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  #81  
Old 10.07.2011, 18:33
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

I find sheep to be quite inoffensive and timid animals, no reason at all to be afraid of them.
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  #82  
Old 10.07.2011, 18:46
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Besides, wouldn't the SVP be a bit hesitant to be so blatantly racist? I would at least hope so...

I do think, however, that they should have put more forethought into their campaign/poster slogan, because I can definitely see how some people might assume that it was a racial reference.
They certainly weren't hesitant to try and portray minirets as rockets in their campaign against those. It seemed pretty intentional to me. As well as the "game" they had on their website where one could shoot Imams as well.

You can see both at the following link.

http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/schweiz144.html
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  #83  
Old 10.07.2011, 22:16
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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So Middle-Easterners are in the clear?

A thread has just been closed about the ' trouble ' those people cause.

As long as they are wealthy and Blocher can do business with them, then they are acceptable, irrespective of their record. However if they are poor they are still not useless to Blocher; he can use them as political black sheep cannon fodder.
I might not exaggerate but Middle-Easterners are not targetted by the SVP. Do not forget that the Minaret-Initiative was targetted mainly against Muslim-ex-Yugoslavs

The "trouble" in question was/is caused by some of the Saudi tourists. And so by a group of exceedingly wealthy people who are good for business.
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  #84  
Old 10.07.2011, 22:51
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

feel free to give me a few groans here but i am entitled to my opinion.

during my 6 years of working in gastronomie, although the swiss clients are the majority, the majority of problems i have had have been with foreigners.
The majority of problems i have encountered on the street and in particular in train stations, have been from foreigners.

This also includes british and other english speakers of the world! but mostly ex-yugoslav and italiens. Germans cannot be discounted from the list but the turkish have been in my experiences very friendly.

I totally agree with the SVP, if a foreign person commits a crime, dont put them in the swiss prisons where we have to pay for it, send them back to where they came from, let them cause trouble in their own communities, let the country where they were born deal with them in the ways they were brought up with.

If i commited a crime, i would have no problems with switzerland sending me home. This policy should also be in effect in britain and every other country in the world.

GO SVP!!
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  #85  
Old 10.07.2011, 23:05
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

It is NOT a question of either/or. Most people agree that serious criminals should be sent back - it is just the WAY the SVP/UDC targets specific groups and demonizes whole ethnic groups in a blanket (racist) way.
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  #86  
Old 10.07.2011, 23:15
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

Maybe they are a bit harsh to the sensitive people of this world, but ithink their approach to certain things makes them interesting and the controversy allows them to be heard above the rest.

As long as i agree with their views, i will have no problem in how they express themselves (although i believe that its down to the person who is interpreting what they are saying that is the one who interprets it as racist)

Tommy Sheridan from glasgow was a political 'extremist' who the people either loved or hated. The man is a legend in my eyes, google him if you want to know what controversy is all about, im sure you will have a good laugh at some of his stories
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Old 11.07.2011, 03:13
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

I'm sure that the Middle-Easterners feel better about knowing that the "real reason" for the minaret intitiative was hatred of es Yugoslavs.

I don't know about you but if I was apparently in the firing line I would definitely feel like it was personal and directed at me. Nice that all of you are so easy going that you can see the real reasons and ignore the hurt and shame.
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  #88  
Old 11.07.2011, 08:51
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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I'm sure that the Middle-Easterners feel better about knowing that the "real reason" for the minaret intitiative was hatred of es Yugoslavs.

I don't know about you but if I was apparently in the firing line I would definitely feel like it was personal and directed at me. Nice that all of you are so easy going that you can see the real reasons and ignore the hurt and shame.
Amr Moussa dryly commented this aspect as "it is an INTRA-European conflict of which we in a way also became victims"
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Old 11.07.2011, 08:56
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

Brilliant!!
First laugh of the week on EF


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But that's because America has a different cultural baggage. That's neither right nor wrong but just shows that different places have different cultures. America also has many things that are quite normal there that wouldn't be acceptable here. Draconian alcohol laws, death penalty, baseball etc etc.
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  #90  
Old 11.07.2011, 11:32
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Parteipräsient Toni Brunner. "Wir wollen, dass die schwarzen Schafe endlich ausgeschafft werden." Die SVP greift denn auch erneut auf das Schafe-Plakat zurück, das vor den letzten Wahlen Diskussionen ausgelöst hatte. Damals sammelte die SVP Unterschriften für die erste Ausschaffungsinitiative.

Translation: The president of the SVP wants to expel any foreigners who commit a crime in Switzerland. These foreigners he calls black sheep ( Schwarze Schafe). What sort of a stupid racist attack is that?
In general I don't think it’s a particularly bad idea, if an individual is the product of a different society criminal justice and social system, why should a different country bare the cost of incarcerating or prosecuting a criminal, send the individual back and let the society that developed the individual take the cost of his actions.

This is one thing that has recently annoyed me about the Australians sending back serial killers/ rapists to the UK, these individuals might have British passports but they have spent their whole lives in the country in which they have committed their crimes; in that case the society that has made them should be the society that pays the price.

Obviously the propaganda and silly cartoons makes the position of the SVP untenable, but this aspect of immigration is probably quite right, to a certain extent.
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  #91  
Old 11.07.2011, 11:39
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Maybe they are a bit harsh to the sensitive people of this world, but ithink their approach to certain things makes them interesting and the controversy allows them to be heard above the rest.

As long as i agree with their views, i will have no problem in how they express themselves (although i believe that its down to the person who is interpreting what they are saying that is the one who interprets it as racist)

Tommy Sheridan from glasgow was a political 'extremist' who the people either loved or hated. The man is a legend in my eyes, google him if you want to know what controversy is all about, im sure you will have a good laugh at some of his stories
gee us a brek jimmy, Sheridan is a Co*k of the highest order and belongs in prison not just for his crimes to society but also his flagrent abuse of the Socialist party for his own personal gain.
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  #92  
Old 11.07.2011, 12:30
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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gee us a brek jimmy, Sheridan is a Co*k of the highest order and belongs in prison not just for his crimes to society but also his flagrent abuse of the Socialist party for his own personal gain.
You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. My opinion is that he is a legend, I wont argue with yours as I did state that people either love him or hate him.
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  #93  
Old 11.07.2011, 13:08
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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I find sheep to be quite inoffensive and timid animals, no reason at all to be afraid of them.
Have you ever been up close to any? To describe ewes as timid is an understatement, they are down right scared. The rams on the other hand are very obnoxious and will attack anything that moves including ramblers crossing their field. Fortunately they are sufficiently small that you can laught at their feeble attemts to drive you away. But pleasant they are not.

Anyway, sheep smell.
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Old 11.07.2011, 13:16
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Anyway, sheep smell.
But they taste great (especially the young, milk-fed ones), and make great cheese.

And, personally, I prefer the black ones (they're cuter, though Hampshires are the cutest).

Tom
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Old 11.07.2011, 13:37
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

Well now, aren't the groans & thanks on posts in threads like this enlightening as to peoples true colours.
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  #96  
Old 11.07.2011, 14:01
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Sometimes the SVP advertising campaign reminds me of the Nazi campaign against the Jews. Strange that!
Anybody who doesn't agree with me politically reminds me of the Nazis. Very strange.

Must be a fixation.
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  #97  
Old 11.07.2011, 14:09
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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Anybody who doesn't agree with me politically reminds me of the Nazis. Very strange.

Must be a fixation.
Easy to explain: Rhetorics and propaganda use the same means, independently of the ideology to be propagated. Many people learn at school about propaganda with the Nazi propaganda as example. It's pedagogically very effective as people recognise propaganda as anything ressembling the nazi communication methods.

Propaganda is however used by every party and every ideology in every variations possible. Chinese heroe-mystification is the same heroe-mystification as the nazi heroe-mystification... it's just heroe-mystification. Same with all the tricks used.

At the end of the day, the only difference people make is whether they agree with the propaganda, in which case they do not call it propaganda, or don't agree with the propaganda, in which case they accuse the other part of being propaganda. The latter point leads to the analogy with nazi propaganda as archetype of propaganda and the loop is looped.

Quod erat demonstradum.
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Old 11.07.2011, 14:22
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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No it's not. While you are correct in that it is an expression it is also a double entendre'. If the SVP were blaming light skinned people for the woes of Switzerland they wouldn't be using this imagery.

The fact that the imagery they use can mean both is what makes this sort of campaign so insidious. Because, I don't believe anyone is confused as to what the SVP mean when they use this sort of imagery over and over again.
Ever heard a person called a Black Sheep (in a family situation)...?

Ever heard the expression "Black Joke"?

Has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the colour of a persons skin!

The mistake the SVP made was using the colours white and black.
If they had used red and green, or purple and yellow (oh no, not yellow, that could have been interpreted to mean Asian folk!) ... well, purple and orange ..... then there would have been no racial slurs incurred, huh?

The colours black, white, yellow, red, beige, pink and brown should be banned for political campaign use!
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Old 11.07.2011, 14:25
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

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But they taste great (especially the young, milk-fed ones), and make great cheese.

And, personally, I prefer the black ones (they're cuter, though Hampshires are the cutest).

Tom
You eat baby sheep?

The cheese is made from their Mama`s milk.
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  #100  
Old 11.07.2011, 14:28
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Re: Which Sheep does he mean?

I can understand the idea of sending convicted criminals back to their country of origin, but how would the panel feel if the criminal, upon repatriation, was instantly released by their home country?

By serving at least some of the term in the country of offence, then for the victims of the crime, some justice is assured.
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