Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:06
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
People believe in many things. For example, some believe the Universe is infinite. Others believe it's actually finite, but expanding. Some believe we cease to exist once we die, others believe in the soul that gets to carry on without the carnal body. Some believe that starving yourself to death is the best diet, others believe the best diet is to eat 50 burgers per day.

The beauty of human nature is our curiosity and the explanations we come with to the greatest mysteries of life. The job of a good human being is to respect others believes, love them for their difference, share experiences and be tolerant and not go pointing fingers like idiotic teenagers at who is a dumbass because they don't believe their way of life is better that everyone else.

But that's just my own believes. I've been outcasted because of them. But I don't go spreading screaming intolerance on others because they don't believe the same as me. I stick to wearing a t-shirt saying "Pluto is a Planet!"
All well and good, and very lovely lovely, but noone really believes it. You don't give jobs to people who just come up to you and say they really believe they can do the job and you should just accept that otherwise you're being intolerant. You don't go to the doctor and hope he's actually gone through medical school rather than some idiot who played doctors and nurses some time and really liked it. You'd have every right to be very upset if you found out that the workman you hired knew nothing about supporting walls, is that intolerant?

People can believe all sorts of daft things, but when those daft things interfer with the world around us, I think there's a very good case for calling them idiots.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank cyrus for this useful post:
  #202  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:18
Helm's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zürich<->St.Gallen
Posts: 2,209
Groaned at 13 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 4,136 Times in 1,371 Posts
Helm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
All well and good, and very lovely lovely, but noone really believes it. You don't give jobs to people who just come up to you and say they really believe they can do the job and you should just accept that otherwise you're being intolerant. You don't go to the doctor and hope he's actually gone through medical school rather than some idiot who played doctors and nurses some time and really liked it. You'd have every right to be very upset if you found out that the workman you hired knew nothing about supporting walls, is that intolerant?

People can believe all sorts of daft things, but when those daft things interfer with the world around us, I think there's a very good case for calling them idiots.


First I was Then I was Then I went back to

I am not totally sure that believing in the credentials of a doctor has anything to do with Life, the Universe and Everything. Even homeopathy "doctors" need a proof of study and capacity to exercise their "knowledge".

Or is this a not so subtle try to completely twist the topic in question to provoke some more anger and some more controversy?


In that case, in the words of Lucy, The doctor is out.
__________________

Fighting for Pluto's liberation from the Dwarf League since 2006 @(°.°)=@)x.X)' ' '
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Helm for this useful post:
  #203  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:25
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post


First I was Then I was Then I went back to

I am not totally sure that believing in the credentials of a doctor has anything to do with Life, the Universe and Everything. Even homeopathy "doctors" need a proof of study and capacity to exercise their "knowledge".

Or is this a not so subtle try to completely twist the topic in question to provoke some more anger and some more controversy?


In that case, in the words of Lucy, The doctor is out.
No, it's just the whole we should let people believe whatever they want to believe and that's ok. It's something we say, but when it comes down to things that affect our lives, we're all amazingly intolerant, and quite rightly so.

Sure we can speculate about things we don't know, I accept that, but one your examples was dieting, how tolerant should we be of people who prescribe dangerous dieting techniques based on some bloody spiritual qualification or of a revelation they had in a dream?
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:25
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,729
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,942 Times in 3,654 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
You don't go to the doctor and hope he's actually gone through medical school rather than some idiot who played doctors and nurses some time and really liked it.
I do. I've never looked at a doctor's qualifications. I've just turned up, been treated and gone home.

I guess do have faith.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #205  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:31
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
All well and good, and very lovely lovely, but noone really believes it. You don't give jobs to people who just come up to you and say they really believe they can do the job and you should just accept that otherwise you're being intolerant. You don't go to the doctor and hope he's actually gone through medical school rather than some idiot who played doctors and nurses some time and really liked it. You'd have every right to be very upset if you found out that the workman you hired knew nothing about supporting walls, is that intolerant?
It is interesting when you think about the concept of faith. It's only seen as a virtue when dealing with religion. In no other aspect of our lives do we see faith without evidence as something positive or a personality trait of a balanced individual. We know to not blindly trust 100% people who are in front of us and teach our kids not to. So it's only natural that we should trust people 2000 years ago who wrote a book. No chance of them being full of it, right? But most of us are indoctrinated from birth to have a skepticism blind spot in this particular area or to be really really tolerant, sensitive, and understanding of those that do. It's like a rampant form of mental illness that is so ingrained in our society that no one thinks of it that way anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:33
Helm's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zürich<->St.Gallen
Posts: 2,209
Groaned at 13 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 4,136 Times in 1,371 Posts
Helm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
Sure we can speculate about things we don't know, I accept that, but one your examples was dieting, how tolerant should we be of people who prescribe dangerous dieting techniques based on some bloody spiritual qualification or of a revelation they had in a dream?
Well, I think dieting is a hot-potato topic like religion. I can't really hold it for more than 5 seconds till I get burnt.

When I was younger and even more hot-headed than today, I used to try to convince/convert my school colleagues that their Cosmopolitan diet was killing them, and that most men like to grab something fluffy and not bone, and they should value themselves more than the idea of being a bibelot with the sole purpose of attracting the opposite sex. But I was a teenie then (I was also screaming save the whales and the Amazon Forest on the streets).

Then I grew up, learnt to never open a Cosmopolitan for my own mental health, and let the other girls starve themselves to death. I respect their suicide pact, but I still secretly try to show them the other colours of life by eating a juicy, English, bloody steak in front of them. They made a life choice, I find wrong, but I don’t go shuffling pasta down their throats with a gun point.



Ok… I confess… those juicy bloody gorgeously tempered with salt beef steaks are a bit sadist of me. But I never said I was perfect…
__________________

Fighting for Pluto's liberation from the Dwarf League since 2006 @(°.°)=@)x.X)' ' '
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Helm for this useful post:
  #207  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:33
Ouchboy's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 3,345
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,739 Times in 2,182 Posts
Ouchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
All well and good, and very lovely lovely, but noone really believes it. You don't give jobs to people who just come up to you and say they really believe they can do the job and you should just accept that otherwise you're being intolerant. You don't go to the doctor and hope he's actually gone through medical school rather than some idiot who played doctors and nurses some time and really liked it. You'd have every right to be very upset if you found out that the workman you hired knew nothing about supporting walls, is that intolerant?

People can believe all sorts of daft things, but when those daft things interfer with the world around us, I think there's a very good case for calling them idiots.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post:
  #208  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:43
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
I do. I've never looked at a doctor's qualifications. I've just turned up, been treated and gone home.

I guess do have faith.
Weeeell, apparently it makes you an idiot!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #209  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:50
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
I do. I've never looked at a doctor's qualifications. I've just turned up, been treated and gone home.

I guess do have faith.
Yes, but the fact that he's in a hospital, is recognized by the colleagues around him, etc. makes it that trusting him seems like a perfectly reasonable course of action. There's a clear system of checks and balances in place. It's not perfect, but we've spent centuries refining it and we've got it down pretty well.

Guys that talk to people about the afterlife and the infinite tend to have qualifications that are flimsy, to say the least. I don't know, you don't know, and I seriously doubt that people 2000 years ago did either.
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:53
Sagitta's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 706
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 1,174 Times in 489 Posts
Sagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
It is interesting when you think about the concept of faith. It's only seen as a virtue when dealing with religion. In no other aspect of our lives do we see faith without evidence as something positive or a personality trait of a balanced individual. We know to not blindly trust 100% people who are in front of us and teach our kids not to. So it's only natural that we should trust people 2000 years ago who wrote a book. No chance of them being full of it, right? But most of us are indoctrinated from birth to have a skepticism blind spot in this particular area or to be really really tolerant, sensitive, and understanding of those that do. It's like a rampant form of mental illness that is so ingrained in our society that no one thinks of it that way anymore.
Well, in psychotherapy for example both the therapist and the patient always need to have faith that positive change will occur. This faith and hope is an integral part of successful therapy.


Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:57
Jordan Baker's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: In transit
Posts: 138
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 136 Times in 63 Posts
Jordan Baker has a reputation beyond reputeJordan Baker has a reputation beyond reputeJordan Baker has a reputation beyond reputeJordan Baker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Save me Jebus! This is a vicious circle.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Jordan Baker for this useful post:
  #212  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:59
mimi1981's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, previously Basel
Posts: 3,773
Groaned at 21 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 5,792 Times in 2,173 Posts
mimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but the fact that he's in a hospital, is recognized by the colleagues around him, etc. makes it that trusting him seems like a perfectly reasonable course of action. There's a clear system of checks and balances in place. It's not perfect, but we've spent centuries refining it and we've got it down pretty well.

Guys that talk to people about the afterlife and the infinite tend to have qualifications that are flimsy, to say the least. I don't know, you don't know, and I seriously doubt that people 2000 years ago did either.

My doctor has her own office and it's just her and her secretary.

*makes note to look for certificates next time I visit*
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 15.09.2011, 12:02
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
Well, in psychotherapy for example both the therapist and the patient always need to have faith that positive change will occur. This faith and hope is an integral part of successful therapy.
Well, yes, you can't get improvement in any domain unless you want for it to happen. To feel better, you have to want to feel better and believe that you can. To learn a language, you have to believe that you can, it's a major aspect of motivation. To believe that people 2000 years ago had a better understanding of the infinite, you have to wan.... Oh.

The difference is, we know depressives can get better and people not previously speaking a language learning to is possible because we constantly see it happen and have people qualified to teach and guide us through these areas. The "experts" in the infinite seem to only have mastered the art of convincing people to keep their BS detectors at bay.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Russkov for this useful post:
  #214  
Old 15.09.2011, 12:24
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 209
Groaned at 26 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 171 Times in 67 Posts
sun&rain is considered knowledgeablesun&rain is considered knowledgeablesun&rain is considered knowledgeable
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
People believe in many things. For example, some believe the Universe is infinite. Others believe it's actually finite, but expanding. Some believe we cease to exist once we die, others believe in the soul that gets to carry on without the carnal body.

The beauty of human nature is our curiosity and the explanations we come with to the greatest mysteries of life. The job of a good human being is to respect others believes, love them for their difference, share experiences and be tolerant and not go pointing fingers like idiotic teenagers at who is a dumbass because they don't believe their way of life is better that everyone else.

But that's just my own believes. I've been outcasted because of them. But I don't go spreading screaming intolerance on others because they don't believe the same as me. I stick to wearing a t-shirt saying "Pluto is a Planet!"
I am a bad human being. Like I said I tolerate your right to have a belief but I will respect the actual belief on the basis of it's merit.
Quote:
Some believe that starving yourself to death is the best diet, others believe the best diet is to eat 50 burgers per day.
A visual inspection combined with some medical tests will put to rest what is better. People can believe whatever they want I don't care nor am I interested in wasting my time on such people in real life.
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 15.09.2011, 12:37
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
I am a bad human being. Like I said I tolerate your right to have a belief but I will respect the actual belief on the basis of it's merit.
A visual inspection combined with some medical tests will put to rest what is better. People can believe whatever they want I don't care nor am I interested in wasting my time on such people in real life.
I am not sure YOU and TOLERATE can come together in a same sentence....

I have friends from all the religions (even the anti-religion religion ) and we are completely fine and respectful of each other's belief or non-belief or belief of non-believing....

THAT is tolerance. To be able to accept them in your life and not judge them!
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #216  
Old 15.09.2011, 12:43
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 209
Groaned at 26 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 171 Times in 67 Posts
sun&rain is considered knowledgeablesun&rain is considered knowledgeablesun&rain is considered knowledgeable
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
I am not sure YOU and TOLERATE can come together in a same sentence....

I have friends from all the religions (even the anti-religion religion ) and we are completely fine and respectful of each other's belief or non-belief or belief of non-believing....
I have friends too from various faith but we accept each others choices. People who don't give up and keep trying to convert me are the type I was talking about.

Quote:
THAT is tolerance. To be able to accept them in your life and not judge them!
Every human judges every other human irrespective of what they might say

Edit-
Quote:
View Post
I am not sure YOU and TOLERATE can come together in a same sentence....
Did you just judge me?
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 15.09.2011, 12:47
Sagitta's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 706
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 1,174 Times in 489 Posts
Sagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post

Every human judges every other human irrespective of what they might say
I respectfully disagree.

I think the OP’s original question was forgotten a long time ago.
Now we are just sitting in our opposite trenches: it’s a dead end.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Sagitta for this useful post:
  #218  
Old 15.09.2011, 12:49
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 209
Groaned at 26 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 171 Times in 67 Posts
sun&rain is considered knowledgeablesun&rain is considered knowledgeablesun&rain is considered knowledgeable
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
I respectfully disagree.

I think the OP’s original question was forgotten a long time ago.
Now we are just sitting in our opposite trenches: it’s a dead end.
Can I respectfully call you a liar? I definitely judge people and even myself.
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 15.09.2011, 12:50
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
Edit-


Did you just judge me?
No I am just saying that I am not sure if we can put them together in the same sentence.



If someone is trying to convince me to join their faith, yes, on this, I won't be around them. I am not a fan of this kind of attitude. Each their own and don't try to change me. BUTSometimes, sacrifices are made to please someone for a greater plan. And I was fine with that. I am going to heaven anyway (apparently).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #220  
Old 15.09.2011, 12:53
Sagitta's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 706
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 1,174 Times in 489 Posts
Sagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Quote:
View Post
Can I respectfully call you a liar? I definitely judge people and even myself.
I promised myself to go off this thread...

OK, I am often guilty of judging others, but this is not my ideal in life. I've met a number of people on my path who were wise and who didn't judge - believe it or not. I'd like to take a leaf out of their book.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
capitalism, commerce, fundamentalism, illiberalism, righteous wrath




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is religion the cause of all evil? Lob General off-topic 75 12.12.2011 21:18
Ok who is the idiot now, the scammer or the person who actually falls for it? gata General off-topic 3 11.07.2011 22:27
The British-Swiss Chamber of Commerce 'Stammtisch' FionaR Commercial events 0 02.02.2011 17:49
The British-Swiss Chamber of Commerce 'Stammtisch' FionaR Commercial events 1 12.01.2011 14:09
Religion: The Out-Takes (Director's Cut) ... or, Yay! Another religion thread! Nil General off-topic 95 15.11.2010 21:49


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0