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  #21  
Old 04.07.2011, 15:53
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

Well 24heure.ch took the worst example to illustrate the article. The young lady grew-up in a posh village from the Leman riviera. She received as gift a car and the LV bag before the parents divorced. So really not the average swiss young person but rather the spoiled offspring of a used-to-be rich family who finally discovers that money does not appear by magic.
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  #22  
Old 04.07.2011, 16:04
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

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My husband had some kind of budgeting / basic accounting woven into his school years, but maybe that was because he was at a "gymnasium" (grammar school) . As far as I can make out, though, the course seemed to centre on selecting brightly coloured ring-binders to organise your bills and statements. Maybe that's where they are going wrong...
I think at gymnase that might be a part of some kind of home economics class, if that exists. I know some pre/professional schools have it, some as part of curriculums, some as workshops, info lectures, depends on the maitre de classe (main class teacher), it is well done in some insitutions. I think it depends on how stigmatizing it can be also viewed, if you make it obligatory. I know it is also offered at the Caritas centres, Red Cross, councelling centres, and gov social centres and church gatherings. It's quite visible and there is publicity. Frugality should come from home, though, role models, etc. I could care less, but the competition of some creche moms for brand name clothes on tots sometimes, is nuts. I'd stress out as a creche teacher that they hurt their Gaps and other outfits.

I also think the push to recycle clothes/items would be nice. Spread the news of sites that trade things and toys, books, flee markets, 2nd hand shops. There is not much hype about vintage and recycled clothes and personal items in here as it for example is abroad, almost artistic, anyone who wants to be hip recycles clothes and hunts for something odd and unique, old. Maybe it will get here, too, and might save kids some cash. It's not a shame to not have money, shame it to giving in people shaming buddies into feeling inferior.
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  #23  
Old 04.07.2011, 16:06
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

^Soviet Sleeper agent activated....
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Old 04.07.2011, 16:07
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

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1000chf for a laptop? Sorry I mean 968chf, to be fair.
292 x 4 = 1168, NOT 968!

Tom
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  #25  
Old 04.07.2011, 16:09
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

I have to say, studying in an art school helps the student with tight budget. The older, more stained, more ripped apart t-shirt you have, the "cooler" you were.

The only brand thing I ever fell for was a pair of All Stars shoes, which I used until the sole fell apart. They were the most awesome shoes I ever had. Holes included!

I actually never had budgeting classes. I got it from my parents and tough real life...
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Old 04.07.2011, 16:14
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

Yeah....my first real salary went into getting my own place and a pair of docs I wore for 12 years, hahaha..very tall ones. They went so well with a pair of Levis I found at Seven Kings, as a faulty pair in front of a jean shop. I feel spoiling kids is depriving them of worries, true, but also from growing up.

Why buy a teenager a car, when they hardly make enough cash to buy gas..Plus if my kiddo smoked, I think the only thing I would buy would be some kind of detox.

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  #27  
Old 04.07.2011, 16:15
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

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292 x 4 = 1168, NOT 968!

Tom




Damnit! i'm terrible at "quick mathematics"

Oh right, I see....even more expensive.... she got an MAC
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  #28  
Old 04.07.2011, 16:26
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

When my kids start earning, they'll probably still be at home, living off mum and dad. I don't object to that - I've grown quite fond of them over the years. However, I will insist that they pay "rent" of 50% of their net income to me, and that all extras above food at home, bills and housing will come out of the remaining. I'll probably bank the rent somewhere safe for them, but I want them to learn that the money they get net isn't the money they have to spend.

Of course, when they're earning 2'000 (net) a week that 1'000 they're handing over to me is gonna hurt. Which may encourage them to find a place of their own!
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Old 04.07.2011, 16:34
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

Honestly, I laughed out loud reading this. She lives at home, pays apparently no rent, does not contribute to food or other costs, so has 800 fr of pocket money. And complains that she is sooooo poor, can't even afford essentials like nice meals out and manicures? As she just bought apparently (based on the price) a MacBook Air?

Switzerland really has its own understanding of poverty and hardship.
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  #30  
Old 04.07.2011, 16:36
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

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Of course, when they're earning 2'000 (net) a week that 1'000 they're handing over to me is gonna hurt.
Evil mommy! 50%? You're worse than the Swiss vermieters!!!!!! They only take 1/3 (theoretically)!
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  #31  
Old 04.07.2011, 16:37
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

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Evil mommy! 50%? You're worse than the Swiss vermieters!!!!!! They only take 1/3 (theoretically)!
The truth will out, eh NAT?
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  #32  
Old 04.07.2011, 16:39
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

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The truth will out, eh NAT?
Should it be evil daddy?

Sorry about that... Opposite to common USA press believes, it's difficult to distinguish wieners on the internet...
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  #33  
Old 04.07.2011, 17:51
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

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[...] And complains that she is sooooo poor, can't even afford essentials like nice meals out and manicures?
Well, in the circles where she grew up, maybe a nice meal out means six courses of Nouvelle Cuisine or Molecular Wizardry including a bottle of Château Lafite Rothschild.

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Switzerland really has its own understanding of poverty and hardship.
It's called poverty on a high level.
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  #34  
Old 04.07.2011, 17:53
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

Another point that struck me.

She's earning 800 CHF a month and is (only) 3000 CHF in debt.

Truly some people have no idea about debt.

This just reinforces my belief that people like this really. do. not. understand. money.

Train wreck waiting to happen.
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Old 04.07.2011, 18:32
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

Somebody just needs to give her a good shake (cant really say slap) and tell her to harden the **** up, get rid of all the extras she has and maybe get another job to pay off the debt.
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Old 04.07.2011, 18:52
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

She sounds a bit like she is where I was at around the same age, with some notable exceptions of course. I had no car (didn't know how to drive) and I also had no designer anything (let alone something as silly as a purse) BUT I still really had no idea about money and paying bills.

You see, among the things that happens for military folk is that we don't have to pay rent (not while living on base anyhow) in any obvious way. It is a simple matter that if you live in housing, you get a house, if you have to live on the "local economy", you get "extra" money to pay rent and necessities like electric, water, gas (for stove or heat).

The bills my parents did pay, we never saw them pay them, they waited until the house was quiet to do all that sort of paperwork. Understandably so, with 5 kids.

So, when I got my first job, I got an offer for a credit card. I had it maxed within a month and it took me a few years to pay it off (with the final payment being a really rough bite in the tail to simply get rid of the bill).


I learned my lesson, but I definitely learned it the hard way. Meanwhile, later, when discussing it with one of my good friends, she said that starting in her mid-teens, her father would sit down with her as he did their family bills and budget, showing where everything went and so on. She was always really good with money and bills, I chalk it up to lessons learned "early" from a patient teacher.
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Old 04.07.2011, 19:15
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

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I think at gymnase that might be a part of some kind of home economics class, if that exists. I know some pre/professional schools have it, some as part of curriculums, some as workshops, info lectures, depends on the maitre de classe (main class teacher), it is well done in some insitutions. I think it depends on how stigmatizing it can be also viewed, if you make it obligatory. I know it is also offered at the Caritas centres, Red Cross, councelling centres, and gov social centres and church gatherings. It's quite visible and there is publicity. Frugality should come from home, though, role models, etc. I could care less, but the competition of some creche moms for brand name clothes on tots sometimes, is nuts. I'd stress out as a creche teacher that they hurt their Gaps and other outfits.
I don't think it takes a home economics class. She does not have a home to manage and all her debt seems to come from luxury items. The only thing I bought on credit at that age was my first car - a credit from my parents which I paid back based on a clear plan during my service year - discussed and agreed before I bought said car.
Yes a laptop would have made my studies far easier, but I could only afford it after making a paid internship... the mindset of "I want it, I want it now and will somehow pay it later" is just completely wrong. No self discipline is the problem, not education. If you are smart enought to use an iPhone and a PC, you must be smart enought to calculate weather or not you can actually afford it.
I am sure that there are loads of people who got into debt for valid and "understandable" cases. This is none of them.
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  #38  
Old 04.07.2011, 19:31
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

Don't be suckered by sensationalist 'reporting'. Many people suffer the burden of debt and not because they're Tüssis. Carpets get pulled from under people, relationships end, bad decisions have life long consequences - never mind faultless medical bills.

Dumb kids deserve derision but she'll learn. Parents: teach your children.
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Old 04.07.2011, 20:26
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

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I don't think it takes a home economics class. She does not have a home to manage and all her debt seems to come from luxury items. The only thing I bought on credit at that age was my first car - a credit from my parents which I paid back based on a clear plan during my service year - discussed and agreed before I bought said car.
Yes a laptop would have made my studies far easier, but I could only afford it after making a paid internship... the mindset of "I want it, I want it now and will somehow pay it later" is just completely wrong. No self discipline is the problem, not education. If you are smart enought to use an iPhone and a PC, you must be smart enought to calculate weather or not you can actually afford it.
I am sure that there are loads of people who got into debt for valid and "understandable" cases. This is none of them.
When I was a student here in CH I did jobs for money in my free time rather than going out - earning money rather than spending it. I had a job at the ETH fixing instruments in the lab, and I gave some private tuition to a girl who later asked me out, and I helped my elderly landlady with her garden. And I soon learnt how to get cheap stuff. I payed 80 Franks for my first computer at the auction of a company that was winding down, used it for two more years and then managed to sell it on for 20. And I always used as a rule "even if you can afford it now, don't assume you can afford it again tomorrow" and so steered clear of anything like a car that would imply recurring costs (like taxes or insurances) that I couldn't opt out of. I never ever borrowed any money although I sometimes had to shuffle my bills.
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Old 04.07.2011, 22:57
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Re: Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

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Here we go again, the wonderful victim topic:


Two out of five young Swiss to live with debt

Poor girl can't live decent life!

Source:
http://translate.google.com/translat...tes-2011-07-03


They also posted the picture:

I almost cried, almost...
People are getting credit way too easy, especially young ones...it's simply a trap...the credit companies use the mentality of the young people today...it's absurd!
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