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  #101  
Old 07.10.2011, 12:12
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

Unfortunately even in the UK you will very often hear would of/could of/should from people not realising the of is meant to be 've. My children went to schools in the North and South of England + a couple of years in outer London, spelling and grammar etc. have not been high on the priority list of English teachers in the last 25 years. Apparently as long as they're communicating it's OK I was constantly told, not that I fully agree.
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  #102  
Old 10.10.2011, 02:00
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

Chainsaws making love - I've been trying to find a descriptive way of describing it to people... Thank you =)
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  #103  
Old 12.10.2011, 10:43
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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I also think Swiss German is a different language...It will become official at some point, but till then I would be very happy if Swiss people were a little bit more willing to speak High German.
What did I say to deserve a, sorry, two groans??? OK I can't be sure if Swiss German is technically a language or a dialect but the fact that one can take Swiss German courses and that people practically expect you to do so, indicates that it's more than just a dialect. I actually think that Swiss people are proud of what differentiates them from the rest of German speakers and would love, or actually do consider Swiss German their own "language", and I support them. But since High German is the official language, I think they should embrace it and include it more in their daily life, so that people like me, who speak High German as a foreign language don't have to learn a "dialect" as well. Being Greek I have had problems understanding the Greek Cypriot dialect, but Cypriots are always willing to switch if you don't understand, whereas some Swiss I've met weren't. But still I haven't been much in the Swiss German part so this should not be taken as a gereralisation.
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  #104  
Old 12.10.2011, 11:49
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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Where were these "Americans" from which you heard utter such a thing? I've never heard any say it that way. "Axe" instead of "Ask" yes... "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" sure... but "had of known"? That would drive me nuts as well.
I've never understood "could care less". Why do people say that?
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  #105  
Old 12.10.2011, 12:00
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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I've never understood "could care less". Why do people say that?
Wen they were axed if they had of known worst grammer.
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  #106  
Old 12.10.2011, 21:27
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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What did I say to deserve a, sorry, two groans??? OK I can't be sure if Swiss German is technically a language or a dialect but the fact that one can take Swiss German courses and that people practically expect you to do so, indicates that it's more than just a dialect. I actually think that Swiss people are proud of what differentiates them from the rest of German speakers and would love, or actually do consider Swiss German their own "language", and I support them. But since High German is the official language, I think they should embrace it and include it more in their daily life, so that people like me, who speak High German as a foreign language don't have to learn a "dialect" as well. Being Greek I have had problems understanding the Greek Cypriot dialect, but Cypriots are always willing to switch if you don't understand, whereas some Swiss I've met weren't. But still I haven't been much in the Swiss German part so this should not be taken as a gereralisation.
No, the chance to take courses in dialect
A) is about the local dialect
B) it is more than ONE dialect, it is a dozen dialects
C) there is no such thing as "the rest of German speakers" as people in Vorarlberg, Lörrach and Ober-Elsass speak dialects which belongs to the same group of dialects
D) No, no, no. The official language is GERMAN and NOT High-German but neither any of the dialects. Standard German is fully included in daily life here with all writing even in private is done in Standard German, and Standard German is of course on TV, in cinemas and in theatres
E) "some Swiss" ? I presume you refer to the war generation ?
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  #107  
Old 12.10.2011, 22:11
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

E) No, as a matter of fact they were people like waiters and shop assistants, but maybe it was just their accent that was too strong, or maybe they were not swiss, and probably could mainly speak swiss German, oh I don't know anymore. The point is I had to ask them to repeat again and again and it's frustrating coz my German is actually really good. The majority of course spoke standard German to me, but even so I still feel that one has to learn the dialect to fully intergrate, as one has to understand what people also say around them and not just directly to them. A language lover as I am I will probably try it!

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No, the chance to take courses in dialect
A) is about the local dialect
B) it is more than ONE dialect, it is a dozen dialects
C) there is no such thing as "the rest of German speakers" as people in Vorarlberg, Lörrach and Ober-Elsass speak dialects which belongs to the same group of dialects
D) No, no, no. The official language is GERMAN and NOT High-German but neither any of the dialects. Standard German is fully included in daily life here with all writing even in private is done in Standard German, and Standard German is of course on TV, in cinemas and in theatres
E) "some Swiss" ? I presume you refer to the war generation ?
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  #108  
Old 13.10.2011, 00:34
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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E) No, as a matter of fact they were people like waiters and shop assistants, but maybe it was just their accent that was too strong, or maybe they were not swiss, and probably could mainly speak swiss German, oh I don't know anymore. The point is I had to ask them to repeat again and again and it's frustrating coz my German is actually really good. The majority of course spoke standard German to me, but even so I still feel that one has to learn the dialect to fully intergrate, as one has to understand what people also say around them and not just directly to them. A language lover as I am I will probably try it!
waiters and shop assistants have not been Swiss in Switzerland since the 1950ies. A few exceptions among the shop assistants permitted. The last CH restaurant waiter certainly went into retirement in the mid 1990ies Exceptions are the wives of the owners

AND, had you been a Swiss-German, your impression would have been the other way round "they do not speak Swiss-German, only their strange sort of High-German" because the "Swiss-German" spoken by many of them is rather a challenge
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  #109  
Old 13.10.2011, 01:29
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

I am tottaly agree!
I started to learn high german, but only for few weeks, than stopped - still do not understand any of ladies in coop, migros, etc. I have to look their display and see the numbers /money/ :-)
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  #110  
Old 13.10.2011, 06:23
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

I totally agree, is not a language and even the "German" description... is not quite German... should be called "Swiss Esperanto" or somethig in between!
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  #111  
Old 13.10.2011, 10:06
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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I totally agree, is not a language and even the "German" description... is not quite German... should be called "Swiss Esperanto" or somethig in between!

That is right!
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  #112  
Old 13.10.2011, 10:19
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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I am tottaly agree!
I started to learn high german, but only for few weeks, than stopped - still do not understand any of ladies in coop, migros, etc. I have to look their display and see the numbers /money/ :-)
that wouldn't be different anywhere in southern Germany, if the lady at the supermarket spoke the local dialect. The difference between Switzerland and Germany is just that more people are able to speak proper high German in Germany.

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  #113  
Old 13.10.2011, 10:22
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... It's a throat disease



My dad used to say it about Danish too. But that's because he was neither Danish or Swiss!
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  #114  
Old 14.10.2011, 13:35
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

As this thread diverted to dialects and or accents in the US, you might be interested in this article about Americanisms and vernacular language:

In fact, since its beginning, our native tongue has been maligned and mauled, invaded by foreigners and abused at home.
No one has ever succeeded in making it uniform, and no one ever will. But then, as Henry Thoreau observed more than a century ago, "Where shall we look for standard English but to the words of a standard man?"

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...#ixzz1akauXBL6
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  #115  
Old 14.10.2011, 17:22
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

I think the idea proposed by some of creating a standardised Swiss German is appalling. The variation in dialects are one of the things that makes this country special and forcing people to use a standardised version would risk dialects dying out (just as Romansch is declining). And the comment about about making it easier for foreigners who visit a country or region and cannot understand is completely arrogant. You are a visitor to their region - you need to make an effort to understand them, not the other way around.

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What did I say to deserve a, sorry, two groans??? OK I can't be sure if Swiss German is technically a language or a dialect but the fact that one can take Swiss German courses and that people practically expect you to do so, indicates that it's more than just a dialect. I actually think that Swiss people are proud of what differentiates them from the rest of German speakers and would love, or actually do consider Swiss German their own "language", and I support them. But since High German is the official language, I think they should embrace it and include it more in their daily life, so that people like me, who speak High German as a foreign language don't have to learn a "dialect" as well. Being Greek I have had problems understanding the Greek Cypriot dialect, but Cypriots are always willing to switch if you don't understand, whereas some Swiss I've met weren't. But still I haven't been much in the Swiss German part so this should not be taken as a gereralisation.
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  #116  
Old 14.10.2011, 22:54
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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I think the idea proposed by some of creating a standardised Swiss German is appalling. The variation in dialects are one of the things that makes this country special and forcing people to use a standardised version would risk dialects dying out (just as Romansch is declining). And the comment about about making it easier for foreigners who visit a country or region and cannot understand is completely arrogant. You are a visitor to their region - you need to make an effort to understand them, not the other way around.
Romansch is not a dialect but a language, with some four main dialects
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  #117  
Old 14.10.2011, 23:01
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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Simple example: Golfprostew. He speaks German good enough to teach golf, arrived here and easily adapted in some weeks to teach Swiss. If Swiss German was a language, this wasn't possible. End of.
Trev is bang on there. Working in Germany and concentrating first on Hochdeutsch has made the transition to Swiss German possible.

I wouldn't recommend learning Swiss German without any Hochdeutsch grounding first.

Stew
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  #118  
Old 15.10.2011, 02:03
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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AND, had you been a Swiss-German, your impression would have been the other way round "they do not speak Swiss-German, only their strange sort of High-German" because the "Swiss-German" spoken by many of them is rather a challenge
In another thread, you talked about two non-Swiss who were learning German but couldn't speak each others' native language either, so they were talking to each other in an imperfect German that each was able to understand, but you thought was "a new Swiss-German dialect." Might this "strange" High-German be this sort of "dialect"?
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Old 15.10.2011, 12:01
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Re: Swiss German isn't a language...

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In another thread, you talked about two non-Swiss who were learning German but couldn't speak each others' native language either, so they were talking to each other in an imperfect German that each was able to understand, but you thought was "a new Swiss-German dialect." Might this "strange" High-German be this sort of "dialect"?
Maybe, but not an Alemannic/Swiss/etc one but a dialect of Standard German, far closer to the Türkisch-Deutsch in places like Berlin or Hamburg or Köln. People here rather state "diä redet Yugo-Tüütsch"
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