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Old 29.09.2011, 20:36
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greek bashing

i guess i would have the same complaint if i lived anywhere else, but here it goes.

i'm really tired of people's comments about greece and greeks (and more IRL rather than here). and that coming from me that don't usually care so much about nationalities and i'm not one of those thinking that greece/greeks are perfect. on the contrary.

however, once and for all, not everyone in greece is lazy, takes long holidays or early pention or doesn't pay their taxes. i'm sorry, but it is insulting to hear things like that from work colleagues etc (even if they are passes as a joke). i am the first one to make fun of greeks and some of their stereotypical traits but after the 10,000 time , i^m sorry but it is not funny anymore.

fellow colleague, did you ever wondered: if greece was such a paradise (get paid even if you don't work, don't pay taxes etc) why on earth would i leave? did you ever wonder that when you refer to greeks in general as "lazy" or "tax evaders" that includes me?

what really upsets me is that people are being so judgemental and not try to see the human side of the story. we are talking about people here, people like you and me who are suffering more and more each day and struggling to make ends meet. people who cannot make plans about the future. it hurts me so much to hear all the bashing here and then to have friends and family on the phone who are struggling to have what many of us take for granted, ie a job and some sort of security for the future. it breaks my heart that people believe that anyone deserves that.

surely there are greeks who have been tax-evading or not working as hard as they were getting paid for but let me tell you this is not the majority (and certainly they are not getting "punished" the way average greeks are being punished at the moment). but try to put yourself in the shoes of the average greek, who has been working hard (really), has been ok with his paymenets to the state, has believed the politicians saying that the country was doing well, only to find themselves struggling more and more.
we shouldn't judge from the comfort of our nice life here, as we never know how things might turn. i challenge any of you to try to spend one month in greece with 700 euros (ie normal salary).

it is not pity that i am asking for (in respect to that, i am very greek. i hate pity - seriously people are asking me if my paretns have enough to survive?!). i am asking you to keep in mind that there are people involved in this story, people no better or no worse than in other countries, people no better or no worse than you and me.

sorry for the incoherent post but just had to let it out.
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Old 29.09.2011, 20:45
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Re: greek bashing

Never realised that the Greek people were stereotyped in such a way - I just thought they were as atypical of all people that live in a Mediterranean climate - taking it a bit easier in the biggest heat.

I'm sure that any economic problems that Greece may be experiencing are due more to poor Government Economic policy and adopting the Euro when the economy wasn't right, than to the ineptitude of its peoples.
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Old 29.09.2011, 20:46
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Re: greek bashing

I personally have no fukking clue what youre rant is about?

I have yet to hear anyone complain about Greeks or Greek people in general. Now on the other hand if youre referring to the Greek governments ability to fib and promise to its people, then I would say people should bash the Greek government. They have stolen well enough from the rest of Europe.

As for the citizens themselves? Who can blame them? They were promised utopia and they got lied to by politicians.

Give it 5 years. Governments all over the world will soon be exposed for promising pensions that they cant afford. The Greeks are simply the first in the queue.
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Old 29.09.2011, 20:46
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Re: greek bashing

Envy is a terrible thing, isn't it?

I find the phrase "agamisou, malaka"* to come in very useful in situations such as you describe.

*"You aren't entirely correct in your assertions, good sir."
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Old 29.09.2011, 20:50
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Re: greek bashing

who's been greek bashing? I happen to think Greeks are sexy. mmm hmm.
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Old 29.09.2011, 20:59
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Re: greek bashing

Greek looking to relocate To all the Greeks: Don't care about what some of the people in this forum say...there are a lot of repressed loud asshats that express their frustrations here. They are bullies to a great extend, and very arrogant...and they even think that they are "friendly" (typical English humor). I seriously don't understand how a British or an American can have the "faccia tosta" of telling European countries how they should run their houses...given the massive financial problems in the UK and in the US. Maybe Europe should kick out the UK (which is only a burden and a trojan horse of the US in Europe...De Gaulle was right), and give them a lesson. This Euro-crisis is a great opportunity for these pricks, and the Anglo-American media, to divert the attention of their lazy and ignorant viewers from the problems at home. Maybe these people that bash the average hard-working Greeks are the same "financial experts" that years ago helped the Greek government falsify their balances...they are always ready to help a corrupt government. P.S. I know why the returns are not shown in my posts...it must have to do with one of the many security-related Firefox plugins that I use, to now allow those pricks at Google and Facebook to track me and make money out of my profile, or to now allow Cross-site requests...I don't have the same problem with other forums...so it's this forum that it's broken.
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Old 29.09.2011, 21:01
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Re: greek bashing

Well in general, as a nation, they are lazier than Swiss people. That's a fact. If you're Swiss. If you're Greek, the question arises as to the pointlessness of a 7am work ethic that gives rise to a nation of mountain folk who's idea of a laugh is to chow down on a fitnessteller, run up a mountain, smoke a few cigs, berate a few out-of-towners and then do it again.

Generalisations are often true, but people mainly do things because they enjoy them and can't fathom why their neighbours aren't in on it too.

That is, ignore em Crimson.
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Old 29.09.2011, 21:01
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Re: greek bashing

Well I dont blame the Greek people. The system was there for the taking. My first employer in college was a wealthy Greek family. They hadnt lived in Greece for many years, but when they were old enough to retire the moved back to Greece in order to get their pension!!!!!! They never paid into the system but they still get cashed out. Who can blame them? (Other than the Germans of course)...

Another funny story: My host informed me of an audit recently done on one of the largest hospitals in Athens. This hospital was hemorrhaging Euros, and the Greek government is required to make up the deficit with capital injections. Officials began an inquiry into these losses and found 45 gardeners on staff at the hospital. The most interesting fact about the hospital was that it did not have a garden.

The Greeks simply know how the system works.
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Old 29.09.2011, 21:02
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Re: greek bashing

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gurgle gurgle splutter dribble.
Agamisou, malaka!

(See! It's easy! )
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Old 29.09.2011, 21:03
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Re: greek bashing

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Greek looking to relocate To all the Greeks: Don't care about what some of the people in this forum say...there are a lot of repressed loud asshats that express their frustrations here. They are bullies to a great extend, and very arrogant...and they even think that they are "friendly" (typical English humor). I seriously don't understand how a British or an American can have the "faccia tosta" of telling European countries how they should run their houses...given the massive financial problems in the UK and in the US. Maybe Europe should kick out the UK (which is only a burden and a trojan horse of the US in Europe...De Gaulle was right), and give them a lesson. This Euro-crisis is a great opportunity for these pricks, and the Anglo-American media, to divert the attention of their lazy and ignorant viewers from the problems at home. Maybe these people that bash the average hard-working Greeks are the same "financial experts" that years ago helped the Greek government falsify their balances...they are always ready to help a corrupt government. P.S. I know why the returns are not shown in my posts...it must have to do with one of the many security-related Firefox plugins that I use, to now allow those pricks at Google and Facebook to track me and make money out of my profile, or to now allow Cross-site requests...I don't have the same problem with other forums...so it's this forum that it's broken.
I like that the links you tried to put in this post dont work :P I think this forum does its job right
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Old 29.09.2011, 21:06
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Re: greek bashing

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I like that the links you tried to put in this post dont work :P I think this forum does its job right
Remember, when you want a Greek to look upstanding and industrious stand em next to an Italian.

Sshhhhhh sorry
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Old 29.09.2011, 21:07
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Re: greek bashing

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Well I dont blame the Greek people. The system was there for the taking. My first employer in college was a wealthy Greek family. They hadnt lived in Greece for many years, but when they were old enough to retire the moved back to Greece in order to get their pension!!!!!! They never paid into the system but they still get cashed out. Who can blame them? (Other than the Germans of course)...

Another funny story: My host informed me of an audit recently done on one of the largest hospitals in Athens. This hospital was hemorrhaging Euros, and the Greek government is required to make up the deficit with capital injections. Officials began an inquiry into these losses and found 45 gardeners on staff at the hospital. The most interesting fact about the hospital was that it did not have a garden.

The Greeks simply know how the system works.
I don't blame the Greek people either - they took what benefits were offered. And why not?

I had a Greek girlfriend when I was in college. She was really a great person - full of life and laughter. And talk about capital injections... oorah.

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Old 29.09.2011, 21:37
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Re: greek bashing

thanks for the feedback people!
but really, you've never heard the media or people bashing greeks as lazy who benefit on the backs of the hard working europeans?

economisto, i don't know if the greeks are more lazy than the swiss. as it was said in another post, young people really work long hours and weekends without ever being paid for it. i cannot prove it, but i know many people for whom this is their every day reality (including some of my immediate family members). at least here we have rights as workers whereas there you are left with the dilemma "you either do it or you lose your job".

and i agree, greek girls are sexy (the fact that i am one does not make me biased!)
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Old 29.09.2011, 21:41
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Re: greek bashing


All theexamples you mention are drawn from the public sector. Still within the publicsector, there are people who actually work. Many people want to work in thepublic sector because the working conditions in the private sector are horrid. Youmention the example of the gardeners, well how do you think that makes peoplewho work or have worked in the private sector feel? Or the decent people in thepublic sector (yes, generalizations are bad). They have paid their taxes, getnothing (pension and basic salary cuts, horrible health insurance) and theyhave to observe and complaint about incompetent people having jobs and get paidthrough their taxes! As for working hours, follow the link with officialeurostat data: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFPUB/KS-SF-11-030/EN/KS-SF-11-030-EN.PDF

I have hadenough with generalizations about the Greeks and I am not going to respond anymore to ignorant people who simply digest what the media feed them withoutbothering to look any further. Also, I don’t think that it is very polite towelcome people to a forum with negativity without knowing anything about them(of course I am not generalizing as many people have been polite, I am not a big fan of generalizations).
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Old 29.09.2011, 21:45
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Re: greek bashing

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All theexamples you mention are drawn from the public sector. Still within the publicsector, there are people who actually work. Many people want to work in thepublic sector because the working conditions in the private sector are horrid. Youmention the example of the gardeners, well how do you think that makes peoplewho work or have worked in the private sector feel? Or the decent people in thepublic sector (yes, generalizations are bad). They have paid their taxes, getnothing (pension and basic salary cuts, horrible health insurance) and theyhave to observe and complaint about incompetent people having jobs and get paidthrough their taxes! As for working hours, follow the link with officialeurostat data: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFPUB/KS-SF-11-030/EN/KS-SF-11-030-EN.PDF

I have hadenough with generalizations about the Greeks and I am not going to respond anymore to ignorant people who simply digest what the media feed them withoutbothering to look any further. Also, I don’t think that it is very polite towelcome people to a forum with negativity without knowing anything about them(of course I am not generalizing as many people have been polite, I am not a big fan of generalizations).
PS: Sorry for the spaces in between words, when I am typing, they seem fine.
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Old 29.09.2011, 21:49
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Re: greek bashing

Just because you're Greek doesn't mean that we can't have a general moan about the way that the inherent corruption and bureaucracy over many decades in Greece is causing other EU nations unnecessary hardship. You may not personally owe Brussels umpteen gazillion Euros, but the Greek problems weren't just created by dodgy politicians.

Same holds true for Portugal, Spain and Italy of course.
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Old 29.09.2011, 21:50
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Re: greek bashing

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thanks for the feedback people!
but really, you've never heard the media or people bashing greeks as lazy who benefit on the backs of the hard working europeans?
I have. One article in the NYT recently quoted some European banker as saying something very much along the lines that you mentioned. If the Euro fails, you'll probably just have to steel yourself to the litany of such comments that will ensue for a few years. Also, you might mention to your fellow countrymen/women that maybe toning down the boycotts/strikes/whathaveyou in the face of the bailouts might also ease the growing ill will. Europeans tend to have long memories. None of us are our countries, but it's hard to escape when folks have a grievance or an ax to grind.

At least you'll be able to warm your toes over the warm thought that at least your country isn't blamed for the whole ordeal in...what, only 4 posts? Awesome. Yes, really, the US and the UK conspired to bring this all about so that Europeans would have something more to gripe about and so the Swiss banker types could drive a few more Porsches. No need to thank us... (But I would like 2 or 3 of whatever the guy who posted that above is having as it seems a lot more fun than a glass of wine...)
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Old 29.09.2011, 22:03
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Re: greek bashing

I agree, it's awful what is going on in Greece now, and it is obviously really hurting the average Greek-on-the-street, but to say that the majority of Greeks follow the rules and paid their taxes is a laugh!

As people are alluding to in some of the posts here, tax evasion and avoidance is absolutely rampant in Greece. I lived in Athens for 4 years and can't tell you the number of times I was asked to hand over a nice white envelope full of cash to a doctor or some other professional and then receive a receipt for only half the amount I paid.

When I joined the local gym the owner told me the cost of membership was 40 euro per month, he then gave me a receipt for 20 euro. I looked at the receipt and said thank you. He looked at me and said "no, thank you". You had to have a full blown argument with every taxi driver to get him to turn on his meter.

When the drachma was phased out and the euro came in there was an economic boom as everyone dragged out their black money drachmas from under the mattress to spend up big before it was no longer legal tender. There was no way they could put that money into a bank account so it had to be spent.

It's the way of life there and quite frankly everyone accepted it as such. Unfortunately, the chickens are coming home to roost now. It's awful, for sure and I really feel for the average Greek. I was there over the summer and the number of empty shops and severe lack of tourists is sad to see. But things really could not have carried on the way they were and I regret to say, this crash was inevitable.

Luckily for the Greeks though, Germany can't afford to see the country fail and so the Greeks will be bailed out and all that euro money that was gleefully tossed about in the heydays of the early 2000s will never have to be accounted for or paid back.
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Old 29.09.2011, 22:06
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Re: greek bashing

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Just because you're Greek doesn't mean that we can't have a general moan about the way that the inherent corruption and bureaucracy over many decades in Greece is causing other EU nations unnecessary hardship. You may not personally owe Brussels umpteen gazillion Euros, but the Greek problems weren't just created by dodgy politicians.

Same holds true for Portugal, Spain and Italy of course.
of course people can have a general moan my rant was about people making generalizations about greeks when in fact know nothing about greek reality and how hard it is for people. i have lived there for 22 years so i do know things that you just can't not know unless you've lived there (same way i couldn't know certain things before living in CH).
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Old 29.09.2011, 22:12
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Re: greek bashing

Bashing Greece - or any other country - is fine. I'm happy to have a good moan about Switzerland from time to time, and Greece has certainly never been exempt from my sharp tongue, even if I do love the country to bits.

What is out of order, though, is banging on about it in the presence of someone from that country. I never say rude things about Switzerland to my Swiss friends and colleagues. I might joke a bit about their inability to come out for a pint without three weeks' notice or somesuch, but I certainly wouldn't launch into a rant about how crap the country is, or how horrible the people are (it isn't, and they're not, but I'm sure you get my point).

The same, surely, should go for anyone else. It must be a right pain to come from a country like the United States or Israel or Serbia, which everyone and his dog think they have a right to slag off in your presence. Now the Greeks are getting it, too, and it can't be very pleasant.

Having said that, I don't mind at all when people slag off England in front of me as a) they're usually right and b) all the moaning in the world won't make them English.

So, yes. Let's be nice, shall we? You can't blame Crimson for the fact that quite a lot of business in Greece is done by plain envelope.
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