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Old 13.09.2011, 11:35
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Sorry. Hang on whilst I try and drag myself out of the gutter
Forget the gutter. Just send me your phone number
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  #62  
Old 13.09.2011, 11:38
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Forget the gutter. Just send me your phone number
An example of reading between the lines. (Well, actually it's a pretty direct answer to an advertisement, if you ask me)
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Old 13.09.2011, 11:40
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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So if an EF member put this ad in the marketplace, I assume only serious replies would be posted:

"Wanted, 17 year old prositiute for a few nights in Zurich"
I wouldn't assume only serious replies if somebody posted "For Sale: 2008 Ford Focus" the EF Marketplace.

But to answer your question, if I saw that ad I'd probably raise an eyebrow, but wouldn't feel the need to comment.

If it's legal then who am I to impose my morals on somebody else?


As to the original post. A great writer once wrote
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I'm an atheist. I don't mock other people's beliefs though. In fact I tend to find proselytising athiests far more offensive and bad mannered than most other religious recruiters.

Odd that.
His viewpoint hasn't changed.
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Old 13.09.2011, 11:44
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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If it's legal then who am I to impose my morals on somebody else?
Then we're right back to kosher chocolate and circumcision I guess.
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Old 13.09.2011, 11:45
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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An example of reading between the lines. (Well, actually it's a pretty direct answer to an advertisement, if you ask me)

Have I just been called a prostitute???


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If it's legal then who am I to impose my morals on somebody else?

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Old 13.09.2011, 11:47
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Then we're right back to kosher chocolate and circumcision I guess.
Yeah. I thought that was the point.
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Old 13.09.2011, 11:49
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Is that a camel or a kangaroo?

Either way it's wearing a necklace. That's not right
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Old 13.09.2011, 11:51
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Is that a camel or a kangaroo?

Either way it's wearing a necklace. That's not right
Depends on your religion. Some call it a Kangamel and others a Camelroo.

Does it offend you?
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Old 13.09.2011, 11:53
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Then we're right back to kosher chocolate and circumcision I guess.
Ok, maybe I finally reached that point in life where brain cells start to die at scarying speed, but what does kosher chocolate and circumcision have to do with each other, other than being a hot topic only for those not raised in a Jewish community?

It's like trying to compare, well, I don't know, the lobster I had for lunch and the Chinese politic on milk.

I'm with DB on this. I know that for a lot of people lighting some torches and burning up on some topics about religion might be fun and all, but if a poor bastard is looking for a specific food - because he doesn't like cow, his religion forbids him to eat pig, he's allergic to lactose, he doesn't like the Swiss version - why go on a village rampage after the poor guy? He just wants to eat. We all like to eat some tasty morcels once and a while...
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Old 13.09.2011, 11:56
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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So if an EF member put this ad in the marketplace, I assume only serious replies would be posted:

"Wanted, 17 year old prositiute for a few nights in Zurich"

Just because something is legal here, offering it, taxing it, etc. it still could be mighty offensive to a high percent of the EF community and presumably would attract a boatload of unwanted comments.
I thought that under-18's were ILLEGAL in Zurich?

Tom
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Old 13.09.2011, 11:58
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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I thought that under-18's were ILLEGAL in Zurich?

Tom
It's still 16, though there was some talking about moving it up to 18.

http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/311_0/a187.html

(or at least that is what I understood from the news and the article, but my German is not lawful good)
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Old 13.09.2011, 11:59
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Yeah. I thought that was the point.
So maybe the EF should have this disclaimer--

We are not a politically correct forum.

We do not separate church from state.

There is no such thing as religious freedom.

We allow age discrimation.

We allow free market capitalism (to an extent)

We follow laws as they exist and are applied in CH.

And we do not flush our toilets past 10 pm, ever.
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Old 13.09.2011, 12:04
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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It's still 16, though there was some talking about moving it up to 18.

http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/311_0/a187.html

(or at least that is what I understood from the news and the article, but my German is not lawful good)
Yes, on a federal level, but I thought that Geneva and Zurich had upped it to 18 (on a city or cantonal level)?

Tom
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Old 13.09.2011, 12:07
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Yes, on a federal level, but I thought that Geneva and Zurich had upped it to 18 (on a city or cantonal level)?

Tom
As far as I understood they put/wanted to put it up for votes, but I believe the law is not yet valid? Not totally sure. Sorry It's not something I need to keep a track on, so I didn't pay attention to the news
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Old 13.09.2011, 12:15
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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We are not a politically correct forum.
If that means that people aren't attacked for briefly implying their beliefs then that's fine by me.

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We do not separate church from state.
This is EF. I'm not sure it's reached sovereign status.

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There is no such thing as religious freedom.
Unless I missed an earlier post of yours, then I thought that this is the point of this thread. People are free to believe what they want. And eat what they want. And choose what bit of their (or their child's) body they want to keep - be it in its natural place or in a jar on the mantlepiece.

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We allow age discrimation.

We allow free market capitalism (to an extent)

We follow laws as they exist and are applied in CH.

And we do not flush our toilets past 10 pm, ever.
Well, that's what you'd expect from any decent, law abiding society.
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  #76  
Old 13.09.2011, 12:17
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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It's really not that bad, and religion has the luxury of having plenty of people around to defend it. Posters who hijack harmless religious threads are usually shunned and have poor rep.

Now make a similarly harmless "just looking for info/to buy something" thread about, say, astrology or homeopathy and watch well established posters (non-religious and religious alike) troll it to no end, reminding the OP that their area of interest is an illogical bunch of baloney.

There is general intolerance and ridicule (by everyone) towards things people consider illogical. Religion still gets off pretty easy, IMO.
This thread would be a case in point.
It’s just me but I find the posts in which people profess their religious or spiritual beliefs very illuminating and interesting. Atheism is also a kind of belief, methinks.
I want to learn about other people’s points of view: e.g. why does kosher chocolate rub them up the wrong way? It’s food for thought for me, so I would not censor such posters. On the contrary, let them have their say.
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Old 13.09.2011, 12:41
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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It’s food for thought for me.

I like what you did there
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  #78  
Old 13.09.2011, 12:47
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Interesting.

I guess some people are so emotionally invested, that they need to point out other people's perceived flaws.

Ignore the hate, enjoy the bump and move on, there will always be someone who will rage about how you live your life!

Personally i like the chance of extrospective, as it just might make my life better. I mean, once in a while the argument for this or that, is valid enough to change my way of life and thus enriching it further!

Question your conviction with an open mind and it will make you stronger.
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Old 13.09.2011, 12:53
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

I expressed a lack of belief in a higher being and stopped caring about the height of my hemlines, if the cut of my hair was rebellious, censoring my reading material, limiting my television and movie viewing, censoring my thoughts and feeling guilty for not having faith or 'knowing with my entire being that a god cares for and loves me'.

I live according to my moral code and conscience and not one enforced by a religious group.

I was excommunicated and shunned. All of my previous acquaintances and family are not allowed to talk to me (other than my immediate family of whom all but 2 severely limit contact). Want to know what a true black sheep looks like? *puts up hand*

I have every reason to be angry and filled with rage at everything that pertains to be religious. I have every right to yell my beliefs or lack thereof to all. Religion breaks up families (it has mine).**

BUT...

I'm not. It's taken me 6 years to get to this place but I'm happy. Live and let live. You can believe anything you wish, I don't care if you want donuts blessed by the flying spaghetti monster or to sleep with your feet facing the nearest Krispy Kreme. I'm happy if it brings you happiness and peace. But I have every right to have differing beliefs to you. I don't and won't throw them in your face or try to bible or Krispy Kreme menu bash you into submission. I won't stop being your friend if you don't believe the same things as me. I will abide by your decision to avoid my toxic presence so that you can comfortably walk your chosen path and I expect people to allow me to walk a path of my choosing. (Caveat: Unless your beliefs harm. Then I reserve the right to go to the law and ask them to do something about it.) In some things we need to agree to disagree. For the sake of friendships, family relationship and peace.

Can't we all just agree to disagree?

**I'm not saying I'm not hurt. But that's a whole other kettle of fish.
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Old 13.09.2011, 13:02
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

You know, I'm not that fussed about tolerance. I don't care if you tolerate my beliefs or not.

I'm just curious as to what it is about kosher chocolate, islam-friendly hotels and sabbath-observing prayer groups that arouses people's ire so.

I can understand the controversy over halal butchery and circumcision - which is why I quite deliberately didn't mention them in the initial post. But chocolate? Hotel rooms? What could anybody find offensive about them?

I simply don't buy the argument that 'religion killed lots of people, so all manifestations of religion are bad'. Millions upon millions of people observe their religious practices every day without killing anyone. If they want to stay in a hotel with fellow believers or eat a special kind of biscuit or attend a meeting of like-minded souls, why on earth shouldn't they?

Maybe I'm a bit thick, but I just don't understand the anger that seems to pour out in response to such requests for information.

Do religious people offend you that much?
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