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Old 29.06.2011, 17:49
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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Was just wondering how old your kids are Darcy1?

Thinking more along the lines of it being something else that may be triggering the chest infections. An infection is usually something that is passed on from an initial bug/virus is it not? (Waits to be corrected on that one )

Could it be anything to do with actually being in contact with more kids, ie started a kindergarten or something?
Hi,
They are 15,14 and 7. I must admit I have been quite shocked at the amount of issues we have had because in the main I think this is such a healthy country. I love seeing the old folk out on their bikes and hiking etc. What a wonderful lesson for our kids really.

Darcy
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Old 29.06.2011, 17:54
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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Hi,
They are 15,14 and 7. I must admit I have been quite shocked at the amount of issues we have had because in the main I think this is such a healthy country. I love seeing the old folk out on their bikes and hiking etc. What a wonderful lesson for our kids really.

Darcy
There is an awful lot of pollen around, a side effect of so much greenery and flora. Hayfever is very common and has similar symptoms. There are also local virus' to contend with by building up immunity. Over time the incidence of poor chests etc will lessen. I went through similiar when I first arrived.

As CJ said, you cannot get chest infections from exposure to passive smoking over such a short arrival period.

You need to aim elsewhere to resolve the root cause.
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Old 29.06.2011, 17:58
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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There is an awful lot of pollen around, a side effect of so much greenery and flora. Hayfever is very common and has similar symptoms. There are also local virus' to contend with by building up immunity. Over time the incidence of poor chests etc will lessen. I went through similiar when I first arrived.

As CJ said, you cannot get chest infections from exposure to passive smoking over such a short arrival period.

You need to aim elsewhere to resolve the root cause.
Talking of viral infections does anyone know of one that causes a brownish facial rash with teeny spots, vomiting and exceptionally high temperature, had my doc completely baffled when I took my son there.

Sorry for going off topic

Darcy
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Old 29.06.2011, 18:02
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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They are 15,14
I think mine had started smoking by then themselves! (and still do)

Tom
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Old 29.06.2011, 18:02
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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Passive smoking is a massive risk to people.
Not on the back a ferry with the wind blowing it away in a fraction of a second, it's not. I mean, you may as well whinge that you're afraid you'll drown if you step out into the rain.

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I think smokers are the most selfish people on the planet quite frankly.
What, you mean like above say, the CEO's of Goldman Sachs or big oil, African dictators, Silvio Berlusconi or Dick Cheney?

Have you ever actually asked any of these 'most selfish people on the planet' if they would mind moving downwind of you? If you did, I'll bet most of them would happily do so as they may not have noticed you perviously - as hard as that may be for you to imagine.



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I did not come on here for an argument



Yours,
an ex smoker
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Old 29.06.2011, 19:51
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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Seriously, you're wrong - smoke from a single source passing through the outdoor air and back inside through your open window is absolutely minuscule in quantity. And smokers aren't more or less selfish than anyone else. I'd be willing to be that your children's chest infections aren't to do with passive smoking.
To be fair, I'm a smoker, albeit a well trained closet smoker from the Eastern US, but holy hell smokers here are unbelieveable in terms of disregarding personal space and consideration. I've seen parents giving an infant a bottle with a burning cig in the same hand holding the bottle. I've been at amusement parks watching a puppet show where a parent just lights up in a crowd where nobody flinches at the smog. I've been on a train where someone lights up BEFORE the bloody doors open. Yes, these folks are unbelieveably unthinking and selfish. And, worse, they are COMMONPLACE. When I want to smoke, I go out to a local park, sans children and smoke away from people. I don't smoke in my car or my apartment, either. I never used to believe that Europe was so smoky until I moved here...I avoid the HB in Zurich just because it's like walking into an ashtray on fire. It's terrible, really. It's like waking up in a land fifty years ago. Seriously.
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Old 29.06.2011, 19:57
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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Miniscule?? I do not think so no, they are chain smokers, I cannot sleep with my windows open because it is like waking up in ash tray.

No I do not drive a car. Passive smoking is a massive risk to people. I think smokers are the most selfish people on the planet quite frankly.

I did not come on here for an argument just interested in people's views thats all.

Darcy
'Smokers are the most selfish people on the planet quite frankly?'

You need to get out more, terrorists? murderers? drunk drivers? I could go on, I think you'll find they are slightly more selfish than someone who has got addicted on something which was purchased legally and highly taxed by the government.

FFS
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Old 29.06.2011, 19:57
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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oh dear god what have I started? seriously though just like peoples views because folk get so passionate about it really, I do get cheesed off but just quietly move away with the kids. I have seen people sit there and give the smoker daggers to very little effect really. I guess their view being they pay their way onto the ferry like everyone else.

Darcy
I've given more than daggers to a few, especially one who lit up right in front of my daughter at a show recently. I was like, you don't have a child, why don't you find somewhere else to smoke. He obliged but I was seriously peeved. I've had countless people just sit down next to my daughter and light up without any thought. I understand that it's the culture since smoking with an infant in your arms doesn't seem to be unusual but, still, change comes when someone takes the baton and says, seriously, you smoke around babies?
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Old 29.06.2011, 20:09
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

It probably has to do with their immune systems- as you said you are new to the country. I was a nanny when I first moved to Switzerland and came down with every cold/cough/infection imaginable because my body had no immunity to the European viruses and bacteria. It should get better for them.

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Hi,
They are 15,14 and 7. I must admit I have been quite shocked at the amount of issues we have had because in the main I think this is such a healthy country. I love seeing the old folk out on their bikes and hiking etc. What a wonderful lesson for our kids really.

Darcy
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  #30  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:09
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

I support the ban on smoking on ferries. I do think its funny that the smokes last a shorter time in the wind. If they just waited until the end of the trip they would have a longer time to enjoy the smoke before it burnt out.
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  #31  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:57
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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It probably has to do with their immune systems- as you said you are new to the country. I was a nanny when I first moved to Switzerland and came down with every cold/cough/infection imaginable because my body had no immunity to the European viruses and bacteria. It should get better for them.
I do hope so,we have actually been here for three years but I understand what you are saying. The first winter here was just terrible for them, A whole week off school for kids who never took time off sick in the UK.

Darcy
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Old 29.06.2011, 21:15
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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Doesn't the ferry itself put out quiet a considerable amount of smoke? More than a few cigarettes?
...thats why boats have chimneys exhausting the smoke upwards, not in peoples face....

I'm not "pro-banning-smoking", but I just wish that "smokers" would realize sometime realize that many non-smokers are not so fond of...smoke...
just because you have the right to smoke somewhere does not mean that you have to...
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Old 29.06.2011, 21:53
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

Seriously! I will have to agree with most of the replies here. You can't really call smokers 'selfish'. I am a smoker and i will NEVER smoke around kids or even if i see a family near me. Its just a habit which cannot be used to judge one's nature or personality. Just the way you try to seclude yourself from people you don't like you can do the same with smokers. It's not like they are puffing around on your face every step of the way after the smoking ban. Try to be at the non-smokers area and if in some cases when you are around smokers I dont think it's difficult to step aside if you see some one smoking in open air.
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Old 29.06.2011, 22:45
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

My two cents for what it is worthed...

Since we moved here (Spain) I was very surprised to see how smoke free it is here. Really!!

People don't stuck in front of the doors smoking. And they are usually very aware of when, where and with who they smoke. Same thing about the subway exit, it isn't full of people lighting up at the moment their foot hit the ground outside.

Sorry but I can compare it with many differents countries and I really think CH is very special in term of the way smokers behave.
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Old 30.06.2011, 00:31
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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Hi,
Does anyone know if the above will ever be outlawed??

I really love my lake trips but the one thing that spoils it a bit is there is always one selfish idiot who has to light up by my family so we are forced to sit somewhere else.

I would love to see a blanket ban on all smoking in public areas. If someone wants to fill their lungs with crap,then that is there own stupid choice? why should I share their smoke,their hacking coughs and the cigarette butts which are discarded randomly. Not so much on the ferries but on the streets,on the railways.

Would be interested in your views.

Darcy
I in principle fully agree. Many smokers behave even more ugly than in the post-smoking-ban days. BUT, at the other hand, as the Federal Minimum still allows for smaller places to declare themselves as "smoking places" in any Cantons not having a Cantonal smoking ban, the priority is to have the Cantonal bans defended and to look forward to having the smoking ban on the federal lever being extended.

Please abstain from pointing to other countries, other cities. Most in charge there can work on the basis of parliamentary decisions and have NOT to go through "popular votes" all the time. To me, the emphasis is to support the Cantonal bans being maintained.

And when on ships, move FORWARD as this is the place the smokers DISlike

Last edited by Wollishofener; 30.06.2011 at 00:52.
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Old 30.06.2011, 00:36
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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I think you maybe a bit harsh there.

Firstly,
I'm a NON-SMOKER (recently) and I share your view to have the right to breathe clean air.

Next,
Smoking is addictive so the desire and need to smoke can't really be controlled........ but there is no excuse for being inconsiderate.
When I smoked I would never smoke near a child or infant.


Clearly there is no smoking inside the boat, but that is quite the oxymoron when considering where one might get some "fresh air".

Perhaps there should be some areas outside that should be free from smoke as well....... but not all of it.

You have to be realistic about what you can achieve.
Let's go to one of the main advantages of the smoking bans. Before that, numerous bars and restaurants very very very early declared "it is too cold and windy outside here, we do not serve outside, you can take your seat here or there or overthere", but since the ban, under pressure from the smokers, they keep up serving outside almost throughout winter
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Old 30.06.2011, 01:50
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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Seriously, you're wrong - smoke from a single source passing through the outdoor air and back inside through your open window is absolutely minuscule in quantity. And smokers aren't more or less selfish than anyone else. I'd be willing to be that your children's chest infections aren't to do with passive smoking.
Sorry but this is incorrect.

I had to close my windows quite often when we lived in CH, and in almost every case it was when someone's smoke would enter from the outside. If I failed to do so I would be subject to massive headaches the following morning.

I'd be quite unwilling to bet someone that their children's chest infections are not due to second hand smoke. The medical evidence suggests that this isn't a good bet. For those who are prone to allergies second hand smoke is the largest cause of respiratory problems. It is also clearly linked with the increased probability of childhood asthma.

The best thing the OP can do is to close windows when they smell smoke and try and keep them open at other times. Also it is interesting to note that concrete buildings with limited ventilation (close windows being a good example) are very bad, in and of themselves for people who suffer from respiratory complaints. You get to choose, either live with the smoke and suffer the problems that this causes or seal yourself up and suffer from sick building syndrome.

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Old 30.06.2011, 08:31
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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Sorry but I can compare it with many differents countries and I really think CH is very special in term of the way smokers behave.
I agree with you that smokers here are...perhaps bolder is the right word...than anywhere else I've been in the EU. It's so bad that I'm thinking of quitting as the HB in Zurich grosses me out so badly that I want to disassociate myself with the habit.
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Old 30.06.2011, 08:42
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

@Clangers

How much will you bet ? I still fail to see how cigarette smoke causes infection as the OP stated. Where did you get your facts from ? Diseases aren't always infections. Which is the greater risk, boarding a boat that might sink or getting an infection or disease from the negligible cigarette smoke mixed in the fresh air on the top deck ?
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Old 30.06.2011, 08:50
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Re: smoking on Zurichsee ferries

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...
(and I know a bunch of attractive young women who don't smoke. They might not fit in the big-boobed-blond-dumb-barbie-girl most young men are looking for, though...)
Kiss a non-smoker. Taste the difference.
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