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  #41  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:34
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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What I also find insulting are the prices some of those local papers go for. I believe that this is the main reason why more and more people start reading their news online.
Murdoch wants to charge for that now as well!
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  #42  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:51
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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I dont know if you can read German, but the neue Zuercher Zeiting is a highly respected newspaper, very balanced and authentic
Highly respected? Yes. Balanced? LOL. NZZ has as much conservative bias as you can get without entering FOX News territory.

But honestly: Daily newspapers are biased. All of them, in every country. The question is not if they have a bias, but which one. If you are aware of it, you pick the paper that fits you.

Why? Because this bias defines their target audience: Conservative people want to read different stories than progressive and then like to read an opinion that is allowed to cross some lines, but they would not want to read something that opposes their view completely. So yes, newspapers have clearly defined target audiences and as it looks is LiB so weird that he does not fit into any one of them
It usually already helps to have a look who the paper you want to buy owns.

I personally prefer the Tagesanzeiger to the NZZ but tend to agree - both have pretty decent international news, but the local stories are terrible. I believe it's a lack of market and to be honest: I read their articles online and they are for free. You get what you pay for: If their revenues rocket down over the last decade... they do need to cut costs somewhere.

Last tip: If you do want to read absolute quality without bias, there is only one German magazine which made exactly this it's trademark: Die Zeit. Only comes weekly and often even has a "split" front page: Two articles on the same topic with oposing opinions and arguments.

A very interesting read I am willing to pay for, but you really need time to read it.


But just to give an idea what I think is "real bias":

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  #43  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:55
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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Last tip: If you do want to read absolute quality without bias, there is only one German magazine....yadayadayada
Well of course..where else could the best magazin come from?
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  #44  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:57
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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Well of course..where else could the best magazin come from?
No, there are plenty of good newspapers in the world. But I though you were discussing German languaged newspapers delivering news that is relevant to central Europe.

You can of course read le monde as well, but I guess it will not really report on Olten.
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Old 11.08.2011, 12:03
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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No, there are plenty of good newspapers in the world. But I though you were discussing German languaged newspapers delivering news that is relevant to central Europe.

You can of course read le monde as well, but I guess it will not really report on Olten.
No, no...I was clearly discussing Swiss journalism not German tabloids.
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  #46  
Old 11.08.2011, 12:06
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Financial Times for me
That reading level is too complicated for me. Plus I usually find myself not being tickled by their stories.

It's my perception that readers of the Financial Times are workaholics or like to look important because they have a peach-colored newspaper and mine is just boring white.




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Old 11.08.2011, 12:07
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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That reading level is too complicated for me. Plus I usually find myself not being tickled by their stories.

It's my perception that readers of the Financial Times are workaholics or like to look important because they have a peach-colored newspaper and mine is just boring white.




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I would say that perception says more about you than FT readers.
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  #48  
Old 11.08.2011, 12:14
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

It's true, there isn't much quality journalism. Articles seem to be paraphrased from other newspapers, and just translated so they won't dream of having an alternative viewpoint and then are quite prejudice on top of that.

Having the London riots on the first page is a change though, usually it's about some cow that fell into a hole and broke it's leg.
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  #49  
Old 11.08.2011, 12:14
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

I'll give an example of the style that annoy me when reading Swiss papers: Todays title story of the Tagesanzeiger, second largest newspaper in German speaking Switzerland:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/10028803

"Steuervorteile weg – für Schweizer Banken brechen härtere Zeiten an"

"Tax advantage gone - hard times ahead for Swiss banks"

The article is on the Swiss-German tax deal. Switzerland managed (again) to have a cake and eat it: They signed a contract which allows them to not report tax dodgers to Germany. In return they have to collect the normal German taxes in capital and send it to Germany anonymously.
(So all criminals will continue to bring their money here as the German government (including the police) will continue to not have a clue if and how much they store here. Well done, banks!)

Calling tax dodging a "tax advantage" in the headline is nothing short of misleading. Complaining that Swiss banks "now have to compete with German banks" is nothing short of bizarre.
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Old 11.08.2011, 14:38
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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It is astonishing to me that Thun (pop 42000) has a daily newspaper - how can that be a sustainable business with such a small pool?
As far as I know the Thuner Taglatt and Berner Oberländer (and many other local newspapers) just produce the local news part, for the rest they share content with the Berner Zeitung, which is quite similar in content with Der Bund, which shares content/editorial work with the Tagesanzeiger (all part of Tamedia).

The "Jahrbuch der Qualität der Medien" (only in german I believe) has a good overview of the development of print media in Switzerland.

An attempt at a translation of the conclusions of this report:

Due to the almost complete commercialisation of the "information press" (?:-)), sinking sales numbers and lower advertising and "Abo" revenues, the information press is less than ever focusing on the citizen and the core of public communication (politics, economy, culture). Instead they are adjusting to the media consumer (sport, human interest) and the heavily populated centres. Information as cheap as possible is pushed through as much channels as possible. The quality of the information press is suffering as a consequence of these develoments. This and the intensive concentration (my example, Tamedia) leads to a recycling of the news/"more of the same" and decreases the differences in content from Bezahlzeitungen (papers you have to pay for) and the free papers (like 20min).

Journalism as a profession is losing prestige ("deprofessionalisation";-) because of the cutbacks of "ressorts", research competence and research capacity (catchword is multi channel journalism).

It is to be expected that these developments will continue. This will diminish the "service public" of the information press and accelerate the shift to soft news (people and private). The Boulevard and the Gratis media is at the front of this development (characteristics are: focus on "human interest", episodical reporting and taking a big part of the content from media agency reports). The Gratis media is focusing on events in politics or economy with a high potential for personalisation and scandalisation: The world outside of Switzerland mainly consists of catastrophes, crisis and affairs.

It's a scandal, I tell you ;-)
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  #51  
Old 11.08.2011, 15:26
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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You forgot Private Eye
I did and it's good. I've read it many times but never bought it myself.
The only way to properly enjoy Private Eye is to subscibe to it. Not only because it's cheaper, but mainly because if you don't you can't threaten to cancel your subscription (if you don't read Private Eye, you won't know why that's important - just trust me, it is)
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  #52  
Old 11.08.2011, 15:44
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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What I also find insulting are the prices some of those local papers go for. I believe that this is the main reason why more and more people start reading their news online.
A bit of a vicious circle, isn't it. You want better journalists. They want to get paid. The readers don't want to pay, because it's all online anyway innit (said online content being obviously generated by the big free content generator in the sky). So you (a) either need to attract advertisers, result: general dumbing down and more "t*ts out" pics a la Daily Mail or (b) hide behind a paywall (Murdoch) or (c) fire the better journalists and cut & paste articles from elsewhere, or straight press releases, or (d) close down. Take your pick.
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  #53  
Old 11.08.2011, 16:06
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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A bit of a vicious circle, isn't it. You want better journalists. They want to get paid. The readers don't want to pay, because it's all online anyway innit (said online content being obviously generated by the big free content generator in the sky). So you (a) either need to attract advertisers, result: general dumbing down and more "t*ts out" pics a la Daily Mail or (b) hide behind a paywall (Murdoch) or (c) fire the better journalists and cut & paste articles from elsewhere, or straight press releases, or (d) close down. Take your pick.
Well, that is highly debatable. I don't think putting more adds in will dumb down the content..if the content is noteworthy to begin with. I firmly believe, that people still like a hardcopy newspaper and therefore, will keep subscribing to one. However, I don't how charging 2.3 Chf for a parochial, cut-and-paste paper is anything but a rip-off.
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Old 11.08.2011, 16:09
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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I recently found it hard to read any Swiss newspaper. It doesn't really matter which paper you pick up; articles are heavily biased and most news-stories seem to be a cut a paste job from either a police report or a foreign paper. What's your take on it?
Well, I could live with that... But the newspapers (in particular the ones owned by one of the two large Swiss media corporations) are rather a collection of commercials, copy+paste of media releases from related companies (owned by one of the two large players as well...)
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Old 11.08.2011, 16:32
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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You forgot Private Eye
And in Suisse Romande you have 'Vigousse' , lol. My nephew is one of the illustrators/cartoonist.
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  #56  
Old 11.08.2011, 20:37
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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I think it is a dilution thing....I can't believe how many daily papers are printed in this small country.......
No kidding. And it's even more than meets the eye: for example, the Zürichsee-Zeitung has separate editions for different parts of the lake! On my daily ride (the boat from Stäfa to Wädenswil), I often see the "Zürisee-Ziitig" in both the "Bezirk Meilen" and "Bezirk Horgen" editions. Now, the content appears to be 100% identical, just the choice of cover stories varies. But still, when I think of the extra overhead to do that…

But it gets worse. Why does every major company in Switzerland feel the need to have its own magazine? I don't need magazines from the Migros, Coop, SBB, the Gemeinde power company, my health insurer, Mobility,… (none of those are made up). Oh and the Gemeinde, too.
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  #57  
Old 11.08.2011, 21:18
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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I'll give an example of the style that annoy me when reading Swiss papers: Todays title story of the Tagesanzeiger, second largest newspaper in German speaking Switzerland:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/10028803

"Steuervorteile weg – für Schweizer Banken brechen härtere Zeiten an"

"Tax advantage gone - hard times ahead for Swiss banks"

The article is on the Swiss-German tax deal. Switzerland managed (again) to have a cake and eat it: They signed a contract which allows them to not report tax dodgers to Germany. In return they have to collect the normal German taxes in capital and send it to Germany anonymously.
(So all criminals will continue to bring their money here as the German government (including the police) will continue to not have a clue if and how much they store here. Well done, banks!)

Calling tax dodging a "tax advantage" in the headline is nothing short of misleading. Complaining that Swiss banks "now have to compete with German banks" is nothing short of bizarre.
That just indicates that you are under a different bias than that paper, though. You seem to think it's right and natural that banks in one sovereign country should report to a foreign government, despite not falling under that government's jurisdiction, whereas the author of the article doesn't.

There is no neutral viewpoint; looking for unbiased news is about like looking for an honest politician. No such animal.
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Old 13.08.2011, 10:12
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

Death implies that something was once alive. Now I've been here for over 30 years and as far back as I can remember Swiss journalism has never been "alive". This is why I cancelled our subscription to the local papers and rely on the English language newspapers.
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Old 13.08.2011, 13:53
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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I recently found it hard to read any Swiss newspaper. It doesn't really matter which paper you pick up; articles are heavily biased and most news-stories seem to be a cut a paste job from either a police report or a foreign paper. What's your take on it?
A) This is the result of the cost-saving measures of many publishing companies. If you in journalism have to do fill more space at the same time, you simply copy and paste the police report or CAA report in question.

B) It does not only SEEM to be, it is just a copycat. Switzerland (German speaking CH I refer to ) now in reality has less than 5 really separate newspapers (NZZ-group and affiliates, T-A group and affiliates, BAZ group and affiliates). The whole rest takes over large chunks "en-bloc" from the "group-leader"

C) to have more than 3 relatively big newspapers on approx 4 mio people, and at least 2 of them even exported (to Germany) is not such a bad performance

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I dont know if you can read German, but the neue Zuercher Zeiting is a highly respected newspaper, very balanced and authentic
the NZZ is one of the "group-leaders" mentioned.

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Certainly. However the main newspaper aren't that far off either IMO.
Unless, the aricle is copied from somewhere, the content is absolute garbage. For instance, after the gruesome incident in Norway, there was an article in the paper how the Swiss police would have reacted faster for various reasons. It all seems rubbish with random specks of propaganda.
Not just the printed press and not only in Switzerland but the media internationally quite in general after the "Norway-incident" clearly was "beside the shoes", as they had to destroy all their pre-prepared copycat rubbish about elQaeda and Taliban ! And most journalists on earth had as much of an idea about politics in Norway as I had which means almost none

And if somebody thinks that police in Switzerland would have been faster, alright, let him think so. My guess would have been to the contrary !

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It's demand versus supply. The Swiss don't tend to read newspapers with the same attitude or zest as the French or Brits. Many Swiss traditionally watched the TV for their "news fixes" and theses days commuters scan the freebie tabloids on their way to work. This is not a society that is transfixed to the printed media, so although titles such as the NZZ and the Tagi have been around for ages, they are not the be all and end all of newsfeeds for the masses.

I'm not sure if this is a generalization, but I think that a lot of the Swiss are generally complacent and naïve about worldly affairs, either because they don't bother reading quality journalism or because they just don't care to peek outside of their comfort bubble. (We'll except Wolli from this).

I'm happy with my weekly Köppel fix in the Weltwoche, but that has a conservative leaning and seems to seek assertiveness over other publishing houses more often than not rather than putting journalism first. I would bring German publishers under scrutiny too; they seem to push effort into their weekly magazines rather than their daily press which tends to be more regional than the UK for example.
Do not forget that 20Min is the PrixGarantie-version of the TagesAnzeiger, with many articles transferred en-bloc

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No, there are plenty of good newspapers in the world. But I though you were discussing German languaged newspapers delivering news that is relevant to central Europe.

You can of course read le monde as well, but I guess it will not really report on Olten.
In France, my favourites are Le Monde and Liberation, with some preference on the Liberation

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And in Suisse Romande you have 'Vigousse' , lol. My nephew is one of the illustrators/cartoonist.
The Romandie paper I sometimes read is "Le Temps". Quite well done, I think

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Last edited by Wollishofener; 13.08.2011 at 14:25.
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Old 13.08.2011, 14:31
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Re: The death of Swiss journalism

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most news-stories seem to be a cut a paste job from either a police report or a foreign paper. What's your take on it?
Nothing different than the way most all newspapers do it in the States. I worked 13 years for a newspaper in California and we subscribed to the AP (Associated Press) wire service. We took articles from the wire service, cut them down in size (if needed) and pasted them into our newspaper.

AP wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press

News wire agencies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_agency

AP website: http://www.ap.org/
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