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  #61  
Old 09.07.2011, 16:18
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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it is not African Americans that are the most targeted foreigners here
I'll bet that the number of "African Americans" in CH is so low that even the most racist groups couldn't be bothered to target them at all!

Tom
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  #62  
Old 09.07.2011, 16:26
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

A small digression. I always liked what Woopie Goldberg had to say about being an 'African American'.
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  #63  
Old 09.07.2011, 16:29
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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No it's not. While you are correct in that it is an expression it is also a double entendre'. If the SVP were blaming light skinned people for the woes of Switzerland they wouldn't be using this imagery.
Nonsense.

The number of dark skinned people in CH is negligible.

Most criminals here are light-skinned, even the SVP knows that!

Tom
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  #64  
Old 09.07.2011, 16:40
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

Yes, this is a fact. That does NOT make the poster campaigns any less racist.
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  #65  
Old 09.07.2011, 16:41
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

Yes, this is a fact. That does NOT make the poster campaigns any less racist.

Some of the posters were clearly aimed at Eastern Europeans, like the one about Ivan the rapist, which was just appalling.
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  #66  
Old 09.07.2011, 16:47
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Carrie it is NOT the Swiss government- it is the SVP/UDC which is just a party - sadly one which does have the support of many, especially in some parts of the country. There is NO hiding the fact that SOME Swiss, and far too many imho, are racists. But there are many more who are appalled by their views and tactics and are fighting to stop their progress, me included.
Sorry, I should have chosen my words better. I really should avoid this forum when I haven't slept well and the neurons aren't firing at full speed.
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  #67  
Old 09.07.2011, 17:44
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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A small digression. I always liked what Woopie Goldberg had to say about being an 'African American'.
And what did Woopie say?She is great
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  #68  
Old 09.07.2011, 17:49
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Sorry, I should have chosen my words better. I really should avoid this forum when I haven't slept well and the neurons aren't firing at full speed.
Good thinking !.Make that "when the neurons firing at any speed or not firing at all"
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  #69  
Old 09.07.2011, 17:50
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

From Wiki:

Most of all, I dislike this idea nowadays that if you're a black person in America, then you must be called African-American. Listen, I've visited Africa, and I've got news for everyone: I'm not an African. The Africans know I'm not an African. I'm an American. This is my country. My people helped to build it and we've been here for centuries. Just call me black, if you want to call me anything.

From her book:

call me a fu***ng a••••hole but don't call me an African-American.

Further commenting that people don't say ' he is an Italian-American, or German-American, etc.
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  #70  
Old 09.07.2011, 17:50
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Nonsense.

The number of dark skinned people in CH is negligible.

Most criminals here are light-skinned, even the SVP knows that!

Tom
Fear mongering has little to do with fact. It peddles in fear and people's misconceptions.
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  #71  
Old 10.07.2011, 00:43
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Most of all, I dislike this idea nowadays that if you're a black person in America, then you must be called African-American. Listen, I've visited Africa, and I've got news for everyone: I'm not an African. The Africans know I'm not an African. I'm an American. This is my country. My people helped to build it and we've been here for centuries. Just call me black, if you want to call me anything.

From her book:

call me a fu***ng a••••hole but don't call me an African-American.

Further commenting that people don't say ' he is an Italian-American, or German-American, etc.
I say Italian-American, Iranian -American, Chinese-American, Irish- American center. and now Guyanese American. We have a German American center, a Swiss- American club, an Italian- American center. Hell, we even had our swearing -in ceremony at the Hibernian ( Irish)- American center. I volunteered at an African-American arts center, they had a whole section on African arts Kwanza is a major festival. I donated some African artifacts for their collection.

But recently in Iran my mother-in-law has a blown-up picture of my daughter with a friend. They asked where the friend was from when my daughter said she was American few times they looked pretty confused. So my daughter said African-American. To which they responded 'Ah African!' My daughter rolled her eyes as if to say I thought they were educated.

The thing that makes me laugh is that many of the white people in American most probably had African heritage. Most Americans are just so proud of their heritage even if it is generations removed. You should see them at the Celtic festivals, buying anything that has their name on it which looks Scottish or Irish. They even get their kilts out and play bagpipes. I laugh- I'm more Irish than they are, my mum was born in Scotland and my relatives speak Gaelic and Welsh. I wouldn't mind claiming to be African- American I guess it's all a matter of personal preference.
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  #72  
Old 10.07.2011, 00:51
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Fear mongering has little to do with fact. It peddles in fear and people's misconceptions.
Have you ever seen a man or woman check their belonging when dark-skinned person walk by, when they they had not bothered the whole time there were lighter-skinned people around? There have been so many studies some very interesting white people disguised as black and black disguised as white. Society still treats people differently according to the colour of their skin. C'mon we all know What the Black Sheep is all about.
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  #73  
Old 10.07.2011, 01:45
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Have you ever seen a man or woman check their belonging when dark-skinned person walk by, when they they had not bothered the whole time there were lighter-skinned people around? There have been so many studies some very interesting white people disguised as black and black disguised as white. Society still treats people differently according to the colour of their skin. C'mon we all know What the Black Sheep is all about.
Yes we do ,but have differed opinions
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  #74  
Old 10.07.2011, 08:39
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Yes we do ,but have differed opinions
Yes in days of Yore the Black Sheep had a different meaning

It's strange that the Black Sheep in well-to-do British families, those who were sent down were the ones that they sent orff to the colonies to get rid of them.

Quote:
The local “remittance man”, a title that he gracefully accepted. This label was placed on those black sheep in the family who were sent to “the colonies” with enough money to ensure survival but not enough to afford the trip back home.
Sinner on the mainland
He's a sinner on the sea
He looks for absolution
Not accountability
How many destinations
Oh God he's seen them all
He collects his precious pittance
Never a port of call

Remittance Man
Black sheep of the family clan
Broke too many rules along the way
Remittance Man
So far away from home
No they'll never understand
The Remittance Man

A man of empty pockets
From jingling his change
The idleness and grieving
For all that he retains
By the harbour lights of Sydney
Or the Bora Bora moon
He recites his sad confession
To the seagulls and the loons

Remittance Man
Black sheep of the family clan
Broke too many rules along the way
Remittance Man
So far away from home
No they'll never understand
The Remittance Man

Well you can claim that you were born a prince
But you're the only one you can convince
Survivor with no livelihood
That you could ever make it good
But still you dream of what you can pretend

An unexpected passenger
Boarded in Marseilles
An angel full of tenderness
She gave her heart away
She was but a gypsy
He was just a stray
They almost made a miracle but it slowly slipped away
So he follows the equator
With a wish to run aground
It's a very vicious circle
Goin' round and round and round
And he watches from the fantail
As the mainland disappears
Just like the Flying Dutchman
He's a prisoner of his fears

Remittance Man
Black sheep of the family clan
Broke too many rules along the way
Remittance Man
So far away from home
No they'll never understand
No they'll never understand
No they'll never understand
The Remittance Man

Now I get it the SVP are talking about all those Swiss that they sent off to South Africa as they were an embarrassment to the family, but Blocher used to support those Black Sheep- sent them arms in fact. So he is not using it in its original interpretation. clearly the word has morphed into something else.

So just to be clear, by Black sheep the SVP mean the same dark hands seen in ads dipping into the Swiss passport hat. However the defintion may also extend this to Albanians as in.....

Quote:
In a public speech held at his cantonal party's annual Albisgüetlitagung in Zürich on 20 January 2006, Blocher labeled two Albanians seeking political asylum as "criminals", although no judicial sentence had been spoken at the time. Later, when confronted, he claimed before the Swiss Council of States that he had only used the word 'accused'. Since the speech had been recorded, he then had to admit that he had used the word "criminals". In July 2006, a commission of the Council of States reprimanded Blocher, stating that the setting of false prejudice and making false statement to the Council of States constituted unacceptable behaviour for a Federal Councillor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Blocher

So which is it?
1. The Black Sheep of Swiss families which were sent abroad to places like South Africa (Remittance Men)
2. Dark-skinned people
3. Albanians
4. Asylum seekers ( really convicts in Blocher's mind)

Last edited by hoppy; 10.07.2011 at 18:47.
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  #75  
Old 10.07.2011, 09:16
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Nonsense.

The number of dark skinned people in CH is negligible.

Most criminals here are light-skinned, even the SVP knows that!

Tom
Ostensibly, the poster was aimed at people from the Balkans and Turkey. Or it was a reaction to crimes committed by youths from these groups, at the very least.

Last time I checked, these people are more likely to exhibit a characteristic phenotype which has a swarthy complexion, at least as compared to the Swiss, as a group.

Just because it can be claimed that this campaign isn't about Africans doesn't mean that it isn't engaging in racial bias. Especially in light of the treatment of the Gypsies and other ethnic minorities that are clearly visible due to phenotypically obvious differences.
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  #76  
Old 10.07.2011, 11:20
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

http://wearemoviegeeks.com/wp-content/black-sheep.jpg
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  #77  
Old 10.07.2011, 11:27
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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No it's not. While you are correct in that it is an expression it is also a double entendre'. If the SVP were blaming light skinned people for the woes of Switzerland they wouldn't be using this imagery.

The fact that the imagery they use can mean both is what makes this sort of campaign so insidious. Because, I don't believe anyone is confused as to what the SVP mean when they use this sort of imagery over and over again.
The SVPler ARE blaming light skinned people for ....... , as the ex-Yugoslavs ARE light skinned
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  #78  
Old 10.07.2011, 11:37
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Ostensibly, the poster was aimed at people from the Balkans and Turkey. Or it was a reaction to crimes committed by youths from these groups, at the very least.

Last time I checked, these people are more likely to exhibit a characteristic phenotype which has a swarthy complexion, at least as compared to the Swiss, as a group.

Just because it can be claimed that this campaign isn't about Africans doesn't mean that it isn't engaging in racial bias. Especially in light of the treatment of the Gypsies and other ethnic minorities that are clearly visible due to phenotypically obvious differences.

Most of the campaign was aimed at people from former-Yugoslavia who by average are as white as white can be, with lots of blue-eyed and blonde-haired folks among them.
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  #79  
Old 10.07.2011, 18:56
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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The SVPler ARE blaming light skinned people for ....... , as the ex-Yugoslavs ARE light skinned
So Middle-Easterners are in the clear?

A thread has just been closed about the ' trouble ' those people cause.

As long as they are wealthy and Blocher can do business with them, then they are acceptable, irrespective of their record. However if they are poor they are still not useless to Blocher; he can use them as political black sheep cannon fodder.
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  #80  
Old 10.07.2011, 19:02
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

So the sheep are politcal footballs irrespective of colour?

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