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  #61  
Old 14.07.2011, 11:45
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

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Make some research, look % of crimes committed by crime tourists as they are called, coming from neighbouring countries, committing crimes, and going back. Furthermore, search for inmates in swiss jails, the strong majority are not swiss nor foreigners living in Swizerland but as I said crime tourists. Teis thanks to lifting control checks at the borders...
About "thanks to lifting control checks at the borders..."

The police say this step has much improved crime fighting because of the cross border cooperation between police since Schengen.
Before criminals could just slip across the border and were not adequately pursued on the other side.
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Old 14.07.2011, 12:00
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

Crime does not have a nationality...
While most would like to believe that people who indulge in crime are mostly doing this out of need ( being imporvished, from a less fortunate strata of society) I hypothesize that more and more crimes of today are done for greed or worse for the thrill.
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Old 14.07.2011, 12:07
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

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Crime does not have a nationality...
While most would like to believe that people who indulge in crime are mostly doing this out of need ( being imporvished, from a less fortunate strata of society) I hypothesize that more and more crimes of today are done for greed or worse for the thrill.
Sorry- wrong on both counts. Certainly in Western European countries.

Burglaries are committed to feed drug habits.
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Old 14.07.2011, 12:14
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

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Burglaries are committed to feed drug habits.
So not paying for sushi is either no longer a crime or sushi is actually a drug....
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  #65  
Old 14.07.2011, 12:14
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

Eventually your door could look like this to avoid a burglery.
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  #66  
Old 14.07.2011, 12:15
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

Before moving here I read that the Swiss do enjoy the right they have to own guns and that there was even more guns than Swiss folk here.

If this is true, do they have the right to blow the head off a burglar? Just interested. Or, even, if, say, you find a burglar in your house and maybe hit them with a cleaver. Would you be jailed as in a lot of cases in the UK or get away with it on grounds of self protection (like America?)
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Old 14.07.2011, 12:22
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

This is what I have posted on my door. it seems to be working.
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  #68  
Old 14.07.2011, 16:02
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

Am Stichtag 2005 befanden sich insgesamt 3771 Personen im Strafvollzug (inklusive vorzeitiger
Strafvollzug), 1877 in Untersuchungshaft, 368 in Auschaffungs- oder Auslieferungshaft, und
deren 95 waren aus anderen Gründen inhaftiert (Polizeihaft, fürsorgerischer Freiheitsentzug). Der
Anteil der inhaftierten Frauen war in den letzten fünf Jahren mit 5 Prozent stabil. Der
Ausländeranteil an der gesamten Insassenpopulation beträgt insgesamt 71 Prozent. Ohne
Auslieferungs- und Ausschaffungshaft sind es 65 Prozent. Die Verteilung der Insassinnen und
Insassen auf die verschiedenen Haftformen hat sich in den letzten Jahren nur wenig verändert.

Die Untersuchungshaft betrifft vor allem Personen ausländischer Herkunft mit
unterschiedlicher Aufenthaltssituation

Am Stichtag 2005 befand sich ein Drittel aller Insassinnen und Insassen in Untersuchungshaft.
Von diesen 1877 Personen waren 19 Prozent schweizerischer und 81 Prozent ausländischer
Nationalität. Die Gruppe der ausländischen Untersuchungshäftlinge gliederte sich in 22 Prozent
Asylsuchende, 30 Prozent in der Schweiz wohnhafte Ausländer/innen mit Aufenthaltsbewilligung
und 48 Prozent Personen mit Wohnsitz im Ausland oder ohne bekannten Wohnsitz (crime tourists...)
(Grenzgänger/innen, Touristen, illegal anwesende Personen).

Über die Hälfte (56%) aller Untersuchungshäftlinge (inklusive Schweizer/innen) hatte keinen
offiziellen Wohnsitz in der Schweiz bzw. den Status als Asylsuchende und damit eine ungewisse
Zukunft im Land. Es ist denkbar, dass bei diesen Personengruppen von einer grösseren
Fluchtgefahr während der Untersuchungsphase ausgegangen wird und sie deshalb in der
Untersuchungshaft stark vertreten sind.


Taken from www.bfs.admin.ch Federal office of Statistics (2005) after Schengen all this figures increased, especially for border cantons due to crime tourists, entering CH to commit a crime and going back.
I can tell you that if you lived in CH 10-15-20 or more years ago, all this things were UNKNOWN! Before Schengen hundreds of thousands of people where stopped at the borders.
I am not agains foreigners, I am for the free circulation of persons but lifting all the controls have been bad, maybe not in Bern or Züri but for bordering cantons was very bad.
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  #69  
Old 14.07.2011, 16:13
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

Sorry guys, here the correct link in english. You can find lots of information not only for crime

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...en_zahlen.html
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Old 14.07.2011, 16:14
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

And here the shocking figures about PRE TRIAL detentions:

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...hungshaft.html

As you can see, we can speak of CRIME TOURISTS, don't we??
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Old 14.07.2011, 16:31
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

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Am Stichtag 2005 befanden sich insgesamt 3771 Personen im Strafvollzug (inklusive vorzeitiger
Strafvollzug), 1877 in Untersuchungshaft, 368 in Auschaffungs- oder Auslieferungshaft, und
deren 95 waren aus anderen Gründen inhaftiert (Polizeihaft, fürsorgerischer Freiheitsentzug). Der
Anteil der inhaftierten Frauen war in den letzten fünf Jahren mit 5 Prozent stabil. Der
Ausländeranteil an der gesamten Insassenpopulation beträgt insgesamt 71 Prozent. Ohne
Auslieferungs- und Ausschaffungshaft sind es 65 Prozent. Die Verteilung der Insassinnen und
Insassen auf die verschiedenen Haftformen hat sich in den letzten Jahren nur wenig verändert.

Die Untersuchungshaft betrifft vor allem Personen ausländischer Herkunft mit
unterschiedlicher Aufenthaltssituation

Am Stichtag 2005 befand sich ein Drittel aller Insassinnen und Insassen in Untersuchungshaft.
Von diesen 1877 Personen waren 19 Prozent schweizerischer und 81 Prozent ausländischer
Nationalität. Die Gruppe der ausländischen Untersuchungshäftlinge gliederte sich in 22 Prozent
Asylsuchende, 30 Prozent in der Schweiz wohnhafte Ausländer/innen mit Aufenthaltsbewilligung
und 48 Prozent Personen mit Wohnsitz im Ausland oder ohne bekannten Wohnsitz (crime tourists...)
(Grenzgänger/innen, Touristen, illegal anwesende Personen).

Über die Hälfte (56%) aller Untersuchungshäftlinge (inklusive Schweizer/innen) hatte keinen
offiziellen Wohnsitz in der Schweiz bzw. den Status als Asylsuchende und damit eine ungewisse
Zukunft im Land. Es ist denkbar, dass bei diesen Personengruppen von einer grösseren
Fluchtgefahr während der Untersuchungsphase ausgegangen wird und sie deshalb in der
Untersuchungshaft stark vertreten sind.

Taken from www.bfs.admin.ch Federal office of Statistics (2005) after Schengen all this figures increased, especially for border cantons due to crime tourists, entering CH to commit a crime and going back.
I can tell you that if you lived in CH 10-15-20 or more years ago, all this things were UNKNOWN! Before Schengen hundreds of thousands of people where stopped at the borders.
I am not agains foreigners, I am for the free circulation of persons but lifting all the controls have been bad, maybe not in Bern or Züri but for bordering cantons was very bad.
According to this link with more recent numbers from 2010 they write the % of foreigners did not increase since 2004
http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...gnpID=2011-712; The other reason that the % of foreigners looks high (from the same site) is that 31% of prisoners were in pre-trial detention; these are practically 100% foreigners. The Swiss do not like to give foreigners bail because of the percieved flight risk.

If you look at the graph in this second link you will see the number of prisoners serving prison sentences has been relatively flat since 1984; between 7,500 & 8,000. Also this graph does not show any overall increase since 2005.
http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...eberblick.html
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Old 14.07.2011, 16:34
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

Marton, what are you doing?!? You're meant to read the headlines and make assumptions, not counter with analysis.
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Old 14.07.2011, 16:35
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

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And here the shocking figures about PRE TRIAL detentions:

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...hungshaft.html

As you can see, we can speak of CRIME TOURISTS, don't we??

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? These are in PRE TRIAL detentions.
As I already wrote "prisoners in pre-trial detention are mostly foreigners. The Swiss do not like to give foreigners bail because of the perceived flight risk"
Although many of them are subsequently found to be innocent
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Old 14.07.2011, 16:36
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

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Marton, what are you doing?!? You're meant to read the headlines and make assumptions, not counter with analysis.

Oh dear, I shall say some Hail Mary's & beat myself; on second thoughts....
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Old 14.07.2011, 16:57
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

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What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? These are in PRE TRIAL detentions.
As I already wrote "prisoners in pre-trial detention are mostly foreigners. The Swiss do not like to give foreigners bail because of the perceived flight risk"
Although many of them are subsequently found to be innocent
80% foreign in detention, 71% in prison, not that big a gap given that more than 50% of which have no fixed or an unknown place of residence. Sure, it's not the 90% he was talking about previously but a very large percentage of crime is indeed foreign non-residents. (crime tourism)

I disagree however with his conclusion that the reintroduction of border control would significantly alter this fact, even though the extention of Schengen to Romania and Bulgaria has resulted in some problems with burglaries Europe-wide.
An article in the NZZ concludes that an opening of borders and the extension of Schengen are not monocausal for the heavy increase of burglaries (2008-2009 +53%) but is certainly partially responsible.
But they say that only a reintroduction of border controls with more than spotty controls that would significantly hinder border crosses could lower the burglary and general crime rate.
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Old 14.07.2011, 17:09
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

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80% foreign in detention, 71% in prison, not that big a gap given that more than 50% of which have no fixed or an unknown place of residence. Sure, it's not the 90% he was talking about previously but a very large percentage of crime is indeed foreign non-residents. (crime tourism)

I disagree however with his conclusion that the reintroduction of border control would significantly alter this fact, even though the extention of Schengen to Romania and Bulgaria has resulted in some problems with burglaries Europe-wide.
An article in the NZZ concludes that an opening of borders and the extension of Schengen are not monocausal for the heavy increase of burglaries (2008-2009 +53%) but is certainly partially responsible.
But they say that only a reintroduction of border controls with more than spotty controls that would significantly hinder border crosses could lower the burglary and general crime rate.
About "But they say that only a reintroduction of border controls with more than spotty controls that would significantly hinder border crosses could lower the burglary and general crime rate"

According to the Bundesamt for Statistik the % of foreigners commiting crimes has not changed since 2004.
So I do not understand their logic to write a reintroduction of border controls would effect the crime rate; the relaxation of border controls due to Schengen was long after 2004.

BTW, the 71% you quote of people in prison includes people in pre trial detention.

the % of foreigners actually found guilty & serving prison sentences is 57% (4693 out of 8217)
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Old 14.07.2011, 17:30
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

Good, glad we cleared that up.

Most criminals and people in jail are foreign. Opening borders hasn't really affected that too much.

Next.
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Old 14.07.2011, 17:43
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

I have friends that live in the Geneva countryside close to the border that have been repeatedly burglarized. It is always the same scenario apparently.
The burglars come from France and target a house and are back in France very quickly. They virtually never get caught. According to my friend, the police is giving up.
The goods eventually show up in eastern Europe (according to what I saw on a TSR documentary).
I feel much safer in my small town in California. The police is very visible and patrols non stop. It is certainly not the case in Switzerland.
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Old 14.07.2011, 18:38
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

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As you can see, we can speak of CRIME TOURISTS, don't we??
Well, you seem to be speaking of 'crime tourists' now, but earlier you wrote this:

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It was not like this only 20 years ago. Our house in Ticino was never locked, even during long holidays in Italy. Then we opened our country to the worst immigration, and here we are... It is sad to say that 90% of crimes are made by foreigners outside EU and North America or by Swiss with fresh printed passport...
So could you tell us who is committing these crimes? Is it the immigrants? Is it foreigners outside EU and North America? Is it Swiss with fresh printed passports? Or is it crime tourists?

Please do make up your mind.
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Old 14.07.2011, 18:39
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Re: I got burgled on Saturday

I think I should be a crime tourist next time I go on holiday. It sounds much cheaper than the usual sight-seeing tourism I typically do.
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