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  #121  
Old 26.10.2011, 17:00
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

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Next time somebody begs for money offer to buy them a meal, or if they need money for the bus/train offer to go to the ticket machine and buy them a ticket - they will back out immediatel.
Not the ones I have offered food to. It has always been accepted and generally eaten straight away.
  #122  
Old 26.10.2011, 17:24
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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That's once thing I appreciated on arriving in Zurich - the complete (or almost complete) absence of beggars.

After Paris (very bad) and London (even worse), that along with street cleanliness and decent public transport was most refreshing.
London beggars - dreadful! There he was, late on a Friday evening, a young man was seen to be begging at one of the central London tube stations. Worse - he was smartly dressed, wearing a suit, tie and I think he had cufflinks as well.

Actually, he was selective in who he approached - going up to people with foreign accents only. Who did he think he was fooling? Oh, just a minute. That was my son.

I am still thankful to the young women from Downunder, who, after learning that he had lost his wallet, lent him the money to buy a ticket so that he could get back to his new flat across the other side of the huge city that he had recently moved to and geographically had very little idea of.
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  #123  
Old 26.10.2011, 18:27
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

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Having said that, I personally would rather clean toilets than beg: it is a perfectly legitimate and legal job, I wouldn't feel like I am stealing from society, and I would conserve my dignity as an honest working human being.
Same here.
I too like to buy food for some needy people, back home, whenever I see an elderly in a shop with that look, craving for something- ah, you could see them, how decent, clean and modest they are, yet NOT begging, not asking for mercy, only with the full conscience and dignity that sometimes, history is above us and not beneath us, I just cannot resist. I ask them to buy them something, many a times I was REFUSED, but with the right sweet tone of voice I made some to accept my gifts. It was not only mercy in it, it was a private reconciliation with the harsh Romanian reality.
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  #124  
Old 26.10.2011, 19:16
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

Do they have soup kitchens/shelters like they do in the US? Are they government-run, privately run, or are there both? Has anyone offered to drop a legitimate beggar at one of these places? It might be a better thing for them, long-term, than a little quick coin in their hand (assuming they actually want to go...)?
  #125  
Old 26.10.2011, 19:24
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

http://yellow.local.ch/en/q/Notschlaf.html?rid=LS7b

http://yellow.local.ch/en/q/Gassenk%....html?rid=wSKG
  #126  
Old 26.10.2011, 19:46
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

I was curious, because I couldn't remember a single poster mentioning these. I'm sure that members of a begging gang wouldn't want to go there, but for legitimate (whatever that may be) beggars, this might be better help?
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  #127  
Old 26.10.2011, 23:46
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

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I was curious, because I couldn't remember a single poster mentioning these. I'm sure that members of a begging gang wouldn't want to go there, but for legitimate (whatever that may be) beggars, this might be better help?
I can assure you that all the "legitimate" beggars know everything about it.
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  #128  
Old 26.10.2011, 23:50
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

Such places require the resident to go out of the place by 10am - the place is provided largely for the sole purpose of overnight sleep.
  #129  
Old 26.10.2011, 23:54
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

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Such places require the resident to go out of the place by 10am - the place is provided largely for the sole purpose of overnight sleep.
So, just a bed, then? I'm not opining one way or another... I really don't know and am curious...
  #130  
Old 26.10.2011, 23:57
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

A bed, cooked meals, an opportunity for discussions etc. - it varies from emergency shelters. Homeless Swiss citizens returning from abroad are housed there pending long term and durable solutions.
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  #131  
Old 02.11.2011, 21:09
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I don't know how's the situation in other Swiss cities, but in Lausanne there's always a group of around 5 or 6 romanian gypsies asking all the time for money around the city centre, and they don't just sit down and wait for people to throw coins, they approach you and ask you directly to give them money, and even when you say "no, sorry" they keep saying things like "c'mon I'm sure you have some spare coins"

I'm pretty fed up with them, and I'd like the swiss police or authorities to do something about it because these things really can very much harm a city, you can see that in many other european cities where these groups also practise their "active begging" way of doing.

Lately I just tell them in a very rude manner to "allez-vous-en dans votre pays!", I've just seen how they ruined other places and can't avoid it although I know it's not nice. But neither it's nice to see them also washing their clothes with detergents and other chemical stuff right in the lake but they don't seem to care much about it...

uf, now that's better
You can see in many other European countries more beggars and they are not Romanian gypsies, they are locals. In example in London, you can be asked by some decent looking English people for some change. I witnessed it a lot when I lived in London.

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Do they have soup kitchens/shelters like they do in the US? Are they government-run, privately run, or are there both? Has anyone offered to drop a legitimate beggar at one of these places? It might be a better thing for them, long-term, than a little quick coin in their hand (assuming they actually want to go...)?
In Switzerland the Salvation Army offers them shelters and kitchens. It is hard to find a place there, the shelters are mostly full.

Last edited by jrspet; 02.11.2011 at 21:27. Reason: Merging of successive posts
  #132  
Old 04.11.2011, 15:40
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

So I wrote to the local authorities, and here's the official answer:

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Monsieur,

[...] Comme vous le savez les villes sont des laboratoires de modernité qui vivent des problèmes sociaux, économiques, écologiques, etc. souvent avant les régions moins peuplées. Ainsi, les centres urbains subissent en moyenne plus de délits que les zones périurbaines ou rurales. Les habitants des villes ont également tendance à souffrir d'un sentiment d'insécurité plus fort. Cela provient du fait que les villes concentrent plus d'activités et, donc, plus d'opportunités délictueuses. Elles confèrent également un anonymat, qui facilite la commission de forfaits. Par conséquent, les questions de sécurité nécessitent, en ville, un traitement plus attentif, sans pour autant amener à devoir considérer la ville comme pathogène. Il est important de prendre en compte le pouvoir d'attraction des villes, qui exige qu'une attention particulière soit portée au bien-être et à la sécurité des habitants, afin de maintenir un tissu urbain ouvert et convivial.

Le trafic de drogue est une activité illégale, très problématique qui occupe la Police de manière intense pour des résultats souvent décevant. Une émission intéressante traitait hier soir de ce thème. Nous vous indiquons les références, [...] http://www.tsr.ch/emissions/temps-pr...-quartier.html Par ailleurs, les effectifs de police ont été dernièrement augmenté afin de lutter avec plus d'efficacité contre le trafic de drogue sur le domaine public.

En ce concerne la mendicité, cette pratique n'est pas interdite à Lausanne pour l'instant. Une initiative populaire communale « Stop à la mendicité par métier » sera soumise au vote populaire en 2012 ou en début 2013. Il appartiendra donc aux Lausannois-e-s de décider de quel niveau de tolérance ils souhaitent dorénavant faire preuve envers les mendiants. La Police municipale lausannoise contrôle régulièrement l'identité des mendiant-e-s et les informe des règles à respecter. Nous sommes persuader que la mendicité en Suisse ne constitue pas un projet de vie et que les mendiants n'ont pas d'avenir dans nos rues, nous souhaitons donc encadrer de manière plus ferme la mendicité sans pour autant l'interdire, car il s'agit, à ce jour et à Lausanne, de pratiques de personnes très pauvres agissant seule ou en famille et non pas dans des réseaux mafieux.
[...]
Basically: They acknowledge there are problems and that they are partly inherent to a city, as by definition urban areas attract more criminals.

That said, they are increasing the efforts against those who sell drugs around the city, including the increase of police contingent.

And as for the beggars, there is an initiative being planned to be voted next year or the beginning of 2013 against it "Stop à la mendicité par métier", which would result in a ban to non-honest beggars let's say, which is what I was complaining about as I already stated that mendicity is not bad by definition, only when is done for business and by aggresive beggars.

So it all depends on the citizens of Lausanne! I'm sure they'll choose the good option and ban those beggars forever
  #133  
Old 04.11.2011, 15:53
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

Are the beggars allowed to vote?
  #134  
Old 04.11.2011, 16:12
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

I make regular trips to Geneva for work from Zurich and whilst I like Geneva in comparison to Zurich for some of its traits, i.e. it's a lot more culturally diverse and welcoming, and the people just friendlier. But I think thats cause of the french oo la la ness, rather than the german direct and aggressive tone. Although, it has to be said, a very pleasant compliment in German will still sound more aggressive than a french insult.

But one thing I hate about Geneva is the issue you mention. These beggars are everywhere, and they pull all sorts of tricks. Whether it be pretending to have some abnormal disability I have never seen in my life or acting, or pleading almost to fake tears to have some money for food. I have sometimes felt bad enough to splash a few coins, but once I couldnt be bothered to rush for my train and decided to sit out at Starbucks for 30mins and wait for the next one. In front of me congregated all the beggars I had seen over town, sporting miraculous recoveries and counting their money in the middle of a table and laughing and joking etc.

Sadly they ruin it for the genuine homeless people who really do need help.

If anyone else watched the BBC panorama special about the Romanian gypsies in London then its a big eye opener for what these people are actually doing. Someone mentioned this briefly above.
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  #135  
Old 04.11.2011, 16:40
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

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Are the beggars allowed to vote?
beggars can`t be choosers
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  #136  
Old 05.11.2011, 17:11
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

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once I couldnt be bothered to rush for my train and decided to sit out at Starbucks for 30mins and wait for the next one. In front of me congregated all the beggars I had seen over town, sporting miraculous recoveries and counting their money in the middle of a table and laughing and joking etc.

Sadly they ruin it for the genuine homeless people who really do need help.
I was sitting in Starbucks outside St Francois today and one that had been begging 15mins earlier was chatting away on an iphone! I just hope it wasn't a 4S
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  #137  
Old 05.11.2011, 19:46
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

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Although, it has to be said, a very pleasant compliment in German will still sound more aggressive than a french insult.
If folks talks to you, that is..

Geneva is so expensive, the fact folks give more change to beggars might be also because of that, the income of corporates who give change might be also higher, who knows. Always shocks me when in German CH, that there are Swiss cities that are cheaper than us, ugh.
  #138  
Old 05.11.2011, 23:18
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

yeah. Dream on and keep hoping that from the comfort of your Starbucks seats, once the ban on begging in Laussane will come into force you will never have to see beggaras, cheats, crocks, scums, poverty and the likes.
  #139  
Old 05.11.2011, 23:31
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Re: Let's rant: Romanians in the streets

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My question is, what really differentiates a begging gypsy who is probably a product of his/her environment from a banker who is probably a product of his/her environment?

Hey! I know the answer to this question.....

The banker never said "please". Sorry, bankers....just kidding with you!
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  #140  
Old 06.11.2011, 08:10
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Re: A rant about beggars ( Lausanne and probably elsewhere in CH )

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yeah. Dream on and keep hoping that from the comfort of your Starbucks seats, once the ban on begging in Laussane will come into force you will never have to see beggaras, cheats, crocks, scums, poverty and the likes.
I guess you totally missed the point of my comment
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