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  #101  
Old 13.09.2011, 13:49
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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By choosing to unilaterally mock all religion, you yourself are intolerant. How then are you not the hypocrite that you describe, given that you claim you are tolerant?
Did you not read my post or just don't understand?
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  #102  
Old 13.09.2011, 13:55
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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By choosing to unilaterally mock all religion, you yourself are intolerant. How then are you not the hypocrite that you describe, given that you claim you are tolerant?


Not that I think he/she was being intolerant in the post, but to be honest....why do we have to tolerate something that causes more problems than solutions?
(I'm talking about religions, not kosher chocolate--if people want to eat it, who cares? Doesn't affect non-religious people in any way...)


FFS, I can be intolerant of somebody's belief that the earth is flat (as an example), especially if this belief impedes my research into the Earth's orbit around the sun. Attacking a belief isn't the same as attacking a person, and it shouldn't be labeled as ''intolerant'', especially if we know that ''the Earth is not flat''.
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  #103  
Old 13.09.2011, 13:56
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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It doesn't fit, it has to be 4 letters across Anyway I'll go with Tory for now.
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  #104  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:04
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Did you not read my post or just don't understand?
Understand what exactly? you just erected a number of strawmen arguments to prove your point.
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  #105  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:17
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Did you not read my post or just don't understand?
I did not see your last post prior to replying to the previous one, however it does not change my reply.

I don't understand how you can dismiss religion wholly as nonsense yet claim to be tolerant. How are you being tolerant by calling religion as a whole BS?

There are Christians who are not intolerant of gays, and there are Muslims who are not intolerant of strong women. Why mock religion as a whole, as you say you do, when each individual person can embrace different elements, morals, and values?

Isn't tolerance the accommodation of beliefs contrary to one's own, anyway?
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  #106  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:18
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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It doesn't fit, it has to be 4 letters across
religion-commerce-ire-illiberal-idiot-pp.jpg

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  #107  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:22
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Every few weeks, some hapless soul starts a thread on the English Forum seeking islamic accommodation, kosher chocolate, a church which observes the Saturday sabbath or some other niche product of a religious nature.
Can I say the following:
  • I have no idea where to find Kosher choccy so therefore a) would not reply with "I don't know" and b) would not lay into the OP for asking the question. I might Google if I was a Googling service for questions
  • Religion is a cult. All of them. How else do you get a bunch of people assembling at a place of worship to nod, sing, chant, kneel and do other things? But! It's their choice so again, IDGAS. I think that covers most of everything else

I do remember a diagram on the subject of flat-sharing with a stranger in a one-room apartment but would say that was highlighting the ridiculousness of the situation and not creed, colour nor religion.

One thing I do bet is that the potty mouths you find in this virtual universe are probably meek mofos in the real world, hence their tirades against all who do not match their alter-egos expectations of virtuosity.

If you don't agree with me, prepare for my tired tirade!
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  #108  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:27
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Religion is a cult. All of them. How else do you get a bunch of people assembling at a place of worship to nod, sing, chant, kneel and do other things?


+

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  #109  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:28
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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If you don't agree with me, prepare for my tired tirade!
I tend to agree, but can we have the tirade anyway?
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  #110  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:33
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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I can't see how atheists can claim to be much better: the top two killers in history are: Mao (40million) and Stalin (20 million) both of whom were were communists, i.e. atheists.
Surely Mosquitos helped kill more than those two put together and on the documentaries I've seen, they look like they pary as they exchange body fluids. Anyway the Christians would have it that all are God's creatures atheist or not.
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Old 13.09.2011, 14:34
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Sorry I meant pray
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  #112  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:35
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Surely Mosquitos helped kill more than those two put together and on the documentaries I've seen, they look like they pary as they exchange body fluids. Anyway the Christians would have it that all are God's creatures atheist or not.
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Sorry I meant pray

so... watcha selling, eh?
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  #113  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:39
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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  • Religion is a cult. All of them. How else do you get a bunch of people assembling at a place of worship to nod, sing, chant, kneel and do other things? But! It's their choice so again, IDGAS. I think that covers most of everything else
If your sentence doesn't apply to people doing similar things yet not in a place of worship, such as those suggested by Ouchboy above, what you are effectively saying is: all religions are cults because they meet in a place of worship. Which is the same as saying all religions are cults because they are religions.

(and to add some more to Ouchboy's list: families, orchestras, ballet school,...)
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  #114  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:43
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

Does not eating pork make me a vegetarian?

I tolerate people who listen to house music, I tolerate people who chose to drive french cars (seriously, how can you buy a french car???) I tolerate people of different sexual orientation, I tolerate grumpy old people who condemn my entire generation wholesale, I tolerate people with different believes. My best friend has very strong faith and it doesn't pose a problem to our friendship.
But I can't tolerate religion as an institution that tells its followers to not tolerate people of other believes or sexual orientation or whatever.
My intolerance is mainly focused on Christianity and Islam, because I have to read about their BS all the time.
Again, I distinguish between faith and religion. Very different thing.
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  #115  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:45
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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[/LIST] If your sentence doesn't apply to people doing similar things yet not in a place of worship, such as those suggested by Ouchboy above, what you are effectively saying is: all religions are cults because they meet in a place of worship. Which is the same as saying all religions are cults because they are religions.

(and to add some more to Ouchboy's list: families, orchestras, ballet school,...)
they are all cults too.

I suggest you round on the next ballet school where-art-thou thread posted to EF with appropriate venom
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  #116  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:45
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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[/LIST] If your sentence doesn't apply to people doing similar things yet not in a place of worship, such as those suggested by Ouchboy above, what you are effectively saying is: all religions are cults because they meet in a place of worship. Which is the same as saying all religions are cults because they are religions.

(and to add some more to Ouchboy's list: families, orchestras, ballet school,...)
I think nature abhors vacuum, that’s why people will always find some objects of cult.
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  #117  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:47
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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Not that I think he/she was being intolerant in the post, but to be honest....why do we have to tolerate something that causes more problems than solutions?
(I'm talking about religions, not kosher chocolate--if people want to eat it, who cares? Doesn't affect non-religious people in any way...)


FFS, I can be intolerant of somebody's belief that the earth is flat (as an example), especially if this belief impedes my research into the Earth's orbit around the sun. Attacking a belief isn't the same as attacking a person, and it shouldn't be labeled as ''intolerant'', especially if we know that ''the Earth is not flat''.
Anyone is entitled to tolerate whatever they wish. I was merely pointing out that Manny initially indicated his/her distaste for hypocrites, described him/herself as tolerant, then finished by saying that he/she chooses to mock all religion rather than tolerating it because it is "bollocks." To me, that points to Manny being a hypocrite him/herself.

Applying what Manny said to your flat earth example would equate to you mocking science as a whole, rather than being merely intolerant of one example of warped scientific belief.

Last edited by Textoch; 13.09.2011 at 15:37. Reason: Typo
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  #118  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:48
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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I don't understand how you can dismiss religion wholly as nonsense yet claim to be tolerant. How are you being tolerant by calling religion as a whole BS?

There are Christians who are not intolerant of gays, and there are Muslims who are not intolerant of strong women. Why mock religion as a whole, as you say you do, when each individual person can embrace different elements, morals, and values?

Isn't tolerance the accommodation of beliefs contrary to one's own, anyway?
You can call religion as a whole BS without being intolerant of people who follow it. It's like you said, tolerating beliefs that are contrary to one's own. I'm not preventing you from believing what you believe, I just think it's a delusion and slightly silly. That may offend some people, but worry not, because as long as you're in one of the major religious groups of the world, you have an army of people who share your beliefs and will defend you to the end.

The same can't be said for astrologists, homeopathists, UFO enthousiasts, ghost hunters, etc. You can make fun of them to no end. They get offended? Laugh some more! If only there were discrimination laws and people getting deeply upset (sometimes to the point of violence) on their behalf...
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  #119  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:54
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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...Speaking of tolerance, why it is so hard for people just to respect religions of others?
Because they're just wrong . (Either the wrong religion, or any religion is wrong, take your pick).

You see a similar reaction in politics, quite often.

I think it is perfectly natural to think that your viewpoint and understanding of the world, and how to relate to it, is better than anyone else's. It's obvious really. If I thought your religion (or politics) was better than mine, I'd follow that instead. I guess it's just being British (and therefore naturally superior) that makes me content to sit in the smugness of knowing I'm right and you're all wrong, without feel the need to bash you over the head with it. Or get upset if you think I'm wrong.

I do find the mockery of other's beliefs a bit shallow. If the beliefs are that stupid, pointing the obvious out just makes you a party to that stupidity. And sound a bit sneery and intolerant. People are daft. Live with it.
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  #120  
Old 13.09.2011, 14:56
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Re: Religion, commerce and the ire of the illiberal idiot.

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My intolerance is mainly focused on Christianity and Islam, because I have to read about their BS all the time.
Again, I distinguish between faith and religion. Very different thing.
When I see this kind of tirade, I have to ask:

Have you ever went to a Catholic mass?

A lot of people with these tirades will answer with "no, but I am not interested because the catholic church is to be blamed for millions of deaths through out history".

I'd like to invite you to come with me to the church. In fact, I'd like to have a time machine to take you back to the mass I had in Leipzig, Germany, during the New Year, which was the last I attended to (basically because of the language barrier here in Switzerland). A Catholic mass celebrated on a Protestant church. After the regular automatic preying, comes the word of the priest which can be resumed to this:

The priest asked us to join him in spreading the peace and the love for your neighbour. To think about the people, both Christian and Muslims, that died in an attack in Egypt. To be proud of the Muslim brothers that formed a protection cord to let the Coptic Christians attend their mass. To spread the love and peace and think about the Buddist monks being surpressed in Tibet. Because we should help those in need, even if they believe in another God, because being a Christian is loving the person next to you.

I will repeat: this was a catholic mass, celebrated on a Lutheran church which, a couple of hundred years ago, decided the catholics were dangerous heretics. The Lutherans were celebrating on a catholic church for the same reason: to show we are not different to each other, and religious intolerance is wrong. It's a small step, but a step.


People who keep spanking the religion horse because everyone who is from a certain religion are as intolerant and narrow minded as religious radicals. To a lot of religious people, those that don't show up on TV because they are not ACTION NEWS enough, believe in religion as a sharing of love, peace, understanding, tolerance, help. Exactly the oposite that a lot believe to be religion.

If anyone would like to come to a mass with me, to get to know how religion has changed since the Middle Ages, drop me a line.
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