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  #121  
Old 31.07.2011, 11:14
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Re: Dear Joos.....

I can really confirm that shopping with kids is sort of different than without them. At times it's totally stressing out.

As grocery shopping is quite important in my household I do it like this, completely aware that everyone has their own shopping routine:

- Never shop on a Friday evening or Saturday, it's too stressful
- Buy non perishable items separately (you don't need washing powder every week).

- For the fresh items I go to the local market. It's not only fresh but you can store it for over a week without turning them into a soft pile of veggies.

- Meat and fish: fish shop, market or the butcher. The quality is way better than Migros/Coop. Compared to abroad (I can only speak for UK, USA, Singapore - well and India, but that does not count) it appears to be better, but compared to the products sold at the butchers it isn't.

- Wine: specialised wine shop.

I only go to Migros/Coop for regular items or dry product and follow the Swiss style of checking out, described many times in the previous posts.

Personally I think I buy quite a lot of good quality products, and actually never managed to spend 600.- per week (yes I also buy diapers).

As I'm also completely stressed out with shopping, I decided to change my routine and bring into it a better quality and habit (see above). The whole family enjoys it like this. Stressful moms and kids is not a good combination as the little ones tend to take it with them for quite a while into their days. It's simply not worth it.

From your posts I can feel your anger and disappointment, and if you're really thinking that the treatment you are getting is so much unfair, I suggest you put this forward to the shop manager.

The posters here have really given enough suggestions and explanations.

Hope you can pick up one or two ideas.
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  #122  
Old 31.07.2011, 11:28
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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The voice of reason amidst a mire of self-righteousness and inverse snobbism. If a lady has a rant (in the Complaints Corner), it generally means that she is pixxed off about something and wants to vent ...

That said, I miss the lovely staff at Waitrose in Richmond who always carefully packed my stuff for me, (and everyone else's), without the merest hint of a tut from behind. The answer for me in Germany and Switzerland was, as many have suggested above, to have several large bags ready in the boot for loading into, direct from the trolley.
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  #123  
Old 31.07.2011, 11:51
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Re: Dear Joos.....

Hi,

My flippant comments aside, I actually agree with the OP. Having lived in CH for a long time, it is more a case of having become used to the level of service in larger chain shops than actually appreciating it.

Last time we lived in the UK (10 years ago), our local Sainsburys would have someone pack your stuff if you spent more than £40 (or whatever). TBH I found that a pain as they would put heavy potatoes on top of strawberries and the like.

One thing I do miss here is the tills all having scales next to them, so the checkout staff just weigh your stuff - and it doesn't seem to make the queue go any more slowly. Yesterday I bought a load of fruit and veg and had neglected to weigh one item - cue tuts etc from people in the queue while I popped back to weigh it. I just wear my "you have me confused with someone who gives a f<automoderated>" expression in such circumstances.

I echo the comments about shopping in smaller places and markets - the experience is a bit more enjoyable even if you do pay a bit more.

Cheers,
Nick
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  #124  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:01
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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the lovely staff at Waitrose in Richmond
That says it all.
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  #125  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:05
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Re: Dear Joos.....

Just as an aside on this whole shopping story malarcky, have any of you ever considered how ridiculous the entire procedure is?
Consider
1) You pick an item from the shelf and put it in your trolley.
2) you arrive at the check-out, remove items from trolley and place them on the belt
3) Cashier picks up item, scans it and puts it back on the exit belt.
4) You pick up the item and put it back in the trolley
5) after paying etc, back at your car, you remove the item from the trolley and put it in a bag in your car.

So, each item is handled 5 times (excluding being placed on the shelf originally)

Possible solution: each item is equiped with an RFID tag, process now as follows:

1) You pick an item from the shelf and put it in your trolley.
2) You arrive at the auto checkout which scans your entire trolley and receives input from each items' RFID tag.
3) You pay and proceed to your car
4) Unpack trolley etc.

Items handled now only 3 times and you don't have the ridiculous hassle of into trolley - out of trolley- into to trolley and out of trolley again.

This system is being tested by a couple of supermarkets in Germany, I don't know exactly whether they're using RFID tags but this is a possibility.
I look forward to the day when the nonsense of in and out of trolley is banished to history.
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  #126  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:10
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Re: Dear Joos.....

Except no. 2 this is exactly what Passabene at Coop is about.

You scan your items while shopping and put it in your preferred shopping bag. At the check out you present the scanner and pay. That's about it.
Fantastic idea, unfortunately not available in Ticino where OP lives.


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1) You pick an item from the shelf and put it in your trolley.
2) You arrive at the auto checkout which scans your entire trolley and receives input from each items' RFID tag.
3) You pay and proceed to your car
4) Unpack trolley etc.
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  #127  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:10
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Re: Dear Joos.....

There is another point here. The Supermarket Checkouts are designed like that for a reason. They will get smaller and shorter. Because you get more room to sell stuff and you force the client to collaborate. After all packing is a job an the people who do it, the customers, have to be efficient. And it works as you can see in this thread, everybody has invented some kind of strategy.

There are all sorts of tricks used in Supermarketsl

After all a typical First World Problem once more.
If you want packing, I have seen it at Globus but then you end to spend 2400 Francs a week.
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  #128  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:12
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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Except no. 2 this is exactly what Passabene at Coop is about.

You scan your items while shopping and put it in your preferred shopping bag. At the check out you present the scanner and pay. That's about it.
Fantastic idea, unfortunately not available in Ticino where OP lives.

Yes, I knew about Passabene, the only downside to that system is that it is reliant upon the honesty of the shopper to scan the items, RFID wouldn't need the shopper to scan anything. Nevertheless, Passabene is a very good idea.
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  #129  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:24
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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The voice of reason amidst a mire of self-righteousness and inverse snobbism. If a lady has a rant (in the Complaints Corner), it generally means that she is pixxed off about something and wants to vent ...

That said, I miss the lovely staff at Waitrose in Richmond who always carefully packed my stuff for me, (and everyone else's), without the merest hint of a tut from behind. The answer for me in Germany and Switzerland was, as many have suggested above, to have several large bags ready in the boot for loading into, direct from the trolley.
How long ago were you shopping in Richmond?
Just 2 weeks ago I was in Waitrose and no one packed for me.
Maybe I looked so fierce they were afraid to come near me.
I hate supermarket shopping with a horrible hate, and I suppose it shows.
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  #130  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:28
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Re: Dear Joos.....

*** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT ***

If at any point in time, at the super-market, the cashier is waiting for you to do something, you have failed!

So back to school for shopping 101 class:

1. Load belt in the right order. The cashier should never be able to crush light objects with heavy objects if you get the order right.

2. Load belt with packing in mind. Items scanned should be able to be placed directly into the shopping bag without need of re-ordering (see item 1).

3. Load belt according to bag capacity. Plan how much should go into each bag and load belt accordingly.

4. Advanced tip: load belt for simultaneous multi-bagging (useful if you are an advanced/fast packer or have a 2nd pair of hands).

5. Create tactical timing choke points for the cashier to allow for time to remove full bag and ready next bag e.g. put item such as garlic on their which requires cashier to look-up and type the right number

6. Have your money/payment ready BEFORE you begin loading the conveyor

7. Bonus tip: put your card into the machine as soon as the customer in front has left and before first item is swiped.

8. Kids should not be taken with you to do shopping, but if you have to, they should be helping not hindering (see also Parenting Fail and Parenting 101 class).
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  #131  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:29
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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I've never seen a cashier pack ANYWHERE in Europe (CH, A, I, D, F, DK, S, N, B, NL, can't speak for other countries), so I fail to see the problem.

Tom
They do it in Romania, at Angst, and also provide plastic bags for free. You come out of the store with like 6-10 bags..Mind you Angst is a succesfful Swiss owned supermarket chain, my favorite place for grocery shopping when home.
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  #132  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:30
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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That says it all.
As does that
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How long ago were you shopping in Richmond?
Just 2 weeks ago I was in Waitrose and no one packed for me.
Maybe I looked so fierce they were afraid to come near me.
I hate supermarket shopping with a horrible hate, and I suppose it shows.
About six months ago and, if it was not too busy, we would also get a smile and a chat. And (heaven forbid), you would sometimes catch fellow queueing bods chatting to each other too
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  #133  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:31
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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How long ago were you shopping in Richmond?
It was back in the Good Old Days, when summers were endless and a Lovely Little Man used to bring her groceries to her door (the back door, of course - you can't have tradesmen muddying the drive up to the front door, can you?), whistling a happy tune, doffing his cap and calling her Ma'am, before prostrating himself at her feet and inviting her to wipe her shoes on his head.

Things have never been the same since the working classes got above their station, don't you think?
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  #134  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:34
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Re: Dear Joos.....

Quote:

Things have never been the same since the working classes got above their station, don't you think?
You said it ... however, I am not old enough to remember those halcyon days, but will take your word for it.
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  #135  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:34
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Re: Dear Joos.....

Doing anything with small children is often 10 times more stressful than without them.

I remember the days with children under 5 - you have the pushchair, the temper tantrums, kids grabbing stuff. Sometimes an impatient judgemental customer tapping their foot behind you - kids screaming.

Stress big time. Same on trams at rush hour with pushchairs - I remember it well.

When you're exhausted, have young kids - which DB is actually a hugely important full time job, with the insult that you don't get paid for it
these situations can be eased by a kindly word or a helping hand or sympathetic smile.

These situations can be exacerbated 10 fold by unhelpful people/and or judging people.

Of course when put into perspective this problem is nothing compared to what the families of the people in Norway are going through or what people diagnosed with serious illness are going through - I'm sure the OP knows that too.

But sometimes the day to day stresses, the small things, especially when you have small children, live in a country with a different language/culture and when you have zero support network, can add up and eventually become big stresses. People who are having a go at the OP I have some questions for you. "Have you experienced bringing up children and can you remember what going to the supermarket was like with small children? Have you had this experience in a new/unfamiliar culture?"

If you haven't then please don't start judging the OP. If you have then please share your helpful advice.
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  #136  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:38
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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*** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT ***

If at any point in time, at the super-market, the cashier is waiting for you to do something, you have failed!

So back to school for shopping 101 class:

1. Load belt in the right order. The cashier should never be able to crush light objects with heavy objects if you get the order right.

2. Load belt with packing in mind. Items scanned should be able to be placed directly into the shopping bag without need of re-ordering (see item 1).

3. Load belt according to bag capacity. Plan how much should go into each bag and load belt accordingly.

4. Advanced tip: load belt for simultaneous multi-bagging (useful if you are an advanced/fast packer or have a 2nd pair of hands).

5. Create tactical timing choke points for the cashier to allow for time to remove full bag and ready next bag e.g. put item such as garlic on their which requires cashier to look-up and type the right number

6. Have your money/payment ready BEFORE you begin loading the conveyor

7. Bonus tip: put your card into the machine as soon as the customer in front has left and before first item is swiped.

8. Kids should not be taken with you to do shopping, but if you have to, they should be helping not hindering (see also Parenting Fail and Parenting 101 class).
Or you can just be incredibly charming to the cashier and tell her she has a nice smile or thank her for working so fast. You'll win her heart and she'll make it comfortable for you to use the time to pack your groceries. It works 90% of the time.
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  #137  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:47
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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If you haven't then please don't start judging the OP.
I take great delight in judging those who treat those who serve them with contempt.

I see them all the time, in shops, restaurants and cafes: they're the ones who despise the waiters and assistants, the ones who are rude to them, who refuse to tip, who complain incessantly about trivial things.

These are the people who have clearly never done an honest day's work in their lives: they are media consultants or aromatherapists or life coaches. They have probably never worked a twelve hour shift with barely half an hour to rest their feet. They have probably never cleaned a stranger's excrement smeared over the floor of a public lavatory. They have probably never sat at a conveyor belt all day, having customers sneering and tutting at them for daring to enjoy a ten second break once every half hour.

You can spot them a mile off: I once saw a poor kid, clearly harassed and overworked, being yelled at by a customer because the shop was "short-staffed and needed better management". The girl couldn't have been much over 19. She had no control over staffing and was doing the best she could in difficult circumstances.

The initial post in this thread is just the internet version of the incident above. The contempt of the OP for the poor buggers who work on supermarket checkouts is clear as day.

I have no sympathy for the OP, but quite a lot for the people she condemns.

If that makes me an inverted snob, then I shall wear that label with pride.
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  #138  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:52
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Re: Dear Joos.....

[When I was a child my mother used to phone in her orders through to the butcher, baker, greengrocer etc. and they delivered the goods in large wicker baskets.<sigh> No we did not give sugar to the horses.]

Why can't the designers of checkouts at Coop ever pop round to Migros and see how they do it?

Migros have three separate depositories for customers' purchases. If one gets too full, they move the barrier to fill the next. With moderate purchases three customers can pack their stuff at a time.

Coop's checkouts have only two divisions. But worse still these are separated by a hinged plank which is designed to crush unwary customers' soft fruits when the checkout person swings it across for the next punter...
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  #139  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:53
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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Poor you, how on earth did you manage to get on a horse quite that high?

Been jolly lovely chatting, but have to dash as my butler has just informed me that I need to sign for the caviar and truffle delivery and that our yacht is ready for embarkation.

Toodle pip
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Old 31.07.2011, 12:58
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Re: Dear Joos.....

Quote:
I take great delight in judging those who treat those who serve them with contempt.

I see them all the time, in shops, restaurants and cafes: they're the ones who despise the waiters and assistants, the ones who are rude to them, who refuse to tip, who complain incessantly about trivial things.

These are the people who have clearly never done an honest day's work in their lives: they are media consultants or aromatherapists or life coaches. They have probably never worked a twelve hour shift with barely half an hour to rest their feet. They have probably never cleaned a stranger's excrement smeared over the floor of a public lavatory. They have probably never sat at a conveyor belt all day, having customers sneering and tutting at them for daring to enjoy a ten second break once every half hour.

You can spot them a mile off: I once saw a poor kid, clearly harassed and overworked, being yelled at by a customer because the shop was "short-staffed and needed better management". The girl couldn't have been much over 19. She had no control over staffing and was doing the best she could in difficult circumstances.

The initial post in this thread is just the internet version of the incident above. The contempt of the OP for the poor buggers who work on supermarket checkouts is clear as day.

I have no sympathy for the OP, but quite a lot for the people she condemns.

If that makes me an inverted snob, then I shall wear that label with pride.
Populist nonsense.....how is the Mail on Sunday this morning?

You have a habit of taking what people say and twisting it slightly to make the point you wish to make......I didn't detect in her posts any contempt for the checkout staff, just a request that they become more friendly.

Apologies if I missed it though - correct me if you can quote where she has a superior attitude to the staff, but I more thought it was towards the management.

(Not that I especially agree with her point, but your playing to the crowd is even worse)
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