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  #81  
Old 03.10.2011, 22:32
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Re: greek bashing

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Idiot comment.
really? other people, including my parents had to worry about getting food on their plate. not where their next holiday will be and how to get someone else to pay for it so that they can retire 15 years earlier.

no wonder there is an image of 'lazy greeks' but to be honest, the greeks have just been carried along for the ride. so much money should not have been lent/borrowed. i guess they just took what was offered to them on a place.

the sad thing is that it is not just the greeks, but many other countries and in the end, many more prudent countries will be taken down as a result of this.
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  #82  
Old 03.10.2011, 23:31
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Re: greek bashing

Guys, you are missing the point. No matter what Greek governments did with the blessing of European officials (common, let's face it, they couldn't have done it without it), simple, ordinary people struggle (and they should not be make fun of). End of story.
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  #83  
Old 03.10.2011, 23:48
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Re: greek bashing

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really? other people, including my parents had to worry about getting food on their plate. not where their next holiday will be and how to get someone else to pay for it so that they can retire 15 years earlier.

no wonder there is an image of 'lazy greeks' but to be honest, the greeks have just been carried along for the ride. so much money should not have been lent/borrowed. i guess they just took what was offered to them on a place.

the sad thing is that it is not just the greeks, but many other countries and in the end, many more prudent countries will be taken down as a result of this.
just because someone made the holiday comment does not mean that everyone thinks like that. (altough i think she meant it in a sense that people cannot be carefree and make dreams anymore like we do, for example).
i know many greeks who are struggling and have not had the luxury to even think about holidays for years. see my links above for more than 20% of the population living below the poverty line. no much chance for any kind of treat there.

also, regarding the retirement age. the early retirement refers only to the public sector, under certain circumstances and it is badly paid. not everyone has or choses that option (i personally only know a couple or three people).
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  #84  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:18
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Re: greek bashing

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Guys, you are missing the point. No matter what Greek governments did with the blessing of European officials (common, let's face it, they couldn't have done it without it), simple, ordinary people struggle (and they should not be make fun of). End of story.
That's so sweet. Now lets solve World hunger and make peace among nations.
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  #85  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:25
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Re: greek bashing

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That's so sweet. Now lets solve World hunger and make peace among nations.
Yes, that would be the next thing on my agenda*. How did you guess that?

*if there were not so many South-Americans around..
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  #86  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:58
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Re: greek bashing

Be of good cheer and be not downhearted, my little Greek chums

Once Greece defaults and drops like a lead zeppelin out of the Eurozone, the spotlight will be on all the others who will immediately start dropping like flies - the problem virtually solves itself!!!







...unless you're portugese, irish, spanish or italian, of course!
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Old 04.10.2011, 08:32
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Re: greek bashing

Clear is that the retirement age in Greece has to be raised to 65 as in most of Western Europe or 75 as in Egypt. Also clear is that far more of the state owned enterprises have to be privatised, both to get money for the state AND to have a more competitive and more efficient way of doing business. Just look at the two major airlines in Greece, where Olympic Air in spite of at least partial privatisation still looks like a lame duck and Aegean Airlines like a hunting tiger. Greece still has vast potentials never used in a real way.

Quite many Greek people, as I have seen in Athens and on Crete suffer of a kind of national megalomania. It may be difficult but they ought to find a balance between a proper self-confidence and pride in their old history and on the other hand humble realism.

A "cut" in regard to the state-finances (debts) will be necessary still, even if that may send West European banks like the UBS down the drain
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Old 04.10.2011, 09:02
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Re: greek bashing

Interesting thread which i have just caught up with.

In my view it is clear the problem is not only Greece. In reality the problem is GREED. And that to a large extend is a western world problem. It is just that some countries have been enjoying it a little furher beyond their financial means than others and it has now gone so far that it cant be fixed "internally". So frankly speaking if i was a German tax payer (and lets be honest Germany is the most likely white knight) then i would also be a little pissed thtat my taxes where going up because i had to save some other nations arse.

But, the problem is so far beyond Greece. I think if we could contain this to Greece we should let it default faster thananyone can say Danish feta. The real worry is what impact it will have on all the western banks who are sitting on shed loads of Greek bonds? Alternatively, if "we" save Greece's arse, then atpresedent is set for saving Italy too. And that is a whole different problem. germany's pockets are deep, but not that deep.

So maybe we need to continue to look East and hope that China will help. But take note, the Chinese are not doing anything for free. Better brush up on your Mandarin!
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Old 04.10.2011, 10:46
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Re: greek bashing

Oh RATS! Im late. I just wanted to add I hada greek boyfriend girlfriend mother in law taxi driver or cat and therefore Greece is a brilliant place and don't listen to anyone that says different!

Aint this forum predictable in that an OP about don't hate us gets all the wellwishers.... That is unless youre british and then you just get a slagging!

Good job we brits have particularly thick dermogenes!
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  #90  
Old 04.10.2011, 10:47
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Re: greek bashing


You keep depictingthe Greek people as if they lived in luxury so far. You also keep comparing itssalaries to those of Slovenia’s for example which doesn’t make sense. They aredifferent economies, wrong comparison, as you wouldn’t compare Greece to theUK. Do you think it makes sense forpeople with degrees and experience to get 600 euros per month, when in order torent a studio in Athens, you need at least 300-350 euros? And let it me just say that the price of manyproducts in the UK, exactly same products, was significantly lower. What I alsoreally found surprising was the cost of feta cheese (greek brand, samepackaging, exactly the same) and greek yogurt (same brand) which was cheaper inthe UK. I draw this example to point that even in the case of UK, with significantlyhigher salaries, many products are cheaper. So, a crucial issue is that thesalaries don’t respond to the cost of living. Of course, there were people taxevading and the situation of the public sector was horrid, however you shouldn’tsay that all Greeks lived in luxury. And also have in mind that there aremany Greeks who had to observe the inequalities (and who complained of course,but no result). Oh and voting gives you responsibility but doesn't guarantee inexistence of corruption once someone is elected. Just open your mind tothe possibility that maybe not all Greeks deserve to suffer the consequencesand might be as pissed off as the Germans are.
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  #91  
Old 04.10.2011, 10:53
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Re: greek bashing

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Interesting thread which i have just caught up with.

In my view it is clear the problem is not only Greece. In reality the problem is GREED. And that to a large extend is a western world problem. It is just that some countries have been enjoying it a little furher beyond their financial means than others and it has now gone so far that it cant be fixed "internally". So frankly speaking if i was a German tax payer (and lets be honest Germany is the most likely white knight) then i would also be a little pissed thtat my taxes where going up because i had to save some other nations arse.

But, the problem is so far beyond Greece. I think if we could contain this to Greece we should let it default faster thananyone can say Danish feta. The real worry is what impact it will have on all the western banks who are sitting on shed loads of Greek bonds? Alternatively, if "we" save Greece's arse, then atpresedent is set for saving Italy too. And that is a whole different problem. germany's pockets are deep, but not that deep.

So maybe we need to continue to look East and hope that China will help. But take note, the Chinese are not doing anything for free. Better brush up on your Mandarin!
china did help by buying up some portuguese bonds. but they got so badly burned that they're probably not eager to lose more money. china has its own problems to deal with and their taxpayers are no happier to bail out other countries than german taxpayers.
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Old 04.10.2011, 10:57
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Re: greek bashing

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What I alsoreally found surprising was the cost of feta cheese (greek brand, samepackaging, exactly the same) and greek yogurt (same brand) which was cheaper inthe UK. I draw this example to point that even in the case of UK, with significantly higher salaries, many products are cheaper. So, a crucial issue is that thesalaries don’t respond to the cost of living.
that's the whole point. the greeks have been living beyond their means. everything there should cost less. whether it is feta cheese, rents or salaries.

several products sold in greece are the highest prices in europe!
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Old 04.10.2011, 10:59
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Re: greek bashing

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In reality the problem is GREED. And that to a large extend is a western world problem.
Yes of course, GREED!
I bet you have never asked for a salary increase.
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Old 04.10.2011, 11:07
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Re: greek bashing

You know what
I have some days when I turn a bit commie.
I'd say that Greece may do well by turning socialist, really-really socialist.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/things...nts-and-teache
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Old 04.10.2011, 11:19
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Re: greek bashing

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that's the whole point. the greeks have been living beyond their means. everything there should cost less. whether it is feta cheese, rents or salaries.

several products sold in greece are the highest prices in europe!
Pardon me but salaries should be higher and product prices down as they are overly high to bring the right level of both. We are not talking about an underdeveloped country. If proper investments were made, innovative businesses were created, differentiated agricultural produce was exported and new or improved form of tourism arose, Greece could have great development. Greece has great natural resources (hence conspiracy theories, I am not arguing whether they are wrong or right). In order for this to happen, the mentality of Greeks must change, and trust me younger generations see things in the a different eye. The question is with younger generations fleeing the country, who will stay to change it !
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Old 04.10.2011, 11:48
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Re: greek bashing

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Pardon me but salaries should be higher and product prices down as they are overly high to bring the right level of both. We are not talking about an underdeveloped country.
i'd argue that greek salaries should be lower and that it is an underdeveloped country.
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Old 04.10.2011, 11:55
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Re: greek bashing

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/things...nts-and-teache
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Old 04.10.2011, 12:32
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Re: greek bashing

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i'd argue that greek salaries should be lower and that it is an underdeveloped country.
Salaries in the private sector should be higher. Lowering wages as a tactic of increasing business profit would not help businesses whose profit strategy is only based on cost reduction via reducing salaries. I guess we know what investing in staff means! Also, no money circulating in the market means more business shut down! As for the underdeveloped country comment, I have nothing to say as it is your opinion which you are obviously not going to change.
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Old 04.10.2011, 12:35
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Re: greek bashing

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Salaries in the private sector should be higher. Lowering wages as a tactic of increasing business profit would not help businesses whose profit strategy is only based on cost reduction via reducing salaries. I guess we know what investing in staff means! Also, no money circulating in the market means more business shut down! As for the underdeveloped country comment, I have nothing to say as it is your opinion which you are obviously not going to change.
So if lowering wages and not paying taxes are out as a "profit strategy", what do you suggest then? Any Greek export industries other than feta (to an extent), olive oil (subsidized) or Metaxa *****?
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Old 04.10.2011, 12:52
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Re: greek bashing

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Totally agree with you Crimson, im Greek too, and have never worked so hard in my life.
Is it because you lived and worked in Greece before moving here? ;-)
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