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  #101  
Old 18.07.2011, 16:09
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

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In that case, couldn't you argue that any under-5 which got on the bus under its own steam should pay, whereas any child which was carried on should not?
AFAIK, you pay for the space to travel on the bus, not for simply getting on and off.
Nope, you couldn't. This is Switzerland, and Rules Is Rules. Here's The Rule For Kids:

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"Children under 6 years travel free of charge when accompanied by a person* holding a valid ticket."

"*The accompanying person must be at least 12 years old and may then take up to four children with them free of charge. From 16 years of age, up to 8 children may travel with them."
Couldn't be clearer - no mention of the kid being under 30cm tall, being in a bag or in any way being deemed to be hand luggage.

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Whether the OP or the inspector was in the right, there is still no excuse for being aggressive enough towards a small child to make them cry.
Indeed.

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the OP should file an official complaint against the inspector, just for that.
Against the three inspectors, surely?

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Assuming this is what happened, of course.
Indeed.
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  #102  
Old 18.07.2011, 16:14
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

Well you know, say what you like about Hitler/Mussolini/Caesar/Pinochet/Idi Armine/Mugabe/Stalin etc, at least they made the trains run on time.

My point is that there is no room for flexiblity in a totally controlled system/society - hence the prepondence of aforementioned types of people. Of course, having a national pastime of engaging in humour helps to not take life quite so seriously.
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  #103  
Old 18.07.2011, 16:26
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

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Pray, allow me...



Seems pretty clear here - the dog was not in a basket, but got on under its own steam, so didn't qualify as hand luggage and therefore required a ticket. Inspector was maybe a bit heavy-handed, I'll grant you...
So the lesson is, make sure the dog is in the bag before boarding, otherwise risk a fine under the letter of the regulations.

Alleged incivility of treatment and the basis of the alleged suspicion and the reason for the inspector allegedly shouting for wasting his time, remain unresolved.

Question: how many of you on witnessing such behaviour would get off and get involved?

I was on the 33 bus outside Hardbrücke recently and witnessed an Austrian girl get fined, and all she had was her Coop Supercard Mastercard for ID. She didn't need to leave her seat.
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  #104  
Old 18.07.2011, 19:06
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

Hi all, thankyou once again for your helpful advice. I have been into the main station in Zurich just to clarify a few things regarding my dog and the bag and have been advised to make a formal complaint which I intend to do tomorrow!
Just to clarify, my dog didnt even walk on the bus as we couldnt get a seat it was so busy, she sat in her bag just by the door at the rear of the bus and when the ticket guy struck she was completely inside lol ( not even a paw out ) My dogbag is huge and it was such a hot day I would never carry it arround if i didnt intend on using it ; ) plus the fact its not very glamourous.
Also as for the suggestion was i 'gobby' to the inspector well the answer is no as I had to be at an important meeting at 2pm that day due to my daughter starting her second year at kindergarten so I just wanted him to issue a ticket and leave me alone as we were bang on schedule
but that wasnt the case. We missed our appointment - totally messed things up for us. Luckily I was able to rearrange.
So I am hoping my headed SBB letter will help me and I will defo keep you informed on wether I have to pay or not
Once again Cheers all, its took me a few days but im fully recovered and back to my usually bubbly self : ) ) )
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  #105  
Old 18.07.2011, 20:00
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

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Also as for the suggestion was i 'gobby' to the inspector well the answer is no
Sorry..
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  #106  
Old 19.07.2011, 00:18
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

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Just to clarify, my dog didnt even walk on the bus as we couldnt get a seat it was so busy, she sat in her bag just by the door at the rear of the bus and when the ticket guy struck she was completely inside lol ( not even a paw out)
Still not clear whether the dog walked "on to" the bus or was "carried on" as hand luggage.

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My dogbag is huge and it was such a hot day I would never carry it arround if i didnt intend on using it ; ) plus the fact its not very glamourous.
How huge is the dog?

You could probably fit a Great Dane into a "dog bag", but it still doesn't make it carry on-luggage...
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  #107  
Old 19.07.2011, 10:42
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

The dog is tiny 8kg its a Pug or Mops as they call them here, I carried the dog on the bus then she got in the bag as we boarded lol : ) her paws didnt even touch the bus floor
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  #108  
Old 19.07.2011, 17:45
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

I guess the next question is is whether the dog is higher than 30cm at the shoulder. After doing a quick google the tallest a pug can get is about 38cm (height) so I guess that could possibly be her initial infraction. Even so, it would be a lot of hastle over 8cm and if the inspector never asked to measure the dog I doubt that that could be the issue, haha. Can just imagine him there with his ruler trying to measure a dog!

That said, doesn't in anyway explain the reason for the behaviour of the inspector(s).

It would be interesting to know what the result would be if the dog was 38cm yet the woman at the ticket counter said it was fine and the inspector didn't. Would the customer get fined due to the regulations being broken even if proof was forthcoming that another employee said it wasn't a problem. Guess going into a theoretical discussion doesn't help the OP much so I'll just wish her the best of luck!
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  #109  
Old 21.07.2011, 13:36
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

You mean the ticket inspector made you late for an appointment? Presumably he wasn't Swiss, then...
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  #110  
Old 23.07.2011, 15:27
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

GOOD NEWS!!

I have recieved a reply from the ZVV, The fine has been cancelled. All I have to pa is a 30chf admin fee, but better than the original 100chf. I am now on my way to the station to thank the woman that wrote me the supporting letter!

Anyone else that gets an unfair fine please complain and fight it, I believe alot of people will just pay up and these idiots get away with it.

Still upset over my treatment but pleased that he has been asked for his side of the story and they sided with me : )

Mabe he will think twice next time before issuing unreasonable tickets : ))))
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  #111  
Old 23.07.2011, 15:40
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

I'm happy for you Hayleyjay.
It was such a miserable and unfair way to have been treated.
Congratulations on having the determination not to let them get the better of you.
Sounds like at least a treat for your little daughter should be on the cards.
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  #112  
Old 23.07.2011, 19:40
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

Hi,

I don't get the SFr30 "admin fee". You were travelling legally with the right tickets if I understand your original post correctly.

The ticket inspector was in the wrong - they should be paying you an "admin fee".

Cheers,
Nick

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GOOD NEWS!!

I have recieved a reply from the ZVV, The fine has been cancelled. All I have to pa is a 30chf admin fee, but better than the original 100chf. I am now on my way to the station to thank the woman that wrote me the supporting letter ))))
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  #113  
Old 23.07.2011, 21:41
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

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Hi,

I don't get the SFr30 "admin fee". You were travelling legally with the right tickets if I understand your original post correctly.

The ticket inspector was in the wrong - they should be paying you an "admin fee".

Cheers,
Nick
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  #114  
Old 23.07.2011, 22:02
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

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Hi,

I don't get the SFr30 "admin fee". You were travelling legally with the right tickets if I understand your original post correctly.

The ticket inspector was in the wrong - they should be paying you an "admin fee".

Cheers,
Nick
The "admin" fee for when you have a valid but forgotten ticket is only CHF 5. I can't understand the CHF 30 admin fee for having a valid ticket, either.

EDIT: Here's where it shows what a CHF 30 fine is for...

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Gebühr für den Ersatz eines persönlichen Jahres-Abonnements
(Fine for the replacement of a personalised annual pass)
Still no clearer, though...

Last edited by Sandgrounder; 23.07.2011 at 22:27.
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  #115  
Old 24.07.2011, 08:48
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

It's one thing if you have forgotten your ZVV Abo - yes you can pay 5Fr admin if you show it at the ZVV office within 5(?) days.

But the OP told us that she had all the right tickets, and her dog and child were both travelling legally.

Was she supposed to have an ID for her kid maybe?

Cheers,
Nick

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The "admin" fee for when you have a valid but forgotten ticket is only CHF 5. I can't understand the CHF 30 admin fee for having a valid ticket, either.

EDIT: Here's where it shows what a CHF 30 fine is for...



Still no clearer, though...
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  #116  
Old 24.07.2011, 10:23
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

There was a case in Basel a while a go where 2 ticket inspectors got on the tram. Sitting at the back of the tram were 2 coloured guys. The inspectors starting speaking with each other in close proximity to the guys saying a lot of racial stuff (not to the 2 men but between each other) this went on for a while with them using the F and N words repeatedly. They then went to the two guys and asked them for their tickets. One of them went to his pocket to get his ticket and he pulled out a Basel Poleizi badge. The 2 guys were cops, the ticket inspectors were arrested and taken off the tram to a cheer from the other passengers.

Just shows what type of people are doing these inspector jobs and how clueless some of them can be. They deserve everything the get.
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  #117  
Old 24.07.2011, 11:32
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

I have a monthly pass that is not personally for me ( the ones that are pictured are the ones that if you forget you get a 5chf fine i think : / ) I would write the whole letter from the ZVV but its too long basically the bit about the fine says ' Ausnahmweise verzichten wir auf den Zuschlag von CHF100- und wandeln ihn in eine Bearbeitungsgebuhr von CHF30 - um. Dies da Sie genauen Vorschriften betreffend kostenlosen Mitfuhren eines Hundes offenbar nicht kannte. Da Sie unsere Rechnung schon beglichen haben, mochen wir Ihnen gerne CHF 70- zuruckerstatten. Bitte teilen Sie uns Ihre Kontoangaben mit.

I asked a friend to translate the rest of the letter as my German is not that good and basically he said that the dog was not properly in the bag!!!!


However time to just let it go I know 30chf wasnt really justified either but its better than 100chf and if I write another letter they ma charge me another 30chf 'admin fee' to aswer it : )
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  #118  
Old 24.07.2011, 12:12
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

But you had your monthly pass on you - so I still don't understand the SFr30. The money isn't a lot but what you don't want is a "record" somewhere at Tram HQ saying you are a serial fare dodger - and it seems like this is the case now. Also, the tone of the letter you got is they are doing you a favour for charging you only SFr30.

Basically I would want a letter stating that there is no case to answer and no charge to pay - and an apology for the behaviour of the inspector towards you and your child.

I am not doubting your innocence - just puzzled at how this is being handled.

Cheers,
Nick

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I have a monthly pass that is not personally for me ( the ones that are pictured are the ones that if you forget you get a 5chf fine i think : / ) I would write the whole letter from the ZVV but its too long basically the bit about the fine says ' Ausnahmweise verzichten wir auf den Zuschlag von CHF100- und wandeln ihn in eine Bearbeitungsgebuhr von CHF30 - um. Dies da Sie genauen Vorschriften betreffend kostenlosen Mitfuhren eines Hundes offenbar nicht kannte. Da Sie unsere Rechnung schon beglichen haben, mochen wir Ihnen gerne CHF 70- zuruckerstatten. Bitte teilen Sie uns Ihre Kontoangaben mit.

I asked a friend to translate the rest of the letter as my German is not that good and basically he said that the dog was not properly in the bag!!!!


However time to just let it go I know 30chf wasnt really justified either but its better than 100chf and if I write another letter they ma charge me another 30chf 'admin fee' to aswer it : )
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  #119  
Old 24.07.2011, 12:18
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

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But you had your monthly pass on you - so I still don't understand the SFr30. The money isn't a lot but what you don't want is a "record" somewhere at Tram HQ saying you are a serial fare dodger - and it seems like this is the case now. Also, the tone of the letter you got is they are doing you a favour for charging you only SFr30.

Basically I would want a letter stating that there is no case to answer and no charge to pay - and an apology for the behaviour of the inspector towards you and your child.

I am not doubting your innocence - just puzzled at how this is being handled.

Cheers,
Nick
It's also super-bizarre how they need her bank account details to reimburse the CHF 70. I've had reimbursements from SBB and ZVV twice now (once for train tickets and once for unused portion of an annual pass) and each time was a cash refund.

If I were the OP, I would go back down there with someone who speaks proper German and get to the bottom of it. It sounds very odd.
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Old 24.07.2011, 13:09
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Re: ruthless ticket inspector

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There was a case in Basel a while a go where 2 ticket inspectors got on the tram. Sitting at the back of the tram were 2 coloured guys. The inspectors starting speaking with each other in close proximity to the guys saying a lot of racial stuff (not to the 2 men but between each other) this went on for a while with them using the F and N words repeatedly. They then went to the two guys and asked them for their tickets. One of them went to his pocket to get his ticket and he pulled out a Basel Poleizi badge. The 2 guys were cops, the ticket inspectors were arrested and taken off the tram to a cheer from the other passengers.

Just shows what type of people are doing these inspector jobs and how clueless some of them can be. They deserve everything the get.
You mean those inspectors were speaking English to each other? There's no such F-word in Baseldytsch, not even in Standard German. And the cops arrested them on the spot because of using bad language? Come on. This is not Alabama. That story very much smells like an urban legend.

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I have a monthly pass that is not personally for me ( the ones that are pictured are the ones that if you forget you get a 5chf fine i think : / ) I would write the whole letter from the ZVV but its too long basically the bit about the fine says ' Ausnahmweise verzichten wir auf den Zuschlag von CHF100- und wandeln ihn in eine Bearbeitungsgebuhr von CHF30 - um. Dies da Sie genauen Vorschriften betreffend kostenlosen Mitfuhren eines Hundes offenbar nicht kannte. Da Sie unsere Rechnung schon beglichen haben, mochen wir Ihnen gerne CHF 70- zuruckerstatten. Bitte teilen Sie uns Ihre Kontoangaben mit.
That text very clearly states that, according to the ZVV folks, your dog was not being transported according to the regulations; nevertheless they cancel the fine and replace it with that admin fee in view of the fact that you obviously were not aware of your mistake. So it's your word against theirs. From their point of view, they were generous even, because according to fundamental legal principles, lack of knowledge of the rules doesn't exempt anybody from punishment.

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It's also super-bizarre how they need her bank account details to reimburse the CHF 70. I've had reimbursements from SBB and ZVV twice now (once for train tickets and once for unused portion of an annual pass) and each time was a cash refund.

If I were the OP, I would go back down there with someone who speaks proper German and get to the bottom of it. It sounds very odd.
I don't think it's super bizarre. If she had been there in person, I would have expected the possibility of a cash reimbursement, but hayleyjay got the reply by mail, so I think it's fairly normal to ask her how and where she wants to get her money back.

I agree to the rest of your post, though. If I were absolutely convinced the dog was being transported properly, I'd fight those bastards with all my legal claws and teeth, but please note the "if."
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