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  #141  
Old 31.07.2011, 11:59
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Re: Dear Joos.....

you can also help out fellow shoppers by being patient when you are waiting for the person in front. with smartphones now, a minute's delay is easily filled with a few messages or a cheeky game of backgammon.
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  #142  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:00
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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Poor you, how on earth did you manage to get on a horse quite that high?

Been jolly lovely chatting, but have to dash as my butler has just informed me that I need to sign for the caviar and truffle delivery and that our yacht is ready for embarkation.

Toodle pip
Now this IS a useful post as I am never able to get my caviar and truffles delivered on a Sunday.
Who's your supplier?
I've rammed your yacht in with mine until I get a reply
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  #143  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:02
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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Now this IS a useful post as I am never able to get my caviar and truffles delivered on a Sunday.
Who's your supplier?
I've rammed your yacht in with mine until I get a reply
Fortnums, dahling, flown in regularly.

Unlikely, sweetpea, since we have our own marina
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  #144  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:02
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Re: Dear Joos.....

Well the OP states that she pays around 600 chfs per week. Obviously she buys a lot of things. As two very wise members said..

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I personally don't like supermarkets period. Buying from small places you get better quality. So some of you will say and the cost rises. So don't buy so much, it is all swings and roundabouts but small places have to try harder and customer care is usually but not always superior.
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But anyway, if there's no passebene in Ticino, have you thought to split your shopping into two segments. I always do the heavy, non perishable and some frozen stuff via online shopping. If I don't have to pick over it, then it can be delivered. Plus you can set up a list of standard items and save that in you account.

Then, I buy soft goods, perishables, things I want to inspect in the store.

I worked as a salesperson and i know that is not the nicest job in the world. And a customers attitude can make or break your day. But obviously nothing is going to change on their side so if you want to be less stressed and frustrated change your attitude.

I wait at the till patiently for customers in front of me even if they are really slow and im getting annoyed. You never know that this may be the only time they get out of the house during the day. You dont know anybodys situation so dont assume.

And then i have always a big smile for the person working. It always works. Never had a problem and i got my stuff bagged once. As for the other customers behind me. well, tough. I try to be as fast as possible. If they dont like it thats their problem. Life is difficult enough without stressing about what some people i dont know think

And anyway unless i pay nobody moves. So there! :P
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  #145  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:06
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Re: Dear Joos.....

you're the perfect candidate for LeShop.ch!!
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  #146  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:09
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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Now this IS a useful post as I am never able to get my caviar and truffles delivered on a Sunday.
Who's your supplier?
I've rammed your yacht in with mine until I get a reply
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Fortnums, dahling, flown in regularly.

Unlikely, sweetpea, since we have our own marina
Ok great. Now please, can you both get your childish games of naval wars out of my swimming pool?
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  #147  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:10
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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<snip>......I didn't detect in her posts any contempt for the checkout staff, just a request that they become more friendly.

Apologies if I missed it though - correct me if you can quote where she has a superior attitude to the staff, but I more thought it was towards the management.
If this isn't contempt and a superior attitude, what is it??

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Instead of offering to help she then sits idly whilst you furiously try to stuff your shopping into the bags to clear more space. No, she never offers to help. No, instead she sits, arms folded, just watching. <snip>

Does your cashier not have a responsibility to assist all your customers to the best of their ability? Otherwise, what is the point of having a human sitting at the desk. Surely a robot would do the job just as well. Just a little compassion for their fellow man would not go amiss - if you see someone struggling, is it not your natural reaction to want to help? The answer, if you are a Coop cashier, is plainly no.
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  #148  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:11
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Or you can just be incredibly charming to the cashier and tell her she has a nice smile or thank her for working so fast. You'll win her heart and she'll make it comfortable for you to use the time to pack your groceries. It works 90% of the time.
This is an interesting point. My butcher remarked to me that i always smile. And i always say hello and smile to the people working the checkout. I've found them to be very nice and helpful most of the time. Not everyone is nice...there are jerks, but that's more a human thing, not a Swiss thing.

But i don't shop with small children. I imagine that is difficult. I have shopped with chemo brain wearing funny hats and sunglasses. I just take my time and smile, not much else to do. Sometimes i'm sure i annoy people. They can kiss my butt.
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  #149  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:15
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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That said, I miss the lovely staff at Waitrose in Richmond who always carefully packed my stuff for me, (and everyone else's), without the merest hint of a tut from behind.
Interesting that you mentioned Waitrose, and from another thread I seem to recall you know the Ramsgate Waitrose as well. In there they typically don't pack everything for you, but they will get you started and start packing for you if you are still unloading. All except for one woman in particular. The first time I encountered her I almost said to my daughter "Hand the nice gentleman the money" and then just before opening my mouth I realised she was a woman. She never cracks a smile, mumbles a reply when you say hello and good-bye, and just hasn't got the hang of Waitrose customer service. Maybe next time I see her I'll have to ask "Sind Sie Schweizer?"
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  #150  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:19
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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Or you can just be incredibly charming to the cashier and tell her she has a nice smile or thank her for working so fast. You'll win her heart and she'll make it comfortable for you to use the time to pack your groceries. It works 90% of the time.
If I did that there's a 99% chance she would be totally creeped out.


Now, I don't want too get to heavy here, and I know that these sentiments will be be viewed as misty eyed nostalgia from a self flagellating technophobe, BUT:

The more I go on the more I am amazed and appreciative of the privileges we have as humans in a highly developed country. My folks are squarely middle class, but they still recall a time when it was a treat to eat meat, or real butter. When Christmas meant a tin airplane or some clothes for their doll baby.

The advances in technology in the last century- last half century to be certain- have made things that were previously rare into commodities. And as each little advance is made we assimilate it and instantly take it for granted- so much so that I think our poor little brains haven't had a chance to fully grasp what's going on. It's been hinted at already in this thread, but sometimes our perceived problems are really just symptoms of our advantages.

I realize that the bagging thing is something that used to be common (well, other places than here), and is flagging, but consider that the pace of life and population density have increased massively in the last quarter century. Used to be that someone else would fill your car up with gas too, check the oil and tire pressure, it just takes too much time now, there are too many cars. And the bottom line is that what counts is the bottom line- no matter what kind of spiel a company reels off about loving their customers what they really love is when that card goes in the machine. Any way they can get more cattle through the chute is fair game.
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  #151  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:23
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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5. Create tactical timing choke points for the cashier to allow for time to remove full bag and ready next bag e.g. put item such as garlic on their which requires cashier to look-up and type the right number
Excellent idea!! Except I would say don't risk getting Robo-Cashier who knows the codes by heart. Bring a black marker with you and deface the barcode on a small unimportant item. When it doesn't scan it will slow down the cashier as you continue to pack. Then when you catch up, if the problem isn't solved yet, you fein annoyance and say you don't want the item as it is holding up all the other lovely customers and is obviously the supermarkets fault, not the wonderful cashier's.
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  #152  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:23
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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the Ramsgate Waitrose
Ramsgate has a Waitrose? There is no God.
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  #153  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:26
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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If this isn't contempt and a superior attitude, what is it??
Yeah....maybe you're right

I regard contempt a little more like "You're a mere servant to me as a checkout person and therefore should do my bidding" rather than "This person was unfriendly" so I thought that DB was making a massive generalisation and assumption. I can say "The toilet cleaner / cinema worker / hooker / brain surgeon / Dalai Lama was a miserable sod" and that doesn't make me contempuous about their job as it relates to mine. I thought that the OP was complaining about particular members of staff and I didn't think that it deserved the personal attacks, that's all
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  #154  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:49
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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I take great delight in judging those who treat those who serve them with contempt.

I see them all the time, in shops, restaurants and cafes: they're the ones who despise the waiters and assistants, the ones who are rude to them, who refuse to tip, who complain incessantly about trivial things.

These are the people who have clearly never done an honest day's work in their lives: they are media consultants or aromatherapists or life coaches. They have probably never worked a twelve hour shift with barely half an hour to rest their feet. They have probably never cleaned a stranger's excrement smeared over the floor of a public lavatory. They have probably never sat at a conveyor belt all day, having customers sneering and tutting at them for daring to enjoy a ten second break once every half hour.

You can spot them a mile off: I once saw a poor kid, clearly harassed and overworked, being yelled at by a customer because the shop was "short-staffed and needed better management". The girl couldn't have been much over 19. She had no control over staffing and was doing the best she could in difficult circumstances.

The initial post in this thread is just the internet version of the incident above. The contempt of the OP for the poor buggers who work on supermarket checkouts is clear as day.

I have no sympathy for the OP, but quite a lot for the people she condemns.

If that makes me an inverted snob, then I shall wear that label with pride.


Very passionate argument - and I agree with you. The problem is the post is NOT about judging shop workers and people working in such positions. The post is about how bloody difficult it is to deal with a particular supermarket "policy" here in Switzerland especially when you have young kids in tow.


These difficulties are added to if the particular shop worker is impatient and difficult and that seems to be the experience the OP has had. They would be helped with a different policy (helping pack) and in combination with a bit of patience from the shop worker which of course is sometimes difficult as people are people and we all have good and bad days. (I've worked in a shop as a student.)

Nowhere in the OP's posts is there anything suggesting "all shop workers are like this or that" The post is commenting on a policy and illustrates that with some personal experience.

You could start a new post on how we as the public can help shop workers (and we certainly can - a smile, a kind word) they are human beings too who have good and bad days.

But your reply smacks of assumption and judgement. How do you know who has and who hasn't done an honest days work? How would you classify an honest days work? If the OP is a full time mother that job involves:

cleaning up shit and vomit
cooking and feeding
Playing with and disciplining
Cleaning the house (including the toilet)
Being "on call" 24 hours a day
Being a nurse to your child
taking them to and from where they need to be
Shopping

Would that fit your criteria of an honest days work? What if the OP was an alternative therapist and a mother? Having to go out to her job then come home and still do the above?

I disagree the contempt the OP shows for shop workers is not as clear as day. What is as clear as day is the OP has had some stressful experiences in supermarkets with her kids in tow and a bit of practical help from the cashiers might have helped in such circumstances. We don't know how long the OP has been in CH or where she arrived from. The OP uses descriptive rhetoric which some might interpret as contemptuous but perhaps the OP should come and speak for herself - I'm only writing from how I interpreted the post (which I know other people are too which is fair enough)
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  #155  
Old 31.07.2011, 12:53
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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Nowhere in the OP's posts is there anything suggesting "all shop workers are like this or that" The post is commenting on a policy and illustrates that with some personal experience.


But your reply smacks of assumption and judgement. How do you know who has and who hasn't done an honest days work? How would you classify an honest days work?
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  #156  
Old 31.07.2011, 13:19
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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But your reply smacks of assumption and judgement. How do you know who has and who hasn't done an honest days work? How would you classify an honest days work? If the OP is a full time mother that job involves:

cleaning up shit and vomit
cooking and feeding
Playing with and disciplining
Cleaning the house (including the toilet)
Being "on call" 24 hours a day
Being a nurse to your child
taking them to and from where they need to be
Shopping

Would that fit your criteria of an honest days work? What if the OP was an alternative therapist and a mother? Having to go out to her job then come home and still do the above?
I understand what you are trying to say, but comparing the raising of a child, someone who you love unconditionally with every fiber of your being and who returns that love, with dealing with hundreds of strangers every day, many of whom might expect things of you you can't do because of policy, many of whom are grumpy and frustrated and flustered and shed a little or a lot of that on you, one after the other, comparing those two things is stretching a little.

I think it was one of the Freakonomics books that described a scenario at a daycare center. Parents were constantly bringing their kids late, which was creating a mess with the running of the morning activities. The daycare decided to fine the parents who brought their kids late. Result: more parents brought their kids late, more often. The psychology of it is the parents figured they were paying for their tardiness, and this relieved them of any guilt or emotion and made it easier for them to show up late.

In the rest of the world, it's very easy to come down on those who serve us, since, hey, they're getting paid right?
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  #157  
Old 31.07.2011, 13:27
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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I've never seen a cashier pack ANYWHERE in Europe (CH, A, I, D, F, DK, S, N, B, NL, can't speak for other countries), so I fail to see the problem.

Tom
The Globus in Luzern does it the last week before Christmas and I think they even throw in a few free bags.

Of course they charge a bit more than Migros/Coop and I think they don't even sell diapers with the foodstuffs.

When I was growing my mother did the monthly shop for all the non-perishables, where we even had to mark the prices on everything. Perishables were bought on a weekly basis at the nearby grocery store. I did something similar in the U.S., but substituted Costco for the big monthly shop. This practice doesn't seem to be so common here, but the introduction of on-line shopping (already mentioned a few times on this thread) would seem to be a logical replacement.
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  #158  
Old 31.07.2011, 13:32
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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I know living in a new country means you have to adapt, and I have, and I really enjoy living here, but this shopping thing is just a pain in the bloody arse. I don't want to have to bother to think logistically about how I load/ unload my trolley, what bag I use (when I even remember to bring my own), which queue I pick, just to make sure that I don't upset the queue by having too much stuff. It just shouldn't be this involved.
Welcome to Switzerland, the country of having to think about everything all of the time. It is not somebody else's problem if you don't feel the need to engage your brain in an activity that approx. 95% of the population can manage just fine without feeling harassed. I like the way it works and for your scale of shopping, I suggest LeShop or Coop@home.
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Old 31.07.2011, 13:38
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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I understand what you are trying to say, but comparing the raising of a child, someone who you love unconditionally with every fiber of your being and who returns that love, with dealing with hundreds of strangers every day, many of whom might expect things of you you can't do because of policy, many of whom are grumpy and frustrated and flustered and shed a little or a lot of that on you, one after the other, comparing those two things is stretching a little.



I'm not comparing the two they both have very different pressures. I'm a parent and have also worked in a supermarket - I can only speak from my own experience.

I'm guessing reading your reply that you're not a parent yet Of course you love them unconditionally but believe me, parenting can often be a thankless task, a mundane and stressful job. You do your best and get a temper tantrum or mouthful of cheek back (not all the time - but it happens)

My point was people who have not had the experience of raising kids need to be careful in suggesting it isn't a full time job or that it's some kind of easy ride.

Last edited by MusicChick; 02.08.2011 at 14:45. Reason: fixed quote
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Old 31.07.2011, 13:41
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Re: Dear Joos.....

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Welcome to Switzerland, the country of having to think about everything all of the time. It is not somebody else's problem if you don't feel the need to engage your brain in an activity that approx. 95% of the population can manage just fine without feeling harassed. I like the way it works and for your scale of shopping, I suggest LeShop or Coop@home.
It is a bit daft, Jasmine, to put your soft fruit on the belt before the heavy stuff and, maybe, the cashier was, out of total exasperation, trying to show you how daft it was, by chucking the heavy stuff on top of the fruit. Not very friendly, that I accept.
Sorry, but you do need to engage your brain even for something as apparently 'mindless' as supermarket shopping.
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