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  #81  
Old 17.09.2011, 14:19
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

I think the title of the thread says it all really. Why are you so keen to come to a country that apparently, as you have said, doesn't want you here.

I would be interested to know exactly what you mean by "Switzerland will regret it"?
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  #82  
Old 17.09.2011, 14:21
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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I would be interested to know exactly what you mean by "Switzerland will regret it"?
i'd advise staying away from large gatherings and public areas close to the border
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  #83  
Old 17.09.2011, 14:22
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

Just because I know everyone wants to enjoy his posts:

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I apologize if someone felt (virtually) spitted at...but I can assure you that this is 1/10 of what English-speaking immigrants have done to me, in my professional and private (real) life, in various part of Europe, in the last 7 years...

So this is my little revenge. I've also lived in France for 2 years at some point...guess what?
People from England where the one that complained the most about the place, not contributing in any constructive way, and moaning moaning moaning...no wonder that the locals hated them.

In fact when I'm on a train or an airport, and see people coming from English-speaking countries having troubles...I don't help them, since they all feel so intelligent and superior to the rest of the world.
I still think it's not fair that... - Employer: "Hey John/Alicia, do you want to move to Switzerland! Our Swiss office DESPERATELY needs YOU NOW!!!! - John/Alicia: "
Uhm, let me think deeply and throughly, ...I need a few seconds...Swiss is that country somewhere in Europe (maybe the one close to Denmark and Norway, where IKEA comes from), full of cows and money, right? Yes, why not! Let's go, even if I have no clue about the country!

The world is in my hands, I can do whatever I want, there are no limits, bla bla.. And apart from a few exceptions, I doubt that importing people from the other side of the world, without clue or willingness to adapt, just because of their "desperately needed skills", is really the right think to do on the long-term.

Better that the economy grows less, but in a more orderly way...and train the locals in those ";desperately needed skills".

I think in the future, not only in Switzerland but in all European countries, immigrants will be required to integrate, rather than live in some "expat bubble", no matter what "desperately needed skills"; they might have...but you will have probably escaped to Singapore in the meantime.

I have no problem with the fact that there aren't enough parties in Swiss cities, I actually like it...it all comes down to giving away some of the "personal freedoms/irresponsibilities" that you are used to in many other countries, to have a more sustainable, more stable, and fairer society.

It's a matter of mentality...Game over. P.S. There seems to be some problems in the conversion of the carriage returns from a Unix text file. Frankly I cannot be bothered...
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  #84  
Old 17.09.2011, 14:26
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

Is that a Private Message sent to you ?
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  #85  
Old 17.09.2011, 14:29
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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Is that a Private Message sent to you ?
No I just adjusted OP's post to a more readable one
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  #86  
Old 17.09.2011, 14:30
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

Hi Marco
Your English is pretty good, have you thought about looking for work in London.
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Old 17.09.2011, 14:48
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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.Switzerland will regret this.
Some how... I think not
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  #88  
Old 17.09.2011, 14:54
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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Hi Marco
Your English is pretty good, have you thought about looking for work in London.
I doubt he'd go for that.
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Old 17.09.2011, 16:05
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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Hi Marco
Your English is pretty good, have you thought about looking for work in London.
Your joking aren't you? If he thinks we do nothing but moan abroad, what's he going to think when he arrives in the UK?
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  #90  
Old 17.09.2011, 16:26
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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If he thinks we do nothing but moan abroad, what's he going to think when he arrives in the UK?
Naaaah, London offers a whole universe of employment opportunities for a burger-flipper-with-attitude like our new friend MurkyTozzer


Attachment 32539

Last edited by weejeem; 14.10.2011 at 15:03.
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  #91  
Old 17.09.2011, 16:32
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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And then you did the same text and format. Why can't you use the space bar?
Sorrymylaptopkeybordisbroken...
Realy, I should bring it to the lab....
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  #92  
Old 17.09.2011, 16:46
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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I think the title of the thread says it all really. Why are you so keen to come to a country that apparently, as you have said, doesn't want you here.

I would be interested to know exactly what you mean by "Switzerland will regret it"?
I imagine he meant that the Swiss (and, by extension, its whinging expats) will be crying in their fondue over the fantastic employee that they let slip through their fingers.
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  #93  
Old 17.09.2011, 16:59
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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if the dead horse kicking continues, I will have to close it.
You changed your mind about this bit?
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  #94  
Old 17.09.2011, 17:16
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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Typical "English-speaking immigrant" attitude: "I'm better than you, I'm so good, you have failed, you are not worth a penny, kill yourself, etc...". If you are so good, and your countries are so much filled of people like you...why are the US, the UK and Ireland failed countries (economically and socially), and you had to escape from them?

You would not last 5 minutes in Nordic countries, with your attitude...thanks to the Jante Law.
if you're looking for sympathy, the sure place to find it is in an ENGLISH dictionary, - somewhere between sh*t and syphillis !
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  #95  
Old 17.09.2011, 17:29
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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...but I can assure you that this is 1/10 of what "English-speaking immigrants" have done to me, in my professional and private (real) life, in various part of Europe, in the last 7 years...So this is my little revenge.
So if I understand correctly, this thread and your refusal to help English-speaking travelers when they are lost or need help is your way of sticking it to all the English-speaking immigrants in Switzerland since they are collectively responsible for screwing up both your professional and personal life during the last seven years?

And you wonder why no one will hire you?

Methinks you need a (non-English-speaking) therapist.
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  #96  
Old 17.09.2011, 17:40
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

It's funny, this thread makes me think of a discussion we had a work this week : the bottom line was that people who immigrated to Switzerland in the 60s, mainly southern Europeans (italians, portuguese, spaniards) were really patronised compared to today's immigrants (mainly the so-called "english speaking people").
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Old 17.09.2011, 19:34
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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Typical "English-speaking immigrant" attitude: "I'm better than you, I'm so good, you have failed, you are not worth a penny, kill yourself, etc...". If you are so good, and your countries are so much filled of people like you...why are the US, the UK and Ireland failed countries (economically and socially), and you had to escape from them?

You would not last 5 minutes in Nordic countries, with your attitude...thanks to the Jante Law.
I have never lived in or travelled to Switzerland but found ENGLISH FORUM SWITZERLAND by accident and find it very entertaining. Admittedly, I am not familiar with the Jante Law so I had to look it up and the only source I have at hand is the internet and here is what I found:

"THE JANTE LAW"
The poet Aksel Sandemose put Jante Law into words and they convey an important element of Norwegian culture: humility. Jante's Law teaches people to be modest and not 'think big'. It is demonstrated in most people's refusal to criticize others. Norwegians try to see all people as being on equal footing. They do not flaunt their wealth or financial achievements and look askance at those who do.

The tenets of Jante Law are:
. You shall not think you are special.
. You shall not believe you are smarter than others.
. You shall not believe you are wiser than others.
. You shall not behave as if you are better than others.
. You shall not believe that you know more than others.
. You shall not believe that you can fix things better than others.
. You shall not laugh at others.
. You shall not believe that others care about you.
. You shall not believe that you can teach others anything."

I guess we're all guilty of breaking some of these laws, including the OP.
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Old 17.09.2011, 22:24
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

(I'm probably going to regret taking part in this discussion, but whatever...)

Mr Tozzi, I don't belong to that "English-speaking race" you have come to loathe so much for some reason. Nor I am Swiss. So, you see, you have nor reason to hate me beforehand, and I hope this will allow us to have a rational, civil exchange of thoughts.

I'm going to assume you're Italian (your name sounds typically Italian to me). If that's the case, I probably understand where part of your frustration comes from: in many years spent in different countries and interacting with different people, I've often noticed a couple of things: 1) that Italians for some reason tend not to blend in very well when they move abroad (even after living there for decades, including learning the local language and local ways), and 2) others (from other parts of Europe or North America) tend to have strong prejudices against anyone who happens to be Italian and will treat him/her accordingly, no matter how hardworking, honest, decent that individual in fact is.

To this, I may add that I have lived and worked in Italy for a few years and while living there I noticed a couple more things that surprised me. One is that in Italy Italians for some reason treat certain people the same bigoted and arrogant way they complain they are treated abroad themselves. This includes not just foreigners from certain parts of Europe, but even Sardinians, who are technically Italian citizens. Why Italians have decided that all Sardinians, no matter how educated, are nothing but subhuman sheepshaggers is beyond me. I have found in the course of many years that they have the most exquisite sense of hospitality, are often highly educated despite living modest lives and are much more tolerant and open-minded than people living in more economically developed areas of Italy. Sure, they have a funny accent, but guess what, everybody's accent is funny to others' ears.

The second thing that came to my attention, and ultimately was one of the reasons why I was eager to relocate elsewhere, was that I was tired of Italians' penchant for complain always and about everything but de facto never do anything to actually change things. In a sense, the way you came across in this thread reminds me a lot of that kind of attitude.

(Incidentally, I have an excellent command of Italian, so if you think your message in this thread is being misunderstood because of language barriers, just give me a shout, and I can translate from Italian to English for you )

So... back to your original point. You complained that it is unfair that Switzerland doesn't give you a chance you feel you deserve, and instead welcomes with open arms other foreigners who don't even appreciate their luck.

I think the problem in your reasoning lies in the fact that Switzerland is not Eden. It's not a place where you get to go if you behave like a good boy. It's not a reward. It's just a country like any other, and like any other country the core of the issue is not how much you think Switzerland would be good for you, but what do you have to offer to Switzerland - why should Switzerland want you, you and not another guy?

Ask yourself these questions honestly and in a constructive way. Is there anything you can do (learn?) to make your CV more competitive, to stand out, instead of being just another "Tschingg" trying to settle down in Switzerland? To make you, as a human being, a valuable acquisition to a company, to this country in some way or another?

That's what worked for me and was the key to my integration (not just a way to secure a permit and a Swiss salary, but really a way to blend in, make friends, participate actively in the local life). You need to find your niche - which doesn't mean your niche is there, empty, waiting for you. More often than not you have to create/invent your own niche. It's hard work, but more likely to bear fruit than just sulk and feeling depressed and resentful. Don't you think?
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Old 17.09.2011, 22:55
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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(I'm probably going to regret taking part in this discussion, but whatever...)

I'm going to assume you're Italian (your name sounds typically Italian to me). If that's the case, I probably understand where part of your frustration comes from:
It may be unfair to disparage the Italians as well as the English speaking world. According to Mr. Tozzi's public profile he lists his nationality as Corsica, technically part of France but historically associated to both France and Italy.
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Old 17.09.2011, 22:57
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Re: No place for me in Switzerland

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Exactly...and why are "newbies" here always treated with so little respect? This forum is toxic and full of negative feelings... Find something else to do to express your repressed negative feelings...you might find yourself in the same position of the "newbies" in the future.
As a newbie who came here on a promise for a job that disappeared before his eyes, who was left in the what the sh1t do I do now not speaking then or now fluently any of the recognized languages, Having moved my family at my own expense and facing many challenges I got on with it. I did not complain or bitch, I took control of my own destiny, took control of my life, set up my own GmbH and bring in money from abroad. I am now accepted and do not earn hundreds of millions,I pay sh1t loads of taxes and loved by the Swiss system. I just think out of the box and do what is needed to service and try to provide for my family.

My children is my legacy and I came here honestly not with a job offer but sought a contract to at least sample what Switzerland had to offer, I liked it came here to stay and integrate.

Whilst you are up with here I speak 5 other languages just not the ones spoken here and learning them to be fluent is going to be a walk in the park.

Man up and do what is needed and stop bitching.
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