Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:31
transition
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
Ah of course. Sorry I am being a bit slow today. Probably because I live in the deep South.
Actually I wasn't, compass wise from me, it's south!
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:37
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,354
Groaned at 363 Times in 293 Posts
Thanked 23,687 Times in 8,573 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
I agree with everything you have said but my point is that it creates questions, personally I don't believe issues. Questions are good right?
That depends on how you phrase them - and the SVP is quite notorious for that part.

The current posters don't have as strong pictures as before, but the details are important: "Stop the mass immigration" means that the SVP is convinced that there is a mass imm igration going on right now. The Swiss society is actually growing and yes, this is due to immigration. But when is it "mass" immgration? - a very negative word typically connected to starving refugees on boats.

The choice of words is as always important - you will have a hard time finding anyone who would say "yes, i want mass immigration", but how many will you find to support you if you ask "do you believe we are having a mass immigration into Switzerland right now?"... or "do you think immigration is too strong?".

Last but not least have they never ever answered where they are willing to cut the costs if they actually successfully throw out the foreigners and killed the jobs here.
"Are you willing to pay X% more taxes in order to not have to see foreigners here anymore?" would be a fair question. I doubt you'll ever see it on posters.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:53
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
The current posters don't have as strong pictures as before,
I would beg to disagree. It's not as offensive maybe, but the image of black boots marching over a Swiss flag is quite clear. There is a clear implication of the Swiss being the underdogs. There is even something vaguely military about those black boots. An invasion is being suggested. This is stronger than it has been in any campaign than I can remember.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 17.08.2011, 12:56
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,198
Groaned at 63 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
No, you don't have to like them. But if you have respect for your customers, ALL your customers, you select carefully your advertisers which will respect your philosophy and customers.
See this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_922354.html

It is shameful pandering to hateful people.

Even if the hateful is on the other foot, it's still a business' choice to support/promote/extoll an advertiser or observance.

Why should a business cave in just because people don't like something?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank KeinFranzösisch for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 17.08.2011, 13:08
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
See this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_922354.html

It is shameful pandering to hateful people.

Even if the hateful is on the other foot, it's still a business' choice to support/promote/extoll an advertiser or observance.

Why should a business cave in just because people don't like something?
I totally agree 100 % with you.

But I believe it is a difference to open your business on minorities like the exemple you give and standing up for it and promoting racism and discriminations.

The SBB exemple and the Whole Food store are opposite to each other. One is promoting hateful feeling while the other one is refusing to give in those feelings.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 17.08.2011, 13:21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Solothurn
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts
Tupolev-134 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

AS a non SVP-Swiss, I can understand your points. On the other hand, I believe in freedom of speech and this should also be applied to political posters. Forbidding these is a breach of democracy IMHO.

As for me, the posters have an opposite effect. I really don't wanna vote SVP. They polarize people into left and right and I really think sometimes the SVP is doing themselfes more harm than good. A more diplomatic approach may be better.

Is there any democracy on earth where, when elections are coming up, the parties will not try to spread fear with their propaganda? I doubt it, but will be open for any examples...

Best regards

Michael
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Tupolev-134 for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 17.08.2011, 13:21
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,354
Groaned at 363 Times in 293 Posts
Thanked 23,687 Times in 8,573 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
I would beg to disagree. It's not as offensive maybe, but the image of black boots marching over a Swiss flag is quite clear. There is a clear implication of the Swiss being the underdogs. There is even something vaguely military about those black boots. An invasion is being suggested. This is stronger than it has been in any campaign than I can remember.
As it seems is the picture then stronger for a Swiss having a black boot walking over your flag. I can tell you that from all posters the one with the different colored hands grabbing Swiss passports was the strongest for the non-white people I know. I personally found the the "Ivan" style ones stigmatizing certain nationalities as criminals of the worst kind (rapists, pedophiles...) the worst.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 17.08.2011, 13:29
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,844
Groaned at 267 Times in 226 Posts
Thanked 23,540 Times in 9,616 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
Actually I wasn't, compass wise from me, it's south!
But then your response assumes that everybody reading is at the same latitude as you surely.
If you really are in central CH I would think La Chaux de Fonds would be west.

Sorry I'm having one of my pedantic days again
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 17.08.2011, 13:39
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
I totally agree 100 % with you.

But I believe it is a difference to open your business on minorities like the exemple you give and standing up for it and promoting racism and discriminations.

The SBB exemple and the Whole Food store are opposite to each other. One is promoting hateful feeling while the other one is refusing to give in those feelings.
No, the Whole Food example shows that managment believe there is more money to be made in opening their doors to Muslims than in railing against them. That's a business decison. Money has spoken. I see no evidence of any deeper ethics in their decision. No more than a shop selling Christmas stuff is promting Christianity. It's just plain business.

The SBB example shows that if somebody puts money on the table he gets what he wants. Again, money has spoken. In the bigger picture of things, there is no difference. If a brown sugar company had put that same money on the table those posters would now be advertising brown sugar.

Youu can only talk about standing up against the current when you're rejecting money or business opportunties because your ethical standards are higher.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 17.08.2011, 13:40
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
Why should a business cave in just because people don't like something?
I am just trying to see a store in Saudi Arabia have a Christmas or Hanukkah specials.

Yes it is stupid but no, it is not exclusive to Christian rednecks.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 17.08.2011, 13:42
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 199
Groaned at 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 81 Posts
AhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputation
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

You don't know that. They may find your presumption quite insulting.
Clearly the word "ethics" means nothing to you.

AYB

Quote:
View Post
No, the Whole Food example shows that managment believe there is more money to be made in opening their doors to Muslims than in railing against them. That's a business decison. Money has spoken. I see no evidence of any deeper ethics in their decision. No more than a shop selling Christmas stuff is promting Christianity. It's just plain business.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 17.08.2011, 13:48
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
You don't know that. They may find your presumption quite insulting.
Clearly the word "ethics" means nothing to you.

AYB
Have you been reading Ayn Rand or something?
There is nothing ethical in maximising your income.

maybe if you can prove that this decison lost that store more custom than it gained them, you could say there was an ethical decison. But I see no evidence for that.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #73  
Old 17.08.2011, 13:49
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,354
Groaned at 363 Times in 293 Posts
Thanked 23,687 Times in 8,573 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
Fortunately in reality, the SVP isn't as pro car as it pretends and has approved and supported all major public transport spending bills that came up in recent years while only pretending to rock the boat or demand marginal changes just to keep its voters happy. Now if SBB were to openly turn its guns on SVP and refuses to accept its (advertising) money. Where do you think that would take us?
The SVP will shout whatever their voters want to hear. Looks like the average low educated, low income, over average male Swiss voter likes his car.

With top level SVP politicians actually making their money by building trains (http://www.peter-spuhler.ch/), I would not expect them to act as radical as they talk here... all double decker Zurich S-trains, many sbb ones, Bernese ones... all from an SVP politician owned and run company: http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 17.08.2011, 13:57
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
The SVP will shout whatever their voters want to hear. Looks like the average low educated, low income, over average male Swiss voter likes his car.

With top level SVP politicians actually making their money by building trains (http://www.peter-spuhler.ch/), I would not expect them to act as radical as they talk here... all double decker Zurich S-trains, many sbb ones, Bernese ones... all from an SVP politician owned and run company: http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/
Nevetheless, Spuhler is a minority in his own party, If you remember the Avanti initiative you will recall how SVP was pulling all the tricks it could to build the image of cars and roads being hopelessly disadvanatged against public transport. But this is not just Switzerland. In the USA, the Republicans are railing against Obama's plans for high speed trains because cars are supposed to be freedom. In Germany, the car lobby is one of the best organised lobbies on the planet and the politicians of all parties (except maybe the Greens) kiss their ars* on a daily basis, with a speed limit on motorways being considered on par with nuclear war. In Britain, the BNP has been railing against speed cameras and even the big parties have been caving to that. So car drivers everywhere believe they are being hard done by and milked and right-wing parties are especially sympathetic to that whining.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 17.08.2011, 14:05
m_dalloway's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 323
Groaned at 14 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 363 Times in 170 Posts
m_dalloway has an excellent reputationm_dalloway has an excellent reputationm_dalloway has an excellent reputationm_dalloway has an excellent reputation
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
They are around 30%. That's not "some party", it's one third of the population that votes for them and their smear campaigns. I don't care that 95% of those do not have a higher education (source), but I do care that one third of the people on the street don't want me to be here.
Exaggerating, much?

The election turn-out for the parliamentary election was 48%. So this means,
14% of the Swiss population voted the SVP into the 'Nationalrat' (chamber of CH parliament, similar to US house of representatives), and 6% of the Swiss population voted the SVP into the 'Staenderat' (chamber of CH parliament, similar to the US senate).
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank m_dalloway for this useful post:
This user groans at m_dalloway for this post:
  #76  
Old 17.08.2011, 14:10
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,354
Groaned at 363 Times in 293 Posts
Thanked 23,687 Times in 8,573 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
Exaggerating, much?

The election turn-out for the parliamentary election was 48%. So this means,
14% of the Swiss population voted the SVP into the 'Nationalrat' (chamber of CH parliament, similar to US house of representatives), and 6% of the Swiss population voted the SVP into the 'Staenderat' (chamber of CH parliament, similar to the US senate).
What leads you to the conclusion that the 48% turn-out was not representative for the remaining 52%? Are you seriously suggesting that nobody from the non-voters support the strongest party in Switzerland?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #77  
Old 17.08.2011, 14:13
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
What leads you to the conclusion that the 48% turn-out was not representative for the remaining 52%? Are you seriously suggesting that nobody from the non-voters support the strongest party in Switzerland?
You could also extrapolate those 30 percent onto the world population and say that the SVP has more than 2 billion supporters. Do you smell the BS?

Normally when people don't vote its because they don't care one way or the other.

Seven out of ten points for trying though
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #78  
Old 17.08.2011, 14:15
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,243
Groaned at 118 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Quote:
View Post
What leads you to the conclusion that the 48% turn-out was not representative for the remaining 52%? Are you seriously suggesting that nobody from the non-voters support the strongest party in Switzerland?
Not nobody, but I would make a fair presumption that SVP supporters, probably being more "reactionary" than your average Swiss, are more likely to vote. Therefore, I think the SVP are probably over-represented in parliament.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 17.08.2011, 14:59
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,131
Groaned at 170 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

I'm already getting on a train, how far do they want me to go !?!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 17.08.2011, 15:22
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 199
Groaned at 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 81 Posts
AhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputation
Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

You have some strange views on retailing. One minute you are waxing lyrical about everyone-is-an-owner joy of Migros then you are casting (sic) assertions on the motives of a small retailer for not discriminating.

Maybe you should read a bit more, and post a bit less.

AYB

Quote:
View Post
Have you been reading Ayn Rand or something?
There is nothing ethical in maximising your income.

maybe if you can prove that this decison lost that store more custom than it gained them, you could say there was an ethical decison. But I see no evidence for that.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cff, ffs, poster protest, sbb




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best way to complain to SBB keymoo Complaints corner 77 17.12.2018 08:19
Foreigners not the target of the latest SVP posters panda Swiss politics/news 109 12.05.2011 16:18
Where to complain about noisy neighbours? icgrp Daily life 14 13.01.2010 12:29
Hi to the Weekend Posters !!! Sada General off-topic 12 12.12.2009 18:37
How to complain about a runway Guest Daily life 17 30.05.2007 14:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0