:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

As a slightly different take on it (and basing it on my own son's attitude to clothes / hot weather / playgrounds), the scenario could have been one kid shedding his clothes and the other kids following suit (copy-cat stylie) with the teacher going nuts collecting discarded socks and knickers trying to get them to dress themselves.

The OP didn't reckon with that, though...

It could have been my son, come to think of it - more than once he's led a stripping session with his fellow pals. Wahay!!
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #102  
Old 22.06.2011, 11:31
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,729
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,942 Times in 3,654 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
It could have been my son, come to think of it - more than once he's led a stripping session with his fellow pals.
That could be a useful talent when he gets older.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #103  
Old 22.06.2011, 11:38
maximum's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richterswil, ZH
Posts: 184
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 99 Times in 52 Posts
maximum has earned the respect of manymaximum has earned the respect of manymaximum has earned the respect of many
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post

On a general note, I would advise to be very careful with the use of the word "negligent". First because it is a legal term so it needs a court to use it correctly. Secondly because I can assure you that it is not always possible to get truely safe conditions approved by the school and still have to carry on the excursion. When an accident happen, the teacher depends totally on the school willingness to help him/her, otherwise, the teacher ends up taking the whole blame for a situation he had no controle/authority about in the first place as he/she is not the decision maker about the conditions of the excursions. It is far safer for teachers to give up the concept of trust all together than putting their professional future into the hands of people who have all interest to make him/her the sole responsible person, thus "negligent".

I have seen too much in schools behind the scene... teachers stand no chance. Sorry for that.
Well, for the lawyers, I mean grossly negligent, and for the non-lawyers, in this I mean that a teacher just forgets a child, or looses a child which was not necessary. Or does not do anything when a child performs a very dangerous act which eventually leads to an accident. (with other words, does not perform her/his duties as a teacher).
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 22.06.2011, 11:41
jrspet's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Quaint Wädenswil, Zürich, CH
Posts: 8,131
Groaned at 27 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 7,036 Times in 3,912 Posts
jrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Allowing kids to be in their birthday suits is not a breach of the duty of care by the teachers.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank jrspet for this useful post:
  #105  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:00
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

I am 200% sure that the kids were not 'forced' to take their kit off, really. Kids here are used to being free and natural, and will happily follow (birthday) suit. If a 3 to 4 year old child is very self-conscious and un-happy about their natural state, I'd be a lot more worried and wonder 'why?'.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #106  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:24
Louis Wu's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: varied, now Nouvelle Normandie
Posts: 1,024
Groaned at 24 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 907 Times in 455 Posts
Louis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

I find it very refreshing that children are allowed to run around naked if they choose to do so. I find it ridiculous that people get their noses put out of joint by the sight of it. I find the paranoia concerning possible paedo's overblown and I find the rules and regulations that are supposed to minimise this so-called risk in some countries are equally ridiculous.
I was recently watching my daughter with her class at the final swimming session of the school year together with a lot of other parents. Naturally, many parents were taking photos of their kids swimming - rightly so as they are proud of their kids and their achievements. I was chatting with one parent about how great it is that you are actually allowed to take photos at a swimming pool without breaking any rules. I think that this says something about society - what exactly I don't know but I personally far prefer a libertarian society to a puritanical one. I mean just think, they'll be wanting to close the cinemas next just in case people start thinking it's OK to laugh in public.
__________________
Mens sana in campari soda
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Louis Wu for this useful post:
  #107  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:29
jrspet's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Quaint Wädenswil, Zürich, CH
Posts: 8,131
Groaned at 27 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 7,036 Times in 3,912 Posts
jrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Yet, there are some places where where taking a picture of your 4 year old son ( clothed and in public ) as well as public display of affection for him is expressly prohibited - no, not in Asia nor in Europe but in parts of Australia. For me, CH is refreshingly tolerant and open, and I hope this will continue.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank jrspet for this useful post:
  #108  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
Well, for the lawyers, I mean grossly negligent, and for the non-lawyers, in this I mean that a teacher just forgets a child, or looses a child which was not necessary. Or does not do anything when a child performs a very dangerous act which eventually leads to an accident. (with other words, does not perform her/his duties as a teacher).
We all agree on that, common sense is enough to follow your thoughts, I am on your side there.
When the situation accures however, the said parent is understandibly not in a calm cold headed mode. Common sense is not the bridge that will make communication possible with a worried and shocked parent when something happens. It's on the emotional level. Mixing up legal issues with emotional state is not uncommon anymore. Hence the need of teachers to act accordingly. A history teacher I know does not organize the trip to Belfort anymore because two parents made his life hell two years ago because they were not trusting the French to secure the fortress for visitors (high cliff). School ruled on that: we don't take chances. We submitted a list of all school trips with the places we take chances under that definition. Two years later, still no answer. What should teachers do? Even following the rules is impossible when organizing a field trip.

I understand safety issues. I even understand and would accept it if a school told me to teach only in my classroom and never ever open a window just in case hitchcock birds fly in and attack students. But schools following the said majority of parents and its own fear as an institution do not come up with a coherent set of rules because absolute safety is just not possible. Or should we cancell science laboratory as well?

And about nackedness: I would worry far more about what outfits parents allow young teenagers to go to school with than kindergarden kiddies on the playground.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
  #109  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:30
Helm's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zürich<->St.Gallen
Posts: 2,209
Groaned at 13 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 4,136 Times in 1,371 Posts
Helm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
I am 200% sure that the kids were not 'forced' to take their kit off, really. Kids here are used to being free and natural, and will happily follow (birthday) suit. If a 3 to 4 year old child is very self-conscious and un-happy about their natural state, I'd be a lot more worried and wonder 'why?'.
Thank you for explaining what a birthday suit is... I was not understanding the answer of jrspet because I was thinking a "birthday suit" is something like a princess pink dress or an over-fancy smoking for children...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Helm for this useful post:
  #110  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:33
jrspet's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Quaint Wädenswil, Zürich, CH
Posts: 8,131
Groaned at 27 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 7,036 Times in 3,912 Posts
jrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Sorry about that Helm - Birthday Suit = naked ie the state that one was born in.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:54
Nickers's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,693
Groaned at 41 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 4,899 Times in 1,697 Posts
Nickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
Yet, there are some places where where taking a picture of your 4 year old son ( clothed and in public ) as well as public display of affection for him is expressly prohibited - no, not in Asia nor in Europe but in parts of Australia. For me, CH is refreshingly tolerant and open, and I hope this will continue.
Unfortunately this happens here though. My sister in law was told not to take pics of my niece and nephew at Seebach Badi a few years back. Also I take my little one to baby swimming every week, sometimes another parent or grandparent comes and takes photos, the lady taking the class has to ask us each time if we are Ok with them taking photos!
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:24
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
And then we could have knabeschiessen and sexyleuten!

Tom
A) both only inside the political City of Zurich
B) both only HALF a day

I would see the F&R&E thing to be a FULL day between Monday and Friday for ALL of the Canton of Zürich. And other Cantons like Schaffhausen, Thurgau, St. Gallen, Schwyz and Zug free to join
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:27
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
Really? I find that very strange as I see fully or half naked young kids all over the place. Must be some new (bad) policies of that Badi.
All Badis in the City of Zürich are under the supervision and "guidance" of the Sportamt and so of the government of the City of Zürich. A few, like Tiefenbrunnen, have specified nude zones, but generally swimming or walking around nude is NOT allowed.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 22.06.2011, 14:13
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
It could have been my son, come to think of it - more than once he's led a stripping session with his fellow pals.
Then he is a clever boy, I have seen kids going bonkers for water and actually running into fountains, teachers having no time to actually tell them no, it's not a good idea to jump in with clothes on, hahahaha...

Quote:
View Post
Allowing kids to be in their birthday suits is not a breach of the duty of care by the teachers.
Being a teacher myself and having a kiddo in a creche, I politely dare to disagree. Actually. Some institutions might not have that specified in their directives, but to expose kids in their birthday suit in a public, busy place, might actually be a breach. And I see the point. Beach, friend's back yard, a place where just kids and teachers run around, secluded playground, etc. not a big deal. A public place with certain traffic, I as a parent wouldn't have liked it. And not for prudish reasons, but, since it is uncomfortable for my kiddo, don't want her to get used to lack of privacy, and, I can see her getting dirt all in the wrong places. Blech. She is very confident, in terms of nakedness and her seld body image. But I just think it is a wrong thing to do in public, where kids are exposed to whoever goes by. I see zero reasons. It does not mean I assume the public here or elsewhere would be programmed to endanger my child.

Quote:
View Post
Absolutely right, but many parents consider that as a legal document to be sent to lawyers as soon as an accident happens.
I agree with your that it is a touchy thing. But what if parents are kept purposely not knowing so they cannot intefere, since the school has bad experiences. So the school simply does not tell the folks. It does not feed trust, either. I think, if I remember well, what worked was to give that slip that says your kid will go there and there, give him 5crowns for icecream (not more) and pick up 4pm. It was not really asking for permission. I think kids should get out of school, sure. Even for classes, I believe field trips teach more than theory in the class, if only the fact that I trust my kids to behave so I can take them out. I can also see if parents understand the value, have things explained and actually realize teaching a class in the botanical garden will count towards the final test, they might be more prone to participate, agree and support (as TAs, for example). I love when parents are given their chance to participate in schooling of their kids. Usually they do a fab job. I also love what I did in the US, giving kids "show and tell" time, bringing their parents in class to tell and "teach" about their career, etc. We nag about Yank schooling, the court cases, the profs stripped of their normal human rights, common sense, etc. But there are so many positive things, too. The creativity, out of the classroom times, career days, sports, interdisciplinary subjects, academic olympic games, etc. I still use a lot of this in my classes, it's so fun.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 22.06.2011, 14:55
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 15
Groaned at 12 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Singorchid has no particular reputation at present
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
Come on Singorchid, you are over reacting - I am guessing by your nickname that you're from Singers right? What exactly are you taking issue with? The fact that kids are naked in public and that an opportunistic paedophile will happen to pass by, take pictures of those kids for his pervy pleasure? Or the modesty part where kids are running around with their bits hanging out?

This is German territory where sun bathing naked and letting your weiners hang out is ok.

Or a better example: back home, go to Vivocity on weekends and you'll see kids playing around the fountain naked with their parents sitting around nonchantly.

You're probably one of those who will throw a fit if the teacher takes the kids out for a boat trip without letting you sign a permission slip.

Best to get used to how things work here - you are no longer in the land of nannying, where kids WALK TO SCHOOL themselves (cue shock horror!!), no domestic helpers, the gah-men doesnt do everything for you, and *gasp* people are capable of independence and a certain amount of autonomy.

Hi, I am a German...so what?
Btw, I like you signature post....and this is back to you! Cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 22.06.2011, 15:24
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
Hi, I am a German...so what?
Btw, I like you signature post....and this is back to you! Cheers!
Sure or not?
Hello from Singapore
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank summerrain for this useful post:
  #117  
Old 22.06.2011, 15:54
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 15
Groaned at 12 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Singorchid has no particular reputation at present
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Very interesting to read everyone's replies.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to get anyone 'heated up' with my mere comment. This is my opinion, and this is how i see... I was just concern about any passer by who might take a picture.... (So, tell me what's wrong with me if I care about those kids???) As you know, there are many tourists at the park, and who knows, what they would do with their cameras... that's why i was shocked and disgusted, not because of the kids, but because of those paedophiles who do exist in the world! And what i saw was the teachers were just sitting on the grass, relaxing and not looking up for 'suspicious character'. I guess Switzerland is just so safe, like what most said, that no such thing will happen. So since you said it, ok..period.
I, like everyone,was brought up in a liberal country, had lived in the west as well as the east since young. I knew of both cultures, and i knew of how each country differs. In the kampong of some Asia countries it is common to see the kids swim naked enjoying by the river or at the waterfall. No shames, no guilt, just fun!
Well, i let my girls and boys playing naked in the pool, but it is under my supervision. Whatever the school does, there must be a good link and communication between the teachers and parents. I dont' see anything wrong. With the proper communication, any mishaps can be prevented, thus the trust comes in.
For those who don't mind this, and for those who mind, let it be what you prefer. Let's not fuss over my comments. Period.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Singorchid for this useful post:
  #118  
Old 22.06.2011, 15:58
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 15
Groaned at 12 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Singorchid has no particular reputation at present
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
Sure or not?
Hello from Singapore

Haha.. how much do you know the people there in Singapore? It is a multiculture , multi racial country. Yes, I have spent most time in Spore, and that makes me more Asian.... I am proud!
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 22.06.2011, 16:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
Yes, I have spent most time in Spore
Enough to forget your native tongue, evidently:

Quote:
Native Language(s)
English

Foreign Languages
French
German, you say?
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #120  
Old 22.06.2011, 16:03
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 15
Groaned at 12 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Singorchid has no particular reputation at present
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Too naive to say that Germans don't know French!

Anyway...long story to explain why, ....and not important.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are English teachers smarter than Maths teachers? Deep Purple General off-topic 48 21.06.2011 14:50
I Brought My Heart From SF Mangosteen Introductions 3 07.12.2010 16:50
Any teachers with Muslim kids out there? Txell Swiss politics/news 5 14.05.2010 18:53
I brought my cat to Switzerland... now what? Wordsmith Pet corner 6 04.03.2010 18:29
Has anyone ever brought anything from pixmania.com? Chaletchef Daily life 8 25.11.2009 17:26


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0