Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 17.08.2011, 11:45
Mud's Avatar
Mud Mud is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Romandie
Posts: 2,552
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 5,008 Times in 1,828 Posts
Mud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post

She remarked that whilst freedom of speech is good, to display such posters in tourist prominent places just gives the world the impression that Switzerland really isnt that welcoming a place afterall - even to her as a tourist. She even took some pictures, up they went on FB and no prizes for guessing the reaction to those pictures.
That sentiment is more dangerous than the SVP. (I know I know it was your friend SR) You can't yell Fire! in a crowded theater, no, but to yell Dirty Immigrants! doesn't immediately endanger anyone... you won't be Googling fire in cinema when you may be on the verge of incineration. But any curious person can look up what the real stats on immigration are and see what other policies the SVP or any other party support.

One could argue that Plato was right in that a democracy is unworkable as the common masses will never have the desire or motivation to acquire enough knowledge to elect leaders who are adequate and appropriate. So maybe a democratic state like Switzerland actually works because the people are told what they need to think by the leaders who need their votes.

Whatever . From an only slightly cynical viewpoint, the leaders of a country will do what they need to do to remain in power and to acquire more power. A country built on a set of rules that give certain inalienable rights to the people should (ideally) keep a surplus of power in check, but when the people become scared and offer up some of those rights (free speech) for a sense of security the latch has been broken and a stampede is imminent.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Mud for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 17.08.2011, 11:46
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
Come on, really! I am talking here about offensive posters against a group of person. Advertising products is totally different. No one with enough intelligence should be offended by them.
No, not really.

If the poster said, we only want White immigrants, or only want Black immigrants, or only want Protestant Christian immigrants, or only want Atheist immigrants, that would be racist and discriminatory. But the poster is saying, there is too much immigration. Is it wrong to say that? How many countries that you know genuinely welcome all immigrants with open arms and an open heart?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 17.08.2011, 11:47
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
No, it lives in Spain.
Quote:
View Post
But you dont even live in CH!
Is there somewhere a rules that says at the moment you leave the country, you must stop to care for it?

Should I apply for a permit? Should I write down somewhere that I am out of the country, but please let me care since I'll be back in a few years?



Quote:
View Post
I'm sorry, Nil, but the image of a few feet walking over a map of Switzerland is hardly in the same category.
Yes, you are right. I thought it was a denonciation of their posters in general, not just that one.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Nil for this post:
  #44  
Old 17.08.2011, 11:47
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
But advertising racist and discriminatory opinions and ideas are not acceptable on the name of Saint Freedom of Speech.
I would guess that would be dependent on the exact law right? I don't know enough about constitution here or the protection of free speech and any ammendments.

Quote:
View Post
In that case, why not advertising posters of people eating babies, pictures of women being gang rapes, kids prostitutions or a man doing a sheep?
Just to add a lighter touch to this conversation.....what the hell sort of poltical party would this be that you are thinking of starting????

Quote:
View Post
But innocent pictures of minarets looking like missils, covered women looking angry, black hands reaching a swiss passports are fines, aren't they?
I guess the real question is are they legal or not. I don't think most people here think that they are tasteful, useful or okay.

It is a very slippery slope when you start creating laws about what people can or can't say in public or private. Just look at the mess the UK has created for themselves, where private speach about having a water-fight now gets you arrested in the UK.
__________________
Living it up in Gersau.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank colinwheeler for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 17.08.2011, 11:48
porsch1909
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
That's what I was thinking.



If you were to draw a line horizontally across Switzerland I gues it would be about the middle. (or slightly north of the middle) I cewrtainly wouldn't class it as South Switzerland.
I think he might have been implying south as in backwards (a la south in the US)
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 17.08.2011, 11:50
aperez's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bern
Posts: 94
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 40 Times in 26 Posts
aperez has earned some respectaperez has earned some respect
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
(Except that their members are more likely to be currently kissing cows than doing what you do. Probably)
Hahahahah, that was funny, and true
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 17.08.2011, 11:51
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
But any curious person can look up what the real stats on immigration are and see what other policies the SVP or any other party support.
Good point Mud, but idealistic - since people tend to form an opinion, and judge based on first impressions. I mean, hasnt EF taught you ANYTHING?
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 17.08.2011, 11:52
Mud's Avatar
Mud Mud is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Romandie
Posts: 2,552
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 5,008 Times in 1,828 Posts
Mud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
Good point Mud, but idealistic - since people tend to form an opinion, and judge based on first impressions. I mean, hasnt EF taught you ANYTHING?
OK- I'm going with Plato!

Edit- usurping Grynch's Play-doh comment!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 17.08.2011, 11:56
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
Whatever . From an only slightly cynical viewpoint, the leaders of a country will do what they need to do to remain in power and to acquire more power. A country built on a set of rules that give certain inalienable rights to the people should (ideally) keep a surplus of power in check ...
Switzerland does the opposite. At least in theory, the people have a certain amount of power in check and the government is expected to jump to it. That's why everybody keeps their rifle at home.

The recent problem has been (from the SVP's point of view) that several of their recent initiatives were accepted by popular vote, but the lawmakers (who never agreed with these initiatives in the first place) have been dragging their feet in implementing them into law. Hence the SVP says the government isn't taking the people's word seriously enough and is now whetting its knives again to make them jump.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 17.08.2011, 11:57
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,729
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,942 Times in 3,654 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Anyway. Another fantastically successful campaign by the SVP, it appears.

Their aim is to get people discussing what they see as a problem. If they get people talking then there's a chance that they get a few more "don't cares" to care and they get an awful lot of liberals sticking up for their right to free speech.

I'd be surprised if, postcountwise, the SVP aren't the most discussed topic on this forum.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:04
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,995
Groaned at 268 Times in 227 Posts
Thanked 23,803 Times in 9,714 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
I think he might have been implying south as in backwards (a la south in the US)
Ah of course. Sorry I am being a bit slow today. Probably because I live in the deep South.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:05
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,405
Groaned at 365 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 23,797 Times in 8,610 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
I'd be surprised if, postcountwise, the SVP aren't the most discussed topic on this forum.
To be fair can one expect a strong anti-immigrant movement to be the most discussed topic on an immigrant discussion forum, no?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:08
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CH
Posts: 452
Groaned at 9 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 648 Times in 282 Posts
Laertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

I think to understand the focus on immigration of SVP you have to look at it from a historical point of view. Back at the beginning of the 1990s they were the only (major) party who opposed Switzerland entering first the EEA and then the EU. Their victory in the vote aboud Switzerland's entry into the EEA let to the SVP's rise. Since then they sticked to the same set of topics. At least this is what the Zurich wing of SVP (led by Christoph Blocher) did. The SVP would have nothing to gain if the changed the focus of their campaign. They would only risk to lose again voters they gained in recent years.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Laertes for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:11
porsch1909
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
Anyway. Another fantastically successful campaign by the SVP, it appears.

Their aim is to get people discussing what they see as a problem. If they get people talking then there's a chance that they get a few more "don't cares" to care and they get an awful lot of liberals sticking up for their right to free speech.

I'd be surprised if, postcountwise, the SVP aren't the most discussed topic on this forum.
I think brown sugar wins
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:12
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

To veer back to the original topic of this thread.

The OP is suggesting we petition the SBB to ban a poster off its property. This poster is permitted and in use elsewhere. So the petition is asking for SBB to implement a stricter policy that the national one, and the degree to which that policy is stricter would affect only the SVP. So basically the OP is asking us to petition SBB to apply political bias in accepting posters. Now SBB is a national institution and is hence at the mercy of all parties to approve its ongoing subsidies and infrastructure investment. In its advertising campaigns, SVP often claims the motorist is being milked in this country, speed cameras are bad, lots of other things that motorists don't like are bad, and anyway too much money is being spent on public transport and not enough on cars. Seeing how people like Giezendanner make their money, it's not surprising they should say that. And of course in any conutry motorists believe they are being treated unfairly and being milked so strategically that's a useful group of sheep to have on your side. Fortunately in reality, the SVP isn't as pro car as it pretends and has approved and supported all major public transport spending bills that came up in recent years while only pretending to rock the boat or demand marginal changes just to keep its voters happy. Now if SBB were to openly turn its guns on SVP and refuses to accept its (advertising) money. Where do you think that would take us?
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #56  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:12
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Just as little bit of background the percentage of foreign born residents in Switzerland is very high for Europe and I am sure that they notice this and it does create questions.

Stats from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lation_in_2005 based on a UN report.

Just the European interest spots and one or two other markers.
Vatican City - 100%
Andorra - 77.25%
Qatar - 75.9%
United Arab Emirates - 71.4%
Monaco - 70.11%
Luxembourg - 37.42%
Liechtenstein - 35.31%
San Marino - 32.01%
Switzerland - 22.89%
Latvia - 19.46%
Estonia - 15.19%
Austria - 14.9%
United Kingdom - 8.982%
__________________
Living it up in Gersau.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank colinwheeler for this useful post:
  #57  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:18
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,729
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,942 Times in 3,654 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
To be fair can one expect a strong anti-immigrant movement to be the most discussed topic on an immigrant discussion forum, no?
I don't see many mentions of the FPS.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:19
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
I don't see many mentions of the FPS.
Psst, they haven't heard of them yet.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:25
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,405
Groaned at 365 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 23,797 Times in 8,610 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
Just as little bit of background the percentage of foreign born residents in Switzerland is very high for Europe and I am sure that they notice this and it does create questions.
No, not really.

- Given the size and location of Switzerland is it pretty logical that at least the cities are melting pots of various European cultures meeting here. This was the case for centuries if not millenia. England is an Island in the corner of a continent. Seing nearly ten percent there is actually more of a surprise.
- the vast majority of foreigners come from the neighbouring countries Germany, Italy, France and Austria.
- The Swiss economy is strong, specialized and needs highly trained staff - which the country fails to produce in sufficient numbers themselves. One could argue that this is due to too many Swiss kids recognizing that there is more money in banking than IT, so there are not enough IT or Pharma graduates. So there is immigration. Arguing that these immigrants raise the rents is plain rubbish - the strong economy raises the rents in the inner city. If there were no jobs that pay well, rents would not go up. Arguing that these immigrants "take our jobs" is even more pointless - they just take the jobs as there are no locals with the right education available. The low unemployment number is a clear proof of that.

The problem is that the average SVP voter is frankly not educated enough to see this. Again: 95% did not go to university, they would never be employed by the pharmas or banks in higher positions. What they do see is the high rent and the many Porsches driving around - while not being able to afford one themselves. When it comes to the "German" part of the Ausländer discussion do I see mainly jealousy from low earning Swiss... claiming "they are dumping the salaries" within the same speech as "they are responsible for the high rents" is so plain rubbish that even an uneducated worker should see how they are abused by power hungry populists.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:30
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

I agree with everything you have said but my point is that it creates questions, personally I don't believe issues. Questions are good right?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cff, ffs, poster protest, sbb




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best way to complain to SBB keymoo Complaints corner 77 17.12.2018 08:19
Foreigners not the target of the latest SVP posters panda Swiss politics/news 109 12.05.2011 16:18
Where to complain about noisy neighbours? icgrp Daily life 14 13.01.2010 12:29
Hi to the Weekend Posters !!! Sada General off-topic 12 12.12.2009 18:37
How to complain about a runway Guest Daily life 17 30.05.2007 14:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0