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Old 14.09.2011, 17:09
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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We had Cat Curry for dinner last night. It was very nice.
Was it a Moghlai or perhaps a Pussanda?

No, I think it might have been a Katia or a Purryani.

TBH, it wasn't great, it just tasted like chicken
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  #182  
Old 14.09.2011, 19:24
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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We had Cat Curry for dinner last night. It was very nice.
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Was it a Moghlai or perhaps a Pussanda?
No, I think it might have been a Katia or a Purryani.

TBH, it wasn't great, it just tasted like chicken

Oops, my mistake!!! The OH has informed me that it wasn't CatCurry, it was Chat Curry, and that it tasted like chicken because it was chicken.

Sorry about that.



I guess the Kitty-Fluffeh Brigade can stand down now.
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  #183  
Old 14.09.2011, 21:25
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Oops, my mistake!!! The OH has informed me that it wasn't CatCurry, it was Chat Curry, and that it tasted like chicken because it was chicken.

Sorry about that.

I guess the Kitty-Fluffeh Brigade can stand down now.

Where's Ouchboy ?
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  #184  
Old 14.09.2011, 22:03
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Up to a point I guess, take my exanple for instance, I invite my cousin over and she asks me if she can pray I say yes, then she prays and wants to include me and holds a meeting in my place, where she and her children discuss the bible and blah blah blah...that is a bit rude and trying to impose their beliefs IMHO
Yes, quite, that is a bit overpowering ... and imposing.

Try what I do ........... I match (attempt to) their over-exuberance with some exuberance of my own .... "Ok ok, thats enough now .. it`s getting boring .... you can carry on later back at your own place". Or just turn up the music ...... to drown out what is disturbing the peace. Or go outside or somewhere quiet and settle down with a book, and a bag of crisps, till they`re finished and return to earth.

My stance is that if others feel free to indulge their whimsies, then that allows me to do the same.
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  #185  
Old 14.09.2011, 22:26
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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One guy, sweet.
Must be a least two, because the one was recommended by another Jesuit, who's a university professor at London University. Then there must be the guys who taught them.

I'm not a catholic, and it's my first encounter with Jesuit writings, but I'm quite impressed by the intellectual level. The philosopy is pretty rigorous. (Though many may disagree on the axioms).
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  #186  
Old 14.09.2011, 22:44
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Difficult to forget what they (the Jesuits) did to the natives in South America. Having said that, I went to a Conference a few years back given by a Jesuit specialist in Hebrew, about how the Catholic Church manipulated the Bible to their own ends. On this occasion he concentrated on the story of Adam and Eve- and how the 'original' sin was put on Eve's shoulder - or womankind. He explained that in Hebrew there are several words for 'man' as in 'person' - and that the original writings never blamed 'woman'. Fascinating stuff- I wish I had a copy or recording I could refer to.

This article says something similar: by Dr Paul Taylor

Adam and Eve?
So where does that leave us with “Adam” and “Eve”? We have seen that in both the Genesis creation passages and in comments on these in the New Testament, the language is highly symbolic and the main point is the theological lesson. Was it through a man or a woman that sin first came into the world? The fact that Paul’s own materials differ should make us wary of taking the account too literally. Yet, there was no sin before there were any humans – animals (including biological snakes) do not have moral responsibility. Logically, then, there must have been some first sin – a first occasion on which a clearly perceived moral law was broken. In this sense, then, there must have been an “Adam and Eve” – a humanity and life-source – in which this first came.
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  #187  
Old 14.09.2011, 22:46
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Difficult to forget what they did to the natives in South America.
I don't think either of them was alive then.
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  #188  
Old 14.09.2011, 22:50
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Yes, quite, that is a bit overpowering ... and imposing.

Try what I do ........... I match (attempt to) their over-exuberance with some exuberance of my own .... "Ok ok, thats enough now .. it`s getting boring .... you can carry on later back at your own place". Or just turn up the music ...... to drown out what is disturbing the peace. Or go outside or somewhere quiet and settle down with a book, and a bag of crisps, till they`re finished and return to earth.

My stance is that if others feel free to indulge their whimsies, then that allows me to do the same.
My parents-in-law pray 5 times per day. They go into their bedroom and do the prayer, come back out of the bedroom, that's all. In the worst situation, we have to wait for dinner, which isn't a big deal. They don't try to impose it on us and it is all what matters! They wish we would do it but it won't happen and like all parents, they try a bit, once in a while and give up until some day again.

I don't have a problem with it. It is their belief, their need. If they are happy this way and don't force it on us, I don't see why I should not respect their moment.

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  #189  
Old 14.09.2011, 22:54
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Difficult to forget what they did to the natives in South America. Having said that, I went to a Conference a few years back given by a Jesuit specialist in Hebrew, about how the Catholic Church manipulated the Bible to their own ends. On this occasion he concentrated on the story of Adam and Eve- and how the 'original' sin was put on Eve's shoulder - or womankind. He explained that in Hebrew there are several words for 'man' as in 'person' - and that the original writings never blamed 'woman'. Fascinating stuff- I wish I had a copy or recording I could refer to.

Yes, it`s interesting to talk to a really learned person about stuff like this.

I once had a conversation with one of those "real" minister types - who had to study the bible in the original languages ..... Hebrew, Greek and whatever.......

He explained that the word "Hell" was translated from another word (forgotten it) , in the original texts, a place outside of the cities where all the garbage and dead animals were thrown .... it was burned ... and smouldered forever (like most big garbage dumps will smoulder) .... and this was referred to as the place "sinners" would go to.... Not a place down in the bowels of earth where "Mr Satan "presided ... but merely a place mentioned to scare people into behaving themselves, and obeying the laws of the land, (and the Torah?).

...... and not nice like the big blue clear sky where "Heaven" is .......
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  #190  
Old 14.09.2011, 22:58
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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My parents-in-law pray 5 times per day. They go into their bedroom and do the prayer, come back out of the bedroom, that's all. In the worst situation, we have to wait for dinner, which isn't a big deal. They don't try to impose it on us and it is all what matters! They wish we would do it but it won't happen and like all parents, they try a bit, once in a while and give up until some day again.

I don't have a problem with it. It is their belief, their need. If they are happy this way and don't force it on us, I don't see why I should not respect their moment.

That is pleasant to hear.

My one son is married to an Iranian girl, and her parents are like that .... they don`t impose their religiousity on others - they do it privately - which gives them, and others, more dignity.

I was talking about what Angela7 was experiencing .. and I have experienced ... with over-the-top-in-your-face religiousity.
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  #191  
Old 14.09.2011, 22:59
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Absolutely- it is in fact very difficult and even painful for Christians and Muslims to accept that their loved-ones are not following their faith- as for them it is to accept they will not have access to life eternal.
My OH's grand-father converted to islam from Anglicanism, and was shunned forever by his family and community in the UK- then his son gave up the Islam in turn, and was shunned by all as a 'fallen Muslim'. My father gave up his (CAtholicism, for the love of my mother) - and in those days they were never forgiven- neither by their family nor their community. But we still respect the faiths of our family and friends, whatever it is- and would never disturb their prayers or other rules, be it practices, food, festivals, etc. I just wish they could respect our moral framework as just as valid, but this won't happen, sadly. That's OK.
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  #192  
Old 14.09.2011, 23:00
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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...... and not nice like the big blue clear sky where "Heaven" is .......
I've always been slightly perplexed by the 40 virgins thing. When I pop my clogs I won't have the energy for such debauched shenanigans, could I not trade for a pipe and 40 pairs of comfy slippers?
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  #193  
Old 15.09.2011, 00:38
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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I've always been slightly perplexed by the 40 virgins thing. When I pop my clogs I won't have the energy for such debauched shenanigans, could I not trade for a pipe and 40 pairs of comfy slippers?
It's funny you mention that, i wonder wtf heaven is to believers. I think it's one of those things that noone ever really thinks about, but just accepts in their own way. What would slippers or virgins matter to a soul with no body.
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  #194  
Old 15.09.2011, 01:09
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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What would slippers or virgins matter to a soul with no body.
It's like wanking without hands
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  #195  
Old 15.09.2011, 01:13
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Hey, I'm impressed - you managed to get away with all of this entirely unscathed


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This article says something similar: by Dr Paul Taylor

Adam and Eve?
So where does that leave us with “Adam” and “Eve”? We have seen that in both the Genesis creation passages and in comments on these in the New Testament, the language is highly symbolic and the main point is the theological lesson. Was it through a man or a woman that sin first came into the world? The fact that Paul’s own materials differ should make us wary of taking the account too literally. Yet, there was no sin before there were any humans – animals (including biological snakes) do not have moral responsibility. Logically, then, there must have been some first sin – a first occasion on which a clearly perceived moral law was broken. In this sense, then, there must have been an “Adam and Eve” – a humanity and life-source – in which this first came.
I was always a bit puzzled how a god can manage to rustle up an entire heaven and earth from nothing in six days, but when it came to making "Eve" they had to go scrabbling around for spare parts like a Dr Frankenstein.

Is there a Jesuit who has a good explanation for that one?
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  #196  
Old 15.09.2011, 01:27
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Hey, I'm impressed - you managed to get away with all of this entirely unscathed




I was always a bit puzzled how a god can manage to rustle up an entire heaven and earth from nothing in six days, but when it came to making "Eve" they had to go scrabbling around for spare parts like a Dr Frankenstein.

Is there a Jesuit who has a good explanation for that one?
Apparently, sir, you don't seem to know women.

PS: I'm not a Jesuit. Don't even know what the word means. And can't be bothered to google it. Is that jesus in a suit ? Or something to that end ?
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  #197  
Old 15.09.2011, 09:59
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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I was always a bit puzzled how a god can manage to rustle up an entire heaven and earth from nothing in six days, but when it came to making "Eve" they had to go scrabbling around for spare parts like a Dr Frankenstein.

Is there a Jesuit who has a good explanation for that one?
Well, I do keep my urges to burn books and red haired women in the mornings, but I'll give you an answer to that one, actually a completely non-Jesuit one, which keeps in the middle line of believing the Bible as a book of parables.

According to certain lines of thought, Eve was done from a piece of the body of Adam because of all things God created, Adam was the one He loved the most, therefore when He decided to create a companion for him, instead of using mud/nothingness, He used a piece of His most perfect creation (the perfection here being also the imperfection of Adam). In this line of thought, God wanted to create Eve as perfect equal to the beauty of conception of Adam. On other lines of thought, though, this is the perfect excuse to say that women are inferior to men because they were created out of a minor rib… (and according to some other lines of thought, God here was actually some alien race Gu'auld like that cloned humans in the beguinning of time, being the Genesis the perfect proof of that).

Anyway, just in case the Jesuit question thingy was real, a Jesuit is a member of the Order of Jesus, founded by the dear Spanish crazy Ignatius of Loyola in 1547. Their main mission was to become… missionaries of the word of Christ and go forward and spread his faith. They are also the big creators of that thing called Inquisition and the other called Index. It’s the black dressed guys that show up on movies running after witches and vampires alike. Also the guys that most people should blame for a lot of bad stuff associated to the Catholic Church. (On the other hand, they did leave some really beautiful pieces of Architecture in India, Japan, China, Africa, South America, etc.)

I feel like a BBC documentary. I do love my History in the morning with my Earl Grey!
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Old 15.09.2011, 10:10
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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According to certain lines of thought, Eve was done from a piece of the body of Adam because of all things God created, Adam was the one He loved the most, therefore when He decided to create a companion for him, instead of using mud/nothingness, He used a piece of His most perfect creation (the perfection here being also the imperfection of Adam). In this line of thought, God wanted to create Eve as perfect equal to the beauty of conception of Adam. On other lines of thought, though, this is the perfect excuse to say that women are inferior to men because they were created out of a minor rib… (and according to some other lines of thought, God here was actually some alien race Gu'auld like that cloned humans in the beguinning of time, being the Genesis the perfect proof of that).
People believe this kind of stuff? lol
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Old 15.09.2011, 10:44
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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People believe this kind of stuff? lol
People believe in many things. For example, some believe the Universe is infinite. Others believe it's actually finite, but expanding. Some believe we cease to exist once we die, others believe in the soul that gets to carry on without the carnal body. Some believe that starving yourself to death is the best diet, others believe the best diet is to eat 50 burgers per day.

The beauty of human nature is our curiosity and the explanations we come with to the greatest mysteries of life. The job of a good human being is to respect others believes, love them for their difference, share experiences and be tolerant and not go pointing fingers like idiotic teenagers at who is a dumbass because they don't believe their way of life is better that everyone else.

But that's just my own believes. I've been outcasted because of them. But I don't go spreading screaming intolerance on others because they don't believe the same as me. I stick to wearing a t-shirt saying "Pluto is a Planet!"
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Old 15.09.2011, 11:43
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

I agree with everything you said, Helm, including the last bit about Pluto.

*searching online for a cool T-shirt
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