Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #161  
Old 23.06.2011, 00:55
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
curiously, what would have happened if a parent of one of those kids found out, complained afterwards and wasn't swiss?
Had any of the parents, Swiss or NOT Swiss, have complained afterwards, the counter-question would immediately have been "but were you not informed" . If you, for example as a teacher, send a non-registered A-letter two days before an event, and have a copy, it serves as proof that you informed the parents in question. This already was so when letters were done with the original on top and several copy-sheets with a carbon paper on top of each (into the 1970ies).

And, as the parent in question was in such a case NOT in a position the evidence that his/her feelings/interests/belonging got really and directly damaged, there would be no legal claim. To claim that your feelings got damaged by the idea that you child was ..... etc, is no basis for ANY legal procedure.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #162  
Old 23.06.2011, 01:09
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: basel
Posts: 2,358
Groaned at 24 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,426 Times in 1,164 Posts
biff has a reputation beyond reputebiff has a reputation beyond reputebiff has a reputation beyond reputebiff has a reputation beyond reputebiff has a reputation beyond reputebiff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
When my son was born he didn't have a stitch on! And I had to carry him all the way through the delivery room totally naked.
Hang on a mo' Nick, I am having trouble working out how many people were naked here. Generally,I think the Dad's are supposed to keep their clothes on in the delivery suite.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank biff for this useful post:
  #163  
Old 23.06.2011, 07:48
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
Had any of the parents, Swiss or NOT Swiss, have complained afterwards, the counter-question would immediately have been "but were you not informed" . If you, for example as a teacher, send a non-registered A-letter two days before an event, and have a copy, it serves as proof that you informed the parents in question.
What would it say in the letter? That your kindy child will be taken to a public place and let run around naked?

This is the thing I am having trouble with.

I do get the nostalgia of childhood of some of us, heck, we spend time here having our child with no clothes on, but it was always quite descrete, it wouldn't surprise me at all in a pool, etc. having families and small kids around, or seeing neighbors in their yeard, since that's how I grew up, too.

What's bothering is the school time, and public place. Instrumentalism. Using kids to keep certain archaic status quo when culture has certainly changed and is no longer what it used to be. It's the same as in some scenario pushing wee kids walk to school in unsafe and inappropriate areas. Things really are changing, some people notice late.

I had a talk about this with a local friend yesterday and I was told it certainly does not hapen in our area and the teachers would have been in trouble should the parents found out. Must be the German nudist thing, to allow teachers have kids take their clothes off in public places.

I welcome kids in pool sites, beaches, back yards, anywhere mildly secluded, to have the comfort of not having to sit in soggy wet suits, etc. But in public parks and in class setting?

I spent childhood on Eastern German beach, sure we were naked, but honestly, with all the old geezers with their shlongs out playing voleyball and staring at us, it was a bizarre experience. Exhibs. I don't really feel like walking in the Alps running into one of them, nor seeing little kids so exposed to public in times they should be secure and protected.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Last edited by MusicChick; 23.06.2011 at 19:24.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #164  
Old 23.06.2011, 09:11
nickatbasel's Avatar
Mod, Chips and Mushy Peas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 5,313
Groaned at 160 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 8,353 Times in 3,094 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Heck, I knew they were looking at me strangely.

A bit of an "eats shoots and leaves" moment.

Cheers,
Nick

Quote:
View Post
Hang on a mo' Nick, I am having trouble working out how many people were naked here. Generally,I think the Dad's are supposed to keep their clothes on in the delivery suite.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 23.06.2011, 19:18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 389
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 758 Times in 216 Posts
Moorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Nothing wrong with kids running around naked under their parents supervision and with their parents say so.

But - if I found out that my child had run around naked out in a public place on a school trip without my knowledge or consent I would be really really furious. That is just not on.

Different issue now:

For those people who still live with the blinkers on and think nothing ever happens in Switzerland it does. When my son was at Kindergarten another Kindergarten had a morning excursion to Kannenfeldpark in Basel. A 5 year old girl went to the public toilet and was raped in there - this was reported in the papers. ShXt happens in Switzerland too.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Moorsholm for this useful post:
  #166  
Old 23.06.2011, 19:22
Lou's Avatar
Lou Lou is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,778
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,227 Times in 1,474 Posts
Lou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

We know stuff happens here, Switzerland is generally safe but bad people are everywhere. It is all about balance and keeping the parental paranoia under control so kids can still have a childhood.

Quote:
View Post
For those people who still live with the blinkers on and think nothing ever happens in Switzerland it does. When my son was at Kindergarten another Kindergarten had a morning excursion to Kannenfeldpark in Basel. A 5 year old girl went to the public toilet and was raped in there - this was reported in the papers. ShXt happens in Switzerland too.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Lou for this useful post:
  #167  
Old 23.06.2011, 19:35
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

I think this is where people differ, some consider not wanting their kids naked in public places under other adults supervision common sense, others might see it as parental paranoia.

Some think kids can have fantastic childhood without necesarrily running naked in public parks, others will pick on posters who say it is a no-no.

Knowing stuff happens and adjusting our perception on safety here is not paranoia, but reasonably intelligent thing to do. SOme people take longer than others. There is no need to go into extremes as others posted, why keep kids at home or make a teacher depend on a signed slip. But simply instruct teachers from letting a bunch of kindy kids expose themselves in areas that one would not expect to see naked people. I would not expect to see a naked kindergartener in a park, honestly. Pool, back yard, some kind of resort, etc. yes.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #168  
Old 23.06.2011, 19:41
Lou's Avatar
Lou Lou is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,778
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,227 Times in 1,474 Posts
Lou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

There is a huge difference between adjusting perception & paranoia. Like Nicky said earlier I would hate for Switzerland to turn into the nanny state back home in the UK where kids can no longer be kids and parents are too scared to let their children out of their site for no good reason at all.

Quote:
View Post
Knowing stuff happens and adjusting our perception on safety here is not paranoia, but reasonably intelligent thing to do.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Lou for this useful post:
  #169  
Old 23.06.2011, 20:07
Nev
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
We know stuff happens here, Switzerland is generally safe but bad people are everywhere. It is all about balance and keeping the parental paranoia under control so kids can still have a childhood.
Couldn't agree more. I don't think anybody is denying that there are risks out there that could potentially threaten our childrens' safety. Keeping on topic, it seems to me the difference of opinion is whether having two or three teachers supervising the children was enough to manage this particular situation so that the children under their care did not fall prey to those risks. All this discussion proves is that some parents feel the need to go further than others. Is anybody here surprised?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #170  
Old 23.06.2011, 21:34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 389
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 758 Times in 216 Posts
Moorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

The topic is actually about kids aged 4 - 6 out in public with a teacher naked.

If some parents are happy with their child being out in a park naked without them with (the parents) knowing about it - then fine, that is their decision based on their experience and perception and they shouldn't be judged for it.

The point is, it is not paranoid in the slightest to wish to be informed and then to deny permission for your 4 year old to be butt naked in a public place when you are not there. That's not paranoid - it's a very reasonable parental right and parents who express that wish should also not be judged for it.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with "letting kids be kids" or "restricting kids freedom" It is a judgement parents make to do with how to raise their kids, along with other judgements like the amount of time they watch TV or are allowed to game (when they're older)

I don't understand why people have to paint such extremes - either you support a "restrictive and a nanny state like the UK" or are irresponsible as "there is a pedeophile lurking behind every bush"

Things happen here - we need to be aware of that but at the same time, it's great that kids do have more freedom than in the UK for example, and that too should be celebrated but not in a naive way.

In other words - a balance. If a parent is happy that their child is running naked around a park that's the parents decision and so be it. But parents do need to be informed about these things and if they choose to not to allow their kids be naked in parks, then don't judge them for that decision.

ps) The sun protection issue would also bother me. Melenoma is a huge problem here in Switzerland - one of my good friends lost her husband aged 41 to this a few months ago - it does bring it home when you see someone you know die from this.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Moorsholm for this useful post:
  #171  
Old 23.06.2011, 21:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
The topic is actually about kids aged 4 - 6 out in public with a teacher naked.
I'm not convinced it is, to be honest.

I find it very difficult to believe that the children in question were kindergartners, and if they were, that they were with their teachers.

Something about the OP's tale simply doesn't sit right.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #172  
Old 23.06.2011, 21:49
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,417
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 10,952 Times in 3,253 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
I'm not convinced it is, to be honest.

I find it very difficult to believe that the children in question were kindergartners, and if they were, that they were with their teachers.

Something about the OP's tale simply doesn't sit right.
...not least because I can't think when I've ever seen a class of kindergartners out and about without their precious Bändäli hung round their little necks. If the OP had said "stark naked except for Bändäli" I'd have been prepared to believe her.


edit to clarify: not that I'm accusing the OP of making this up. I just wonder whether it really was what she assumed she was seeing. Playdate? Creche? Hard to say, we haven't got a lot of details.

__________________
Need help? Contact a mod.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #173  
Old 23.06.2011, 23:42
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 15
Groaned at 12 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Singorchid has no particular reputation at present
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Why would I want to make this story up? I am a mother too, and I am also concern about my kids, and if such things happen. The kids were not anymore young toddlers. And it didn't seem like any moms bringing their kids for playdates. I don't need to justify any further. All I would say, the teachers have the right to stop the kids being naked in public area, during school settings. And as i mentioned earlier, whether parents let their kids run naked, it is up to them. And if the parents grant the kindergarten permission to do so, that's also their choice. And of course, when i saw it, I was shocked, and surely I wouldn't know if the permission was granted. That's why i asked 'Does the society in Switzerland allow this to happen?'
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 24.06.2011, 00:02
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,417
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 10,952 Times in 3,253 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Maybe you could take another look at my post above. I didn't say you were making it up.

What I am saying is that you may have jumped to the wrong conclusion. As far as I've read, nobody else has reported that yes, this is normal, kids at their local school do it. In fact, several people - teachers among them - have said it wouldn't happen at their schools. Everybody else seems to be just assuming for the sake of argument that it does happen, and arguing whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.

I'm glad you're back because maybe we can get some details.

How many kids were there - three or four? Fifteen? All of them running round au naturel or just some of them? How old would you say they were?

Do you know for sure it was a school group? If so, how do you know? Did you talk to the adults in charge? Were they wearing some sort of teacher uniform, did they have textbooks and kiddie rucksacks piled at their feet, or how could you tell?

I'm not picking on you, just trying to establish for sure what was going on. I'm with Dougal's Breakfast, it doesn't sound like any school trip I've ever seen... so maybe there is another explanation for it.
__________________
Need help? Contact a mod.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #175  
Old 24.06.2011, 00:05
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
it doesn't sound like any school trip I've ever seen...
Actually, come to think of it, it does remind me of a school trip I saw once:



Were they jumping over a fire? Did they all have unconvincing Scottish accents?

If so, I think we might have solved the mystery after all...
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 24.06.2011, 00:08
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,264
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5,273 Times in 2,563 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
Why would I want to make this story up? I am a mother too, and I am also concern about my kids, and if such things happen. The kids were not anymore young toddlers. And it didn't seem like any moms bringing their kids for playdates. I don't need to justify any further. All I would say, the teachers have the right to stop the kids being naked in public area, during school settings. And as i mentioned earlier, whether parents let their kids run naked, it is up to them. And if the parents grant the kindergarten permission to do so, that's also their choice. And of course, when i saw it, I was shocked, and surely I wouldn't know if the permission was granted. That's why i asked 'Does the society in Switzerland allow this to happen?'
Nobody has said that you made it up. The suggestion is that you may have been mistaken about your assumption that the group was with their teachers. Did you speak to them or have anything to confirm who they were?

Whatever the make up of the group, it doesn't affect most of the comments or opinions. As you mention that you don't know if permission was granted, it seems to back up the comments that you have made an assumption. It may be quite a reasonable one based on what you saw.

Your question of 'Does Swiss society allow this?' seem to have been answered that it does. None of us know the exact circumstances of whether permission was granted or if any parents were there.
__________________
"I'll say I can't tell you when, But if my spirit is strong, I know it can't be long, No questions I'm not alone, Somehow I'll find my way home" Rod
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Deep Purple for this useful post:
  #177  
Old 24.06.2011, 00:19
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Made up or not, it is still a good debate

Parents will always been judge for what ever the decision they take regarding the education of their kids.

I wouldn't want my daughter to run around naked in a public area without ME being around. That's all, no argument in there, no discussion.

I would be mad if someone would take the freedom to allowed this without me knowing it, saying yes to it.

Pool, beach, private garden, backyard and me around: Yes

All those above and public area where we don't undress ourself like a parc and without me: NO

My child, my family, my rules. What the other parents do, I don't care, it is their business.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #178  
Old 24.06.2011, 09:12
Nev
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

Quote:
View Post
Made up or not, it is still a good debate
A good debate? Perhaps.

Quote:
View Post
I wouldn't want my daughter to run around naked in a public area without ME being around. That's all, no argument in there, no discussion..
Then again, maybe not.
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 24.06.2011, 10:07
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

I find the recurring point about parents being notified beforehand about Kindergartners possibly going naked in a park, frankly bizarre.

I am sure that the trip out to the playground, regardless of whether its a Kindergarten or Kinderkrippe would NOT have been planned as a naked event and was more likely to have happened spontaneously.

Quote:
Dear Parents

Our trip to the Chinagarten playground will take place next week. Mrs So-and-so has packed a box of Darvida and some cartons of apple juice.

Oh, and your child will be stripped free of his/her clothes and will be dancing round like a cherub for the duration.

Please tick the attached form if you would prefer your child keeps on a) socks, b) underwear c) t-shirt d) trousers.

Yours sincerely

Never-in-a-million-years School
For pity's sake, let's keep some reality on this...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #180  
Old 24.06.2011, 10:23
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,728
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,937 Times in 3,652 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers!

More likely

Quote:
Dear Parents,

Tuesday is "Come to School Naked" Day here in Zurich.

Depending on the weather we will also go to either Chinagarten or the Kunsthaus. Please can you make sure that your child brings a packed lunch (though no cervelat, for obvious reasons).

Hopefully, if this pilot is a success, we will run regular "Nudie Tuesdays" where we will encurage the parents to join in too.

Yours faithfully,
C. Darwin.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are English teachers smarter than Maths teachers? Deep Purple General off-topic 48 21.06.2011 15:50
I Brought My Heart From SF Mangosteen Introductions 3 07.12.2010 17:50
Any teachers with Muslim kids out there? Txell Swiss politics/news 5 14.05.2010 19:53
I brought my cat to Switzerland... now what? Wordsmith Pet corner 6 04.03.2010 19:29
Has anyone ever brought anything from pixmania.com? Chaletchef Daily life 8 25.11.2009 18:26


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0