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  #101  
Old 16.11.2011, 11:55
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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exactly... they are wider leaving plenty of room for mum's in their 4X4's that have never even seen the side of a mountain, and there are generally about 10 of these stupidly oversized spots taking up prime parking.

you want to take your sprogs shopping... park at the end.. good exercise for you both.

I don't know about where you live, but at the malls around Zürich, I have only seen them at one entranceway. They take up maybe 10 spots of thousands.
And what is it about "prime parking". The best parking is the spot you find the fastest, which is usually not closest to the entrance - saves gas and time while you idle behind those trying to manoever their cars into too narrow spots in the prime parking area .
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Old 16.11.2011, 11:55
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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It seems there is quite an anti child brigade on this forum
I don't think that's quite it, I think it's a bit more a case of "the usual suspects" winding others up to make their work day pass more quickly. It should settle down in a few minutes (lunch time) until the after-lunch torpor starts to set in and they need another pick-me-up.


Meanwhile (I've said this before), the SIZE of some strollers is a bit ridiculous. Sure it's understandable that there is significant convenience provided by having a stroller large enough to carry all your groceries as well as your child(ren) BUT it makes things tough for EVERYONE on public transport, not just you.

Some strollers I've seen are so long that even with it pushed all the way to the wall, the push-bar extends past the point where someone coming from the seats on either side can comfortably get through to the door. Yes, there are other doors but the steps are not comfy (namely on the older trams), for some folks (such as shorties like me), the best entry is the same entry you'd use for your stroller because it is more or less "ground level."

Of course, the newer trams help this situation, but until all of the trams are switched to the newer style (where all the entries are without steps), we should all just keep on trying our best to be as polite and considerate as we can to each other - regardless of whether we have kids with us or not.
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  #103  
Old 16.11.2011, 11:57
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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You could say the same about cars (when I was younger, they weren't the size of SUVs and nor did they have off-road capabilities).

Same with mountain-bikes - they didn't exist either and people still went off-road.

It's only with the invention of new materials and construction techniques that these things are possible.

We have two strollers- a light, small, folding one for town and flights etc and an off-road one for off-road through forests etc.

Same with most people here into bikes. They have a road bike and a mountain bike.

Me too, my foot sack is too big for my smaller which I usually bring to the city.
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  #104  
Old 16.11.2011, 12:00
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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I don't think that's quite it, I think it's a bit more a case of "the usual suspects" winding others up to make their work day pass more quickly. It should settle down in a few minutes (lunch time) until the after-lunch torpor starts to set in and they need another pick-me-up.


Meanwhile (I've said this before), the SIZE of some strollers is a bit ridiculous. Sure it's understandable that there convenience provided by having a stroller large enough to carry all your groceries as well as your child(ren) BUT it makes things tough for EVERYONE on public transport, not just you.

Some strollers I've seen are so long that even with it pushed all the way to the wall, the push-bar extends past the point where someone coming from the seats on either side can comfortably get through to the door. Yes, there are other doors but the steps are not comfy (namely on the older trams), for some folks (such as shorties like me), the best entry is the same entry you'd use for your stroller because it is more or less "ground level."

Of course, the newer trams help this situation, but until all of the trams are switched to the newer style (where all the entries are without steps), we should all just keep on trying our best to be as polite and considerate as we can to each other - regardless of whether we have kids with us or not.
I quite frankly object milud!
All my thoughtful and reflected submissions having been passed orf as "mindless collywob" to relieve a boring morning? I would have you know I have been extremely productive these past few hours and certainly took valuable minutes off my busy schedule to pass my invaluable comments. I ll be a while responding now as I have an equally important luncheon obligation. Toodle pip. and with that, the great Grumpiness retired
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  #105  
Old 16.11.2011, 12:01
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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anti child brigade
nah. i like kids. strollers and clueless parents? not so much.
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  #106  
Old 16.11.2011, 12:04
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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nah. i like kids. strollers and clueless parents? not so much.
Can't have one without the other. Sleep deprivation will make a person crazy!
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  #107  
Old 16.11.2011, 12:06
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Oh, oh! Got a solution for this - stare back into his eyes and form a kind of "air kiss" (Mwah!) as you do it. Works every time (tried and tested). They spend the rest of the trip avoiding your eyes...
The Staring Game is always won by the more confident person. Make them break eye contact, and don't act ashamed of yourself. Most people will break eye contact, and in their minds start to justify their own behavior (either by making excuses to themselves, or by belittling you in their head so they feel better). Most people will not make eye contact with you again.

A lot of the transit conflict issues I read about on here seem to stem from perceptions of confidence (or assertiveness), i.e. the most confident/assertive person seems to determine the social mores of a situation, and these values are then 'confirmed by omission,' in that the less confident/assertive individuals in the situation allow them to happen. I think I made sense there...
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  #108  
Old 16.11.2011, 12:08
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

Perhaps what we're seeing is a lack of empathy for our fellow human beings, on both sides.

- Commuters for being inflexible/immovable for parents with small children
- Parents for not being understanding that commuters are crammed into small spaces and just want to get to their destination without being rammed by a pram

Meh.
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Old 16.11.2011, 12:26
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Perhaps what we're seeing is a lack of empathy for our fellow human beings, on both sides.

- Commuters for being inflexible/immovable for parents with small children
- Parents for not being understanding that commuters are crammed into small spaces and just want to get to their destination without being rammed by a pram

Meh.
I skipped the rest of this thread, but from this post, I understand that the summary is: people suck.

OP - cuss them out in your louisiana drawl. They'll try to switch to English automatically (just like you tried German) and then you have the advantage!
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Old 16.11.2011, 12:32
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

I am confused about why there is so much resentment about people with small children, without them there will be no adults to support you in your old age .
Having a baby in a pushchair is just one example of times when you need people to be considerate, other times will be if you have any mobility issues , luggage or shopping. In fact I can't think of anyone who would not need some consideration to be shown at some point in their lives.

As for mother and baby spaces I think they a great idea and I would be happy for them to be anywhere in a car park. I am sure other car drives are happy not to have their cars doors bumped by people who need to fully open their car doors to get out of the car.

As for children not being taken out anywhere. This is an expat site right? Full of people who have left their support network behind? Not everyone is in a position to organise a babysitter when you run out of bread and milk.
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  #111  
Old 16.11.2011, 12:37
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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That's how I see today's stroller. NowadayS, They are built for bulk size rather than functionality.
Really? This was my ride when I was a tiddler. Wouldn't fancy trying to haul it up onto a tram.

Plus the so called "stroller" for when I got a bit older - still a massive monstrosity.
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  #112  
Old 16.11.2011, 12:38
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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That's not too far removed from what I see already.

Without going top far off topic, can anybody explain to me why strollers are the size of an average 4x4 (SUV) these days. When I were a lad being pushed around they were a lot smaller, and, although lacking in suspension, antilock braking etc, they were perfectly fit for purpose, if a bit rough. Moreover you could fit 3 of them into the space one takes up these days.

Just curious.
AMEN.

I am usually very tolerant of mothers and push chairs especially during rush hour. I like to think that they didnt choose to battle that crowd. But it just takes a few inconsiderate ones to spoil it for the rest of us - just like dog owners, smokers blah blah blah..

I was on the tram the other day and this woman with a monstrous SUV pram boarded and proceeded to shove her pram with her child in it right at the corner near me OVER my foot.

I yelled in pain and she simply said: "oh".

OH??????!

I'LL SHOW YOU OH!

Just like it takes a few rude mothers who have zero spatial awareness and manners as well as idiots with no common decency and dont give way that sparks off a debate between the anti-child and parents brigade every other week on this forum.

Good that you got it off your chest CajunSwiss but dont let it get to you. It takes all sorts and you've just been unlucky. Most people I've come across have been more than helpful with mothers in getting their prams onto trams and making space for them.
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  #113  
Old 16.11.2011, 12:40
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

Also, and this is a little of my own personal rant- Why are strollers (prams) getting so big anymore? I've seen pictures of the thing in which I was rolled around by my parents, and it was very compact and lightweight (it was one of those type with a 'hammock' style seat stretched between the frame and a clasping seatbelt to keep the baby secure. One person could easily maneuver this anywhere without assistance). Strollers today have grown to the proportions of pocket battleships, it seems! I understand the need for storage for diapers, toys, etc. but I have routinely seen (in the US, haven't been in CH long enough yet) strollers with shopping-cart-esque storage accomodations, DVD players (I actually saw one with 2 screens once- the second was for Mommy on the handlebar) to entertain Junior, fans, iPod/iPhone docking stations, etc. etc. I just wonder when Segways will include optional integrated strollers...

As a former restaurant manager who worked in a mall restaurant in a mall heavily frequented by well-off soccer-mom types, I would routinely have to figure out accommodation for scores of these SUV-sized (I exaggerate, I know ) contraptions, without blocking tables or entrances/exits (emergency safety), disrupting work flows unreasonably, nor disrupting the experiences of my other dining guests. Sometimes this would be complicated by the insistence of the stroller parent that the stroller remain by the table (due to the layout of the restaurant, there were places this would be impossible to do). From this perspective I do empathize with those that don't want to be inconvenienced by a huge stroller (or 2 or 3) in a small tram car/bus/etc.

And I do empathize with the parents who, truly, want the best, safest, most comfortable stroller they can find. I am not yet a parent, but I know I will have absolutely the same mindset when I do become one. However, when one buys such large strollers that one needs help in their loading & offloading, one opens oneself to be dependent upon others. And, as we have seen, not everybody out there is Mary Poppins and Boy Scouts.
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  #114  
Old 16.11.2011, 12:56
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

Maybe it's my utopian thinking but I feel, it would be beneficial that they'd implement easy access trams or wagons solely for the elderly, people with stollers (and kids) and the walking impaired.
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  #115  
Old 16.11.2011, 12:58
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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I thought you were impotent and jealous
I realize this was probably / possibly meant as something of a joke but it's really in poor taste.

People with kids really need to put this pathetic thought out of their heads - whether someone wants kids or not, whether they may be unhappy about their childless state or not, I really don't think anyone is jealous that YOU have kids!

Beyond that, especially if there is anyone for whom it is true, heartless statements like that really deserve a kick in the shin. Pisses me the f off.

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Really? This was my ride when I was a tiddler. Wouldn't fancy trying to haul it up onto a tram.

Plus the so called "stroller" for when I got a bit older - still a massive monstrosity.

This is what I used to see used for kids on the go. I think it is a matter of keeping up with the Jones family.. who has the biggest best everything, including monster SUV style strollers for their kids.


(photo found here)
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  #116  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:00
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Maybe it's my utopian thinking but I think, it would be beneficial that they'd implement easy access trams or wagons solely for the elderly, people with stollers (and kids) and the walking impaired.
No, that would be smart.

And expensive to retrofit, which is probably why it hasn't been done yet.
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Old 16.11.2011, 13:08
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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This is what I used to see used for kids on the go. I think it is a matter of keeping up with the Jones family.. who has the biggest best everything, including monster SUV style strollers for their kids.


(photo found here)
I've seen a few mothers using this method and I think its awesome:



Can any parents shed light why its not as popular as it should be, especially during rush hour??
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  #118  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:19
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

Don't worry, this is not limited to individuals with buggies/pushchairs, this is just the Swiss way of commuting. Spacial awareness, common courteousy simply does not exist to the extent it does in other countries.

I am surprised you have had abuse though. As my experiences have stemmed from pure ignorance from what I can tell, and any confrontation has led to an awkward avoidance by the individual, but then maybe being male, 6"2, they think twice.

It is like a genuine innocent ignorance of what they are doing. It doesn't occur to these people that others might also want to get on the tram, or that it might make sense to let those off the tram before trying to board.

When I realised this was just "the way" and there wasnt any seemingly deeper undelying motive of deliberate rudeness, you soon adjust accordingly. It may take a few bumping into people, barging them with your shoulder or pretending they're not there as you effectively walk through them as you are getting of a tram or whatever, occassionally something will be said and you merely point of the obvious flaw in their ignorance.
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  #119  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:20
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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I've seen a few mothers using this method and I think its awesome:



Can any parents shed light why its not as popular as it should be, especially during rush hour??
Probably, because a parent with an infant never has just the infant. There's the obligatory diaper bag that's the size of an airplane carry-on. Those bundles are wonderful if you're going for a short walk around the neighborhood, or if you're being followed by someone else with all the baby-gear. I think I remember there being some company that has gotten well-known for making something like that with an integrated backpack for the diapers, etc.
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Old 16.11.2011, 13:23
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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I've seen a few mothers using this method and I think its awesome:



Can any parents shed light why its not as popular as it should be, especially during rush hour??
Practical reasons. Babies get heavy. Their bag is heavy too (with supplies inside for a full day in childcare .. I used to carry 2 meals, iceblocks, and the nappies, comforter, blanket, change of clothes, wipes blah blah blah), then there is your work bag and then there is the problem (well I had it) of not actually being able to see your own feet!!

I loved my baby sling but found it more useful when with another adult (help carry stuff) or for short trips only where not much else required) but if you are on your own and in charge of another child as well, then they can be tricky.

(I used to get my then 5 year old to carry some of the baby's supplies in his back pack that was meant to be for his toys .. )
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