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  #101  
Old 18.08.2011, 16:18
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

Doesnt anyone against the SVP have the intelligence or funding to reply with their own well written anti SVP campaign.
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  #102  
Old 18.08.2011, 16:30
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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I received information about a campaign to ask the SBB to remove posters at railway stations suggesting heavy immigration by the SVP.
The SBB rents out advertising space to ad companies. Those companies can put up whatever they want, as long as it's legal. Some of the railway-stations or some areas in them may not even belong to the SBB, so you won't know whether the billboards in question actually are SBB's responsibility.

This is a democracy - idiotic ad campaigns and billboards from all political sides are part of the deal here. Unfortunately, the SVP has by far the biggest money pot for these kinds of campaigns, that's why they're overly present.


Peter



ps: there IS extremely heavy immigration into Switzerland. Not that I would vote for the SVP initiative because frankly, I hate the SVP's guts, but you might want to shift the subject of your complaint towards how this immigration is depicted in the SVP-typical fear-monger style.
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  #103  
Old 18.08.2011, 16:31
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

be happy that the SVP is paying to keep railway stations clean and tidy. And that their funds are being spent well
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  #104  
Old 19.08.2011, 11:12
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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As much as I am happy to be out of Switzerland, I do have it in my heart though. And since I am going to be back eventually, I have CH's politic and futur at heart too.

So yes, it doesn't affect me, not now. Maybe it will in the futur. But it does affect people in the country, in the area.

To not be there doesn't stop me to have interest in those subjects and certainly doesn't stop me to have an opinion about them.
You have Switzerland in "your heart" because Switzerland works. So what are you complaining about? SVP has a right to campaign and you're not going to find anywhere in this world where everything fits your own "personal" agenda. You have to think more broad minded. It's part of living, it's part of life. If Switzerland changed to "your way of thinking" it doesn't mean it would be a better place. The Swiss know what they are doing and that's one of the reasons you want to return,or why bother? Why do you miss Switzerland and want to return? I love that Switzerland doesn't get into parellel societies. This group has this right, this group has another right etc...It's ruining some countries that I won't bother to mention here. Being PC (politically correct) is not part of the Swiss psyche and I love that...at least they can still speak their mind without being sued at every turn.
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  #105  
Old 19.08.2011, 12:37
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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This is a democracy - idiotic ad campaigns and billboards from all political sides are part of the deal here. Unfortunately, the SVP has by far the biggest money pot for these kinds of campaigns, that's why they're overly present.
I'd have said by far the biggest idiocy pot, myself
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  #106  
Old 19.08.2011, 12:40
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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I'm already getting on a train, how far do they want me to go !?!
Doesn't matter, there's a new Ausländer initiative which aims at taxing foreigners for living abroad.
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  #107  
Old 19.08.2011, 12:58
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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You have Switzerland in "your heart" because Switzerland works. So what are you complaining about? SVP has a right to campaign and you're not going to find anywhere in this world where everything fits your own "personal" agenda. You have to think more broad minded. It's part of living, it's part of life. If Switzerland changed to "your way of thinking" it doesn't mean it would be a better place. The Swiss know what they are doing and that's one of the reasons you want to return,or why bother? Why do you miss Switzerland and want to return? I love that Switzerland doesn't get into parellel societies. This group has this right, this group has another right etc...It's ruining some countries that I won't bother to mention here. Being PC (politically correct) is not part of the Swiss psyche and I love that...at least they can still speak their mind without being sued at every turn.
I like the way you defend the right to expose racism and discrimination in its full joy!

30% of this country are foreigners. They may be there for the cash, but they are also there because the country needs them.
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  #108  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:12
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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I like the way you defend the right to expose racism and discrimination in its full joy!

30% of this country are foreigners. They may be there for the cash, but they are also there because the country needs them.
But can you ban a discussion just because somebody is saying something you disagree with? Wouldn't it be more in the spirit of democractic discourse to start collecting money yourself and putting up posters with the counter argument, or supporting an organisation that does so? If you tear down a poster you are automatically giving the person who made the poster the underdog bonus (and the SVP is very good at playing the underdog card despite being the strongest party and having a bundesrat). Every SVP poster you see that has graffiti on it or otherwise been defaced is a win for the SVP. It strengthens their claim that they're alone against a big wicked world.

Only tyrants need to silence their opponents. The SVP pray that some tyrant will try.
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  #109  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:16
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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But can you ban a discussion just because somebody is saying something you disagree with? Wouldn't it be more in the spirit of democractic discourse to start collecting money yourself and put up posters with the counter argument, or support an organisation that does so? If you tear down a poster you are automatically giving the person who made the poster the underdog bonus. Only tyrants need to silence their opponents.
This reminds me of my time at Uni, the Student's Union had a ploicy of "no platform for racists and fascists". I always thought this was ludicrous, let them say their shite and then be subject to the deserved ridicule and abuse that would entail.
After all, it worked with Nick Griffin
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  #110  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:21
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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But can you ban a discussion just because somebody is saying something you disagree with? Wouldn't it be more in the spirit of democractic discourse to start collecting money yourself and put up posters with the counter argument, or support an organisation that does so? If you tear down a poster you are automatically giving the person who made the poster the underdog bonus. Only tyrants need to silence their opponents.
If you campaign for parlement seats, yes ok, I agree with you. You can pass a message but racism and discrimination should not be acceptable in this society. Freedom of speech, no matter what? No thanks, I don't agree that everything is good to say.

Would it be acceptable if tomorrow morning I put posters saying black people stinks, let's kick them out? Or Nazi was right to kill Jewish, let's kick them out?

Do you still believe it is my right to do it? And in the law to protect those posters to not be put down, or teared?

Freedom of speech is a precious right. But it should be used with respect for other human being.

To call someone an idiot is something, but to make racist comments against a group of people for their origines, cultures and skin color is not a freedom of speech one should aspire to.
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  #111  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:24
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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Freedom of speech, no matter what? No thanks, I don't agree that everything is good to say.
And who decides what is good to say or not?
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  #112  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:24
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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This reminds me of my time at Uni, the Student's Union had a ploicy of "no platform for racists and fascists". I always thought this was ludicrous, let them say their shite and then be subject to the deserved ridicule and abuse that would entail.
After all, it worked with Nick Griffin
I was surprised that was so easy and that he was so utterly unprepared for what was going to hit him.

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And who decides what is good to say or not?
The people on EF of course.
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  #113  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:25
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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be happy that the SVP is paying to keep railway stations clean and tidy. And that their funds are being spent well
it's funny... because the people keeping the railway stations clean and tidy are people the SVP would probably prefer to kick out of the country.
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  #114  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:27
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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And who decides what is good to say or not?
The population. Which is why, if you want things to change, you should get involve and do things like the OP is doing...
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  #115  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:29
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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Would it be acceptable if tomorrow morning I put posters saying black people stinks, let's kick them out? Or Nazi was right to kill Jewish, let's kick them out?

Do you still believe it is my right to do it? And in the law to protect those posters to not be put down, or teared?
Are you seriously putting such statements in the same category as the demand for more controlled immigration? Have you ever heard of Godwin?
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  #116  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:31
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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The population.
Good, as long as we can agree that it is a democratic decision that is majority based and backed up by the constitution. I guess then our freedom of speech is to bitch and complain as much as we want about the racist SVP posters and it is thier freedom of speech to post them as much as they want, until the Law is changed. Commercial organisations will follow the law, not an outraged minority.
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  #117  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:39
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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Are you seriously putting such statements in the same category as the demand for more controlled immigration? Have you ever heard of Godwin?
No, I am pushing.

And I have all their posters in my mind, not just that one.
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  #118  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:40
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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Good, as long as we can agree that it is a democratic decision that is majority based and backed up by the constitution. I guess then our freedom of speech is to bitch and complain as much as we want about the racist SVP posters and it is thier freedom of speech to post them as much as they want, until the Law is changed. Commercial organisations will follow the law, not an outraged minority.
That is, if you agree that the democratic process should be allowed to create any law, including such laws that limit free speech and curtail democratic expression. I would agree that a democracy that doesn't have the power to abolish itself is not truly empowered. From a philosophical perspective, giving up freedom is also a form of freedom and if you take that right from someone you are limiting his freedom. However, having said that, I do hope that the will of the people to remain free will always be sufficiently strong that they will never voluntarily take such a step.
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  #119  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:45
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

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No, I am pushing.

And I have all their posters in my mind, not just that one.
So you want to ban all their posters?
Why not go the whole hog and round up all the voters as well?
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  #120  
Old 19.08.2011, 13:46
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Re: Complain to the SBB about the posters

And now we have an SVP politician attacked by 2 Kosovar brothers and having his throat cut. Have to say, this doesn't do their countrymen any favours at all, and just fuels the SVP's diatribes.
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