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  #61  
Old 01.10.2011, 21:03
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Re: greek bashing

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Anger? HOw did you get that? No one is angry. I think you are projecting? I don't care enough about Greek to angry over its self-made economic disaster. LOL What I'm saying is that stereotyping happens. Get over it.
haha i always have to laugh when people use psychology words...as i am a psychologist. no i'm not projecting. i thought you were angry as you bombarded me with questions that you knew there was only one way to answer (ie it's all the fault of the greeks). sorry if i misjudged but you came across like that

also, i don't need to "get over it". it's the complaint corner section of the forum and it is for people to get some steam out. i didn't say that i am absolutely distressed about it, but i believe i do have the right to feel that my country's people might be treated in an unfair way. you might feel the same if something similar happens to the US. i really hope we will never find out
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  #62  
Old 01.10.2011, 21:12
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Re: greek bashing

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  #63  
Old 01.10.2011, 21:16
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Re: greek bashing

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haha i always have to laugh when people use psychology words...as i am a psychologist. no i'm not projecting. i thought you were angry as you bombarded me with questions that you knew there was only one way to answer (ie it's all the fault of the greeks). sorry if i misjudged but you came across like that

also, i don't need to "get over it". it's the complaint corner section of the forum and it is for people to get some steam out. i didn't say that i am absolutely distressed about it, but i believe i do have the right to feel that my country's people might be treated in an unfair way. you might feel the same if something similar happens to the US. i really hope we will never find out

I asked questions, because that is typically how I approach controversial topics. I figure if you see that all the critics are not all wrong, although they are often hyperbolic, you might just slow down a bit in your whining.

I honestly don't see why you are so perturbed? I honestly don't get that bent out of shape of people acting out against the U.S. I'm not that nationalistic, I expect people to act like idiots (because most people are exactly that), and "haters are gonna hate"...

Most of the people talking rarely have any idea what they are talking about anyway.

Sometimes I like to correct people who are obviously spreading lies, but in reality I rarely get angry. As I said, most people are stupid. I learned this years ago.

We all have different personalities though. Please, carry on, as you correctly stated, that is what this thread is for. :-)
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  #64  
Old 02.10.2011, 00:33
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Re: greek bashing

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germany level wages?! i don't believe that the wage for a german university graduate is 700-800 euros.... this is why i hate how the media are covering the crisis, making all the greeks look as if they are having huge salaries when that is really not the case at all. it's sad and frustrating.
Average gross salary in Greece was actually € 17'524 per annum in 2010 (source: OECD). That figure is distorted (downwards) because hardly any self-employed or professional person in Greece declares their actual earnings (Daily Telegraph article on how private sector employees in Greece shoulder nearly the entire tax burden).
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Old 02.10.2011, 00:51
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greek bashing

Just wanted to provide some information. I don't like going into long discussions and arguments. I really think that if somebody is interested to find out the truth about anything he/she would look for it. Or he could jump to conslutions (that's always a nice shortcut).

So, some information about Greece:
1. The minimum wage in Greece is currently 570 gross or 500 net. They're now discussing to lower the minimum wage to 400 EUR.
2. The VAT in Greece is currently at 23% (with some exceptions).
3. Only the first 5,000 EUR per year don't get taxed. Anything beyond that gets taxed. This affects elderly people living on pensions, unemployed people etc. Tax rates range from 10 to 45%. (So income from 5,000 to 12,000 EUR gets taxed at 10%).
4. They added several new taxes. Real Estate taxes, special taxes (for self-employed people and professionals) and other taxes which everyone will have to pay. If you make more than 100,000 EUR then you have additional taxes (in addition to the 45% rate).
The last addition is a tax they will impose through electricity bills. The idea is that they will cut your electricity if you don't pay (in violation of the Constitution). It ranges from 5-15 EUR per m2 of your apartment / house. Do your math on that one...
6. There are a number of violations of the Constitution so they're now trying to pass new laws amending the Constitution.
7. Greek economists and financial analysts asked for a Greek Debt Audit which never went through. More info here: http://www.eurodad.org/whatsnew/articles.aspx?id=4413

Well... I'm not saying you have to believe me. You should not actually. You can do your own research but I thought I should give some data you can use.
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  #66  
Old 02.10.2011, 00:57
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Re: greek bashing

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my country's people might be treated in an unfair way. you might feel the same if something similar happens to the US. i really hope we will never find out
It is time to bash the USA,again.Those warmonger which paying low taxes ,low gas prices .growing there owen potato's,tomato's ,corn and drinking our Canadian beer
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  #67  
Old 02.10.2011, 06:22
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Re: greek bashing

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...as i am a psychologist.
Let me guess: Sitting on a couch all day made the job look attractive to you?


Most half educated Europeans are fully aware that the lower end of Greeks are financially not doing too well. But not seriously bad either. The problem many have is that there was and is a lot of money thrown out of the window. There have been incredible pensions for high level military, politicians and the like to the point that I'd call it corruption. And there really is a ridiculous tax system for the rich that cannot really be called "system"... but thanks for buying our subs.

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  #68  
Old 02.10.2011, 14:24
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Re: greek bashing

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Average gross salary in Greece was actually € 17'524 per annum in 2010 (source: OECD). That figure is distorted (downwards) because hardly any self-employed or professional person in Greece declares their actual earnings (Daily Telegraph article on how private sector employees in Greece shoulder nearly the entire tax burden).
that doesn't give the full picture.
one in five greeks was living below poverty line already back in 2006. that means an income of less that 6120 euros per year. "Notably, the income of the population’s top tier is six times larger on average than the income of the those people in the lowest echelo"
http://archive.ekathimerini.com/4dcg...04/2009_106415

currently the estimates of people living below poverty line are 20-25%. loads of articles from all over the world around, for anyone interested, here is one

http://www.etui.org/Publications2/Po...isis-in-Greece

" it s a result of the austerity and the wider recession, 5% of the Greek population saw their 2010 incomes fall below the 2009 poverty line, swelling the ranks of those who were already in poverty (another 20% of population)"
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  #69  
Old 02.10.2011, 14:25
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Re: greek bashing

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It is time to bash the USA,again.Those warmonger which paying low taxes ,low gas prices .growing there owen potato's,tomato's ,corn and drinking our Canadian beer
you got me wrong! i said US as the poster is coming from there. I would use any country's name.
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  #70  
Old 02.10.2011, 14:29
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Re: greek bashing

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Let me guess: Sitting on a couch all day made the job look attractive to you?
lol, that was the original idea, but i was gutted to find out that it is the client that sits on the couch.

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Most half educated Europeans are fully aware that the lower end of Greeks are financially not doing too well. But not seriously bad either. The problem many have is that there was and is a lot of money thrown out of the window. There have been incredible pensions for high level military, politicians and the like to the point that I'd call it corruption. And there really is a ridiculous tax system for the rich that cannot really be called "system"... but thanks for buying our subs.

for how bad is the lower end of greeks doing, please see my links above.

i totally agree with you about money thrown out of the window. it is disgusting, as is the tax system for the rich. unfortunately, most of them are not affected so much by the current austerity measures...
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  #71  
Old 02.10.2011, 18:31
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Re: greek bashing

I'd like to owe a ton of money to Greek banks right now:

http://www.on-news.gr/2011/10/blog-post_6760.html

An unemployed Greek woman who owed a little over 26,000 euros to two banks, Eurobank and National, received a full debt discharge on her outstanding loans.

Living la vida loca...
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  #72  
Old 02.10.2011, 18:47
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Re: greek bashing

I have to admit that during my first year in NL I had a couple of Greek neighbours that I ended up hating because they were so loud and rude and basically did not respect anyone living around them. Later that year I met a girl from Greece and I was a bit insecure as to what to make of her, we humans (no question some more than others) tend to categorize things and sometimes people, it is just the way we learn. But OK I gave her a chance and proved to be so nice, two years ago I went to Greece and discorvered a wonderful country with friendly people and I am dying to go there again. Some of us just simply refurse to keep an open mind, which is sad. I am glad i kept my mind open
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  #73  
Old 02.10.2011, 21:57
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Re: greek bashing

Your point being?

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So, some information about Greece:
1. The minimum wage in Greece is currently 570 gross or 500 net. They're now discussing to lower the minimum wage to 400 EUR.
Maybe there should be no minimum wage to begin with
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2. The VAT in Greece is currently at 23% (with some exceptions).
Which could explain why it is so widely evaded (some estimates indicate that 1/3 of it is evaded in Greece)
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3. Only the first 5,000 EUR per year don't get taxed. Anything beyond that gets taxed. This affects elderly people living on pensions, unemployed people etc. Tax rates range from 10 to 45%. (So income from 5,000 to 12,000 EUR gets taxed at 10%).
You mean elderly people in pension, like people older than 50? What a joke of pension age some people have!
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4. They added several new taxes. Real Estate taxes, special taxes (for self-employed people and professionals) and other taxes which everyone will have to pay. If you make more than 100,000 EUR then you have additional taxes (in addition to the 45% rate).
The real problem is not the tax level. The real problem is widespread evasion and the entitlement society. My sister went to the dentist in Greece. She asked for a receipt, the dentist's assistant conveniently said they ran out of them. Did not offer to send it by post either.
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The last addition is a tax they will impose through electricity bills. The idea is that they will cut your electricity if you don't pay (in violation of the Constitution). It ranges from 5-15 EUR per m2 of your apartment / house. Do your math on that one...
This is a desperate measure related to widespread evasion. You may not pay taxes but you do pay electricity.
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6. There are a number of violations of the Constitution so they're now trying to pass new laws amending the Constitution.
Thats cool
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7. Greek economists and financial analysts asked for a Greek Debt Audit which never went through. More info here: http://www.eurodad.org/whatsnew/articles.aspx?id=4413

Well... I'm not saying you have to believe me. You should not actually. You can do your own research but I thought I should give some data you can use.
The country is a f...ing joke:
shortage of ink had prevented the computerised tax centre at the finance ministry from sending out claims to taxpayers over the last 10 days.
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  #74  
Old 03.10.2011, 11:36
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Re: greek bashing

If Greeks are to blame for the situation in the country, then why do we see a similar situation in the making in Italy, Spain, Portugal and France? And why when prominent economists and financial analysts asked for a Greek Debt Audit were they ignored?

I had a chat with a friend who has studied a lot about the banking system and how it works. Banks take an amount of money and have the right to loan it up to 40 times. Now they want to have control over assets and resources not just at corporate level but at country level.

And if you think all that is right, then don't look "for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee".

Having said that, I think it's difficult for anyone to change his/her mind. So, this is my last post on this thread. And I'm an optimist so I know a bright future awaits us.
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Old 03.10.2011, 18:34
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Re: greek bashing

By receiving a lot of bashing about how lazy the Greeks are and how we are only good in spending other people's money I tried to explain with facts that the aforementioned Greek "qualities" are not true. I will not post these facts here as this is not the purpose of the thread and bashing cannot be fought with facts and figures as I found out. I tried to ignore people making that kind of comments. And as bashing is a childish behavior they stopped.
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  #76  
Old 03.10.2011, 19:01
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Re: greek bashing

Totally agree with you Crimson, im Greek too, and have never worked so hard in my life.. at the moment. I see many misgivings in Athens and businesses closing down, all over Greece, and most of it is not their own fault. Its sad, to not know when your next holiday will be, i guess now all these people protest because they are losing what already was not sufficient ... maybe someone will listen. We are fortunate to take our swiss franks there and enjoy our Greek island holidays.. the reality is that my friends do not get such a chance unfortunately. Good post !
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  #77  
Old 03.10.2011, 22:05
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Re: greek bashing

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Totally agree with you Crimson, im Greek too, and have never worked so hard in my life.. at the moment. I see many misgivings in Athens and businesses closing down, all over Greece, and most of it is not their own fault. Its sad, to not know when your next holiday will be, i guess now all these people protest because they are losing what already was not sufficient ... maybe someone will listen. We are fortunate to take our swiss franks there and enjoy our Greek island holidays.. the reality is that my friends do not get such a chance unfortunately. Good post !


So funny you mention that as just today I was speaking to my German friend about the Greek situation and she said specifically that the Germans feel like they are working to pay for the Greeks to go on holiday. I don't think you're pulling on the heartstrings of the rest of Europe by lamenting that the poor Greeks are missing out on their hols.
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  #78  
Old 03.10.2011, 22:14
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Re: greek bashing

You are all racist!


Michael Jackson was black, he has a skin disease. You bastards.
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Old 03.10.2011, 22:20
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Re: greek bashing

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Totally agree with you Crimson, im Greek too, and have never worked so hard in my life.. at the moment. I see many misgivings in Athens and businesses closing down, all over Greece, and most of it is not their own fault. Its sad, to not know when your next holiday will be, i guess now all these people protest because they are losing what already was not sufficient ... maybe someone will listen. We are fortunate to take our swiss franks there and enjoy our Greek island holidays.. the reality is that my friends do not get such a chance unfortunately. Good post !
holiday? *facepalm*
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Old 03.10.2011, 22:24
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Re: greek bashing

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holiday? *facepalm*
Idiot comment.
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