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Old 25.10.2011, 22:52
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

I would also like to ask that the title of this thread please be changed. While i agree that there are a lot of Romanian gypsies around, and I agree that they can be unpleasant, they are not, as an aggregate, exclusively Romanian.

While I also hesitate to make this personal, I have to point out that this misconception is the main contributor to my struggle last year in finding work, and to the reason I did, and still do, experience so much racism from the Swiss based on the fact that I was born in Romania (despite the fact that I grew up in Canada, have spent much more time in Canada than Romana and have Canadian citizenship).
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Old 25.10.2011, 22:52
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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"The gypsy" ? THIS is demagoguery ! Most gypsies are traders or doing small repairs like the sharpening of knifes. Much of what they sell may be crap. Many of them ARE beggars. A few even may be thieves. Problems of course DO exist, but things should not be generalized
@Wolli: I'm pretty certain that the OP's use of the term demagogue was directed at LiB, not the gypsies.
  #43  
Old 25.10.2011, 22:54
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

I am surprised by your aggressiveness against the OP ! I know that it can feel offensive, and I especially understand your reaction cdcdoc, but I am sure the OP didn't talk about all Romanian people. Sometimes the words we use don't have the nuances that we have in mind.

It is so hard to talk about that kind of things. It always leads to generalization and misunderstandings. Some are called racists, some are called demagogues...

I can understand the OP, i am sometimes pissed off by some behaviour, and sometimes i wish the government of the country I live in could do something. Of course, i forget that things are so much more complicated that it appears.

But I think we are all smart enough to go beyond some unskilful chosen words.

To go back to the topic, I understand that we are privileged people, but I don't think that saying "poor them" is the solution either. We should make the difference between people that struggle with life, and those who just don't give a shit about anything.
I don't like to see people from other countries take advantage of a system, or people. I sometimes feel threaten by group of people that want money from me. And sometimes, it is just not easy to say no. Especially if you are a woman, especially when you are alone.

Last edited by Amande; 25.10.2011 at 23:25.
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Old 25.10.2011, 22:54
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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Soooo... all aggressive rude beggars are from Romania then... Did I get that right?

Just want to check I've got my fac... erm sorry, gross generalisations right.
step by step

> Romania has the largest number of resident gypsies in Europe
> Gypsies in Romania are a minority
> This minority just as the "Siebenbürger-Sachsen" are not liked
> Lots of them in the past 21 years emigrated west
> Some of them ARE beggars
conclusion: a good part of all "foreign" beggars here around indeed ARE Romanian gypsies

I wherever I am refuse beggars strictly but politely.
  #45  
Old 25.10.2011, 22:57
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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They could indeed be from Bulgaria, but Romania holds by far the largest amount of balkanic gypsies so it's a matter of probabilities, and they're easily identifiable by their looks and accent. Also because they behave exactly in the same manner in my home city and authorities there have identified them over and over again but they can do nothing about it.
Err, no, that is actually not true. Hungary has about the same percentage in population for instance, as Bulgaria and Slovakia, apparently. It is the total population of Romania (22 millions between borders) that makes them seem more numerous. And don't be sure about accents, they are not so easy identifiable. That is not to say that many of them didn't go to the "West" for begging.
From what you described, it seems that a large part of the gypsy beggars (or politically correct, Roma beggars) just move around Western Europe, being organized in gangs. They come and go, come and go.
Believe me, this situation IS more, much, much more painful for us, Romanians, then will ever be for your precious cities. Especially since they re-named themselves as Roma, a relatively new term for us, the East Europeans. (tigan, cigany, and similar sounding names were the norm before '90s). The confusion is ridiculous for educated and well-read persons, but lots of people are not quite like that.
It seems that all the workers (in agriculture, constructions, cleaning and elderly care ) as well as the high-skilled people who have come in quite a large number to work and live in different parts of Western Europe are wiped with the same brush, their work, their reputation is reduced to 0. Now I am asking you: do you think it is FAIR?
This kind of attitude "let's blame all Romanians" make people racist in Romania. We understand that gipsies have a different culture, we try to be patient and integrate them, and indeed, there has been a lot of effort into this direction done, and suddenly we notice everybody blames us.
For problems which could be EASILY solved, by laws and reglementation, such as begging interdiction and arresting persons who are organized in criminal bands.
They are not that strong, once they'll get the signal, they will react.

One more thing: I would nicely suggest you to ask that the name of your thread be changed. It is insulting, not true and purely another racist thing on the internet.
Thank you very much.
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  #46  
Old 25.10.2011, 23:03
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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@Wolli: I'm pretty certain that the OP's use of the term demagogue was directed at LiB, not the gypsies.
Sure. But he simply then made a statement which said that "THE Gypsy" is doing this and that, just as if ALL of them were begging. So that HE to me IS a demagogue
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Old 25.10.2011, 23:09
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

Lucky heather anyone?
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  #48  
Old 25.10.2011, 23:15
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

You've got to be a downright miserable phuck when you bash on someone being taken advantage of by a criminal gang, living in shambles, and desperate enough to beg.

A simple no and tolerance would be so much nicer and easier. Think of the greater issues than your meaningless annoyance.
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Old 25.10.2011, 23:19
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

I see it thus:

Is begging legal? -> no (in most of CH).
Are aggressive beggars annoying? -> yes.
Are gypsies legal residents? -> no (mostly).

If you don't like them, don't give them money. If they bother you, go to the police. If they really really bother you, become (politically) active and change the situation.

Though I understand your frustration (believe me, I've had my fair share of gypsy beggar annoyances) I don't think it's right to be rude to them or stereotype all Gypsies as being Romanian, there are many in Bulgaria and Hungary and elsewhere as well.

I do however agree with your observation that aggressive gypsy beggars have become an issue in many European cities where 20 years ago they were not.

Also, I'm not sure they are always really poor, in Brussels there are gypsies being bussed to strategic begging locations in the city and picked up at the end of the day having earned quite a few bob... gold teeth aren't cheap. A lot of them are rude and aggressive and it takes a patient person quite some effort to keep ignoring them in the hopes they go away.

Last edited by ElJeFe; 25.10.2011 at 23:27. Reason: spelling!
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Old 25.10.2011, 23:30
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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That's an interesting comment.

10+ years ago it was Turks
4-9 years ago the Serbs, Croats and Albanians
<4 years ago, anyone from the EU

Wonder who is next?
I vote for the Appenzellers ,I will come up with a reason later
  #51  
Old 25.10.2011, 23:42
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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If you don't like them, don't give them money.
I don't think it is always easy to refuse them. Older people especially can feel intimidated by aggressive beggars and may give them money just to get rid of them.
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  #52  
Old 25.10.2011, 23:42
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

Out of pure curiosity- from the posters in this thread: if someone who is not a beggar bugs/annoys/acts aggressively toward you, is the general consensus that one is to smile, fawn over and pet them, and/or go to the cops- or are there certain situations where one can just say 'f*** off you dirty t**t!'?

Is that maybe acceptable as long as the annoying bugger doesn't look like a gypsy? Or is one automatically a shite human just for thinking that someone looks like a gyspy? Is a presumably sensitive statement like this
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I have no idea of the nationality/ies of the drug pushers that were coming and going, and approaching me, but they were ALL fair skinned and with light hair. So were the sad looking people who periodically shuffled by, checking the rubbish bins on their way.
actually twistable into a veiled bit of stereotyping? I mean, that's sort of saying that just because folks are fair skinned with light hair they aren't gypsies? So all of them (gypsies) are dark haired/olive skinned? There's got to be some lighter skinned ones or at least ones who dye their hair, no?

It's all so confusing.

It's like the freakin skinheads. You see a guy with Docs a chrome dome rolled up jeans and a plaid shirt marching toward you giving the stink eye with several cronies in tow and you cross the street- only to be mortally embarrassed 'cause they are the nice skins.

I do agree that titling the thread with Romanians is very unfortunate and is another little blow to the credibility and reputation of a people whose nation has the burden of being the parking place for many Roma, but all the touchy-feelie goodness about not being disrespectful to beggars who won't leave you the feck alone is a bit much.
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  #53  
Old 25.10.2011, 23:58
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

Maybe it is MY attitude / carriage, maybe the beggars in Basel are different, but I've not encountered any who were particularly pushy here.

Sure there have been a time or two when someone approached me, asking for something and upon my utterance of "nicht verstandin Deutsch" they switched to English for the purpose of asking me if I could spare a bit (cracks me up), but if I say no, that's generally the end of it.


This whole stuff though reminds me of an initiative that I know some of the uni students in Colorado were enacting (a sister of a friend was involved), in which the students (and other interested parties) were able to purchase vouchers for local restaurants and when faced with someone begging, they gave them the voucher for a meal instead of cash.

While it doesn't completely do away with the begging issue, folks like me who dislike saying no out of the thought that maybe that person DOES need a lil cash for a meal get to do something good. On top of this too though, if the beggars ARE being pushed to it by some crime lord slave driver, if enough people are giving vouchers instead of money, perhaps they'll move along. Still not great for the beggars themselves if they're in the second scenario, they'd still probably be punished for not bringing back cash () BUT it perhaps gives them hope that people don't think they're worse than filth.
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  #54  
Old 26.10.2011, 00:00
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

I used to tell beggars (in the US) that I paid for everything by plastic & didn't carry cash- I don't know if this would wash in CH, though...

Then, one of them got clever and started telling me about his Paypal account.

Now, I don't have a good polite excuse...
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Old 26.10.2011, 00:07
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

Probably this thread will be soon closed by a nice mod. But I wonder how soon I'll see the next one, bashing all Romanians with this terrific joy, for achieving nothing. For I could see no other reason for this title, other than the sadistic pleasure of humiliating others.
If the gypsies are a nuisance don't give them money. Report their activities to the local police.
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Old 26.10.2011, 00:15
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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Then, one of them got clever and started telling me about his Paypal account.
haha, cheeky bugger!

To be honest, if you're legally residing in Switzerland I don't think you have to be out begging on the street if you don't want to, there's so many social help programs... or are there cases of people who are truly homeless even though they asked for help from the state? Perhaps some of the legal resident homeless are too proud to ask for a handout?
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Old 26.10.2011, 00:25
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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haha, cheeky bugger!
Yes, and if memory serves me, there was a mayor of San Francisco that wanted to give CC machines to that city's 'perpetually needy' population. Imagine what a farce that would've been...
  #58  
Old 26.10.2011, 00:26
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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Beggars are not productive members of society, as in they consume wealth without generating any new wealth themselves.
As Romanian gangster I have to take offence... they buy good medicals from me and keep me minted in BMW caps of baseball and Audi suits of track. You other moaning pig fondlers had better be careful... our friends in Sofia know how to crack forum. We come for you with sharp knives. PS if any you want knives sharp I'm a good chap to know.
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Old 26.10.2011, 00:30
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

Whilst the OP's choice of thread title in singling out Romanians is unfortunate and subsequent generalizations, I do, however, share the overall sentiment towards aggressive begging and also find it extremely annoying. After all, begging is not a right and neither does one have to give...

Why should I politely turn the other cheek when a beggar, regardless of their nationality or whether they're part of an organized criminal syndicate or working solo, not only aggressively demands money from me but then proceeds to insult me when I refuse? It has happened, it wasn't pretty and left me reeling with upset for days.

I fervently believe in showing compassion to others in need - irrespective of nationality etc - but not in the above scenario. Unfortunately, it is becoming increasingly more common here and I, for one, will not be intimidated or made to feel I must give in to such aggressive begging tactics.
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Old 26.10.2011, 01:00
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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Whilst the OP's choice of thread title in singling out Romanians is unfortunate and subsequent generalizations, I do, however, share the overall sentiment towards aggressive begging and also find it extremely annoying. After all, begging is not a right and neither does one have to give...

Why should I politely turn the other cheek when a beggar, regardless of their nationality or whether they're part of an organized criminal syndicate or working solo, not only aggressively demands money from me but then proceeds to insult me when I refuse? It has happened, it wasn't pretty and left me reeling with upset for days.

I fervently believe in showing compassion to others in need - irrespective of nationality etc - but not in the above scenario. Unfortunately, it is becoming increasingly more common here and I, for one, will not be intimidated or made to feel I must give in to such aggressive begging tactics.
I also agree with you. So far, what you've described it did not happen to me neither in Zurich, nor elsewhere in CH. Honestly.
Instead, I've experienced it back home, you should have heard the curses..yes, it is annoying.
But let's just not give the OP the merit of signalling the discomfort of aggressive begging, when in fact he bashed all the Romanians alike.
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