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  #121  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:23
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Has anyone else had this problem? In the last month, I have been antagonized by a woman who refused to move even though the tram was almost empty, pushed by a man as I tried to reach my 4yo and push the stroller on the tram, and told "F*** You". I find most people here polite, but public transportation can be brutal.
It is not like I have a big choice of locations to put my stroller on the trams in Basel. Why do people not get this??? Give me a break. My German is not so good either which only adds to the frustration. Or let's say, my German can't catch up with my S. Louisiana sassy mouth.
Had the same experience in Zurich.
People are always standing at the "stroller" place.
And they are Swiss or young guys.
Soooo Stupid!
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  #122  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:23
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Don't worry, this is not limited to individuals with buggies/pushchairs, this is just the Swiss way of commuting. Spacial awareness, common courteousy simply does not exist to the extent it does in other countries.....
Really? Having lived in 'other' countries, it's quite common to see the exact same behaviours. But thanks for pointing out that it's exclusively Swiss.

Geez.
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  #123  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:27
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Really? Having lived in 'other' countries, it's quite common to see the exact same behaviours. But thanks for pointing out that it's exclusively Swiss.

Geez.

Terrible habit twisting peoples comments. Adding the word exclusively is a bit odd.

Having lived in other countries too, perhaps not the same ones you have, I can confidently say I have never experienced the ignorance to the extent I have here. However, you do seem to have missed my point on the fact that I do not believe there is any deliberate malice in this behaviour, just ignorance and lack of thought. Most are more than happy to adjust, move, or be barged into as perhaps its what they expect from commuting.
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  #124  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:31
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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iceblocks
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  #125  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:33
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Sorry! Can see how funny this might be .. those freezer plastic ice pack things (which we call iceblocks!) to keep the food at a chilled temperature! Used to lug 4 of those around ...
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  #126  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:34
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Maybe it's my utopian thinking but I feel, it would be beneficial that they'd implement easy access trams or wagons solely for the elderly, people with stollers (and kids) and the walking impaired.
Not forgetting special trams for those who refuse to buy a ticket
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  #127  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:34
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Practical reasons. Babies get heavy. Their bag is heavy too (with supplies inside for a full day in childcare .. I used to carry 2 meals, iceblocks, and the nappies, comforter, blanket, change of clothes, wipes blah blah blah), then there is your work bag and then there is the problem (well I had it) of not actually being able to see your own feet!!
Seriously... wtf.

Don't mean to be rude but...

(My internet filter does not let me find the right pics )

A guy like this vvvvv (corpsman)



Supports a platoon, with a bag that size. you must be doing something wrong...
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  #128  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:34
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Terrible habit twisting peoples comments. Adding the word exclusively is a bit odd.

Having lived in other countries too, perhaps not the same ones you have, I can confidently say I have never experienced the ignorance to the extent I have here. However, you do seem to have missed my point on the fact that I do not believe there is any deliberate malice in this behaviour, just ignorance and lack of thought. Most are more than happy to adjust, move, or be barged into as perhaps its what they expect from commuting.
What exactly am I twisting? Habit, quoi?

There are worse places to be. In London and Glasgow I've seen more 'commuter-rage' to last a lifetime.
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  #129  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:36
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

Ouchboy .. you are most welcome to come over and try to re-educate me in my baby bag packing habits .. but then you have to spend the entire day out and about with the said small person to test drive if you got the contents right.

And my baby bag from the looks of it isn't as big as that small suitcase in your photo ..
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  #130  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:37
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Had the same experience in Zurich.
People are always standing at the "stroller" place.
And they are Swiss or young guys.
Soooo Stupid!
Usually some teenagers or very young guys would do so, they have no clue about what happens around them. It's the age.
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  #131  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:38
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Sorry! Can see how funny this might be .. those freezer plastic ice pack things (which we call iceblocks!) to keep the food at a chilled temperature! Used to lug 4 of those around ...
I guess being a non-parent, I really wont understand the need for massive diaper bags because lots of things i've seen in diaper bags are pretty unnecessary in my opinion.

Surely some pieces of diapers, food, hot water, wipes, a favourite toy, a change of clothes dont really need a bag the size of a hand luggage? But what do I know?
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  #132  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:41
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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I guess being a non-parent, I really wont understand the need for massive diaper bags because lots of things i've seen in diaper bags are pretty unnecessary in my opinion.

Surely some pieces of diapers, food, hot water, wipes, a favourite toy, a change of clothes dont really need a bag the size of a hand luggage? But what do I know?
Well my bag isn't the size of hand luggage. It is an off the shelf Jack wolfskin messenger bag, marketed actually for the commuter market. My point is that it gets heavy, what with 2 bags (one being my briefcase) and the little one in a sling. (Or it did. I no longer work and he no longer needs carrying.)
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  #133  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:47
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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What exactly am I twisting? Habit, quoi?

There are worse places to be. In London and Glasgow I've seen more 'commuter-rage' to last a lifetime.
I didn't say it was exclusively Switzerland.

I didn't say it was better in ALL other countries. However, the fact there is many a thread, dicussion re: this sort of topic, I would take a wild guess that people find it common place in Switzerland, and, are surprised by it. Go figure.

I am from, lived, and worked in london for 8 years. Can't say I share your views. Sure, the amount of people commuting is ten times that here, so the over crowdedness causes more rage, but generally there is an etiquette which people follow. The rage you speak off is generally when a foreigner, non-londoner, whatever, breaks the code of etiquette and barges their way on whilst 20 people, 10 either side of the doors, are allowing people off, or doesnt allow those waiting before them on first, common sense and courteousy.

Now if the etiquette here is each man for themselves, prevent others from boarding, do not make space, then thats fine by me, but I do not believe that is the case, its just very common.
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  #134  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:47
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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I am confused about why there is so much resentment about people with small children, without them there will be no adults to support you in your old age
I mean really?

I am saving for my old age so I can afford a servant and happily remain child free in my prime young years and not waste them away by being a servant to a needy and annoying child How about you don't worry about my old age and in return don't expect special treatment just because you knowingly chose to have a child and a 4x4 stroller?
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  #135  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:48
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

Most important phrases I learned when I moved to Europe:

1) Asking for directions
2) Asking for the toilet
3) Ordering at a restaurant
4) Arming myself with a slew of fight back phrases

I found that the Swiss and Germans respond better if you fight back. Many of them love nothing more than to bully you and tell you how things go in their miserable little world.

Many of them are even embarrassed by their English skills so if your brain freezes, yelling back in English will usually shut them up! Struggling in German just gives them the upper hand and can make them think you're just another stupid foreigner.
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  #136  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:54
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Maybe it's my utopian thinking but I feel, it would be beneficial that they'd implement easy access trams or wagons solely for the elderly, people with stollers (and kids) and the walking impaired.
But they do. Some of the carriages on the S2 trains have an area precisely for strollers, bikes and wheelchairs with easy access to the door, and on the flat, lower half of the carriage.
The seats fold away.

Unfortunately, this area always seems to be taken up with people who could easily sit elsewhere.

(wasn't this the point the OP was trying to make).
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  #137  
Old 16.11.2011, 13:56
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Most important phrases I learned when I moved to Europe:

1) Asking for directions
2) Asking for the toilet
3) Ordering at a restaurant
4) Arming myself with a slew of fight back phrases

I found that the Swiss and Germans respond better if you fight back. Many of them love nothing more than to bully you and tell you how things go in their miserable little world.

Many of them are even embarrassed by their English skills so if your brain freezes, yelling back in English will usually shut them up! Struggling in German just gives them the upper hand and can make them think you're just another stupid foreigner.
I think you touch an important issue here, which may be the root off these issues. Is it purely cultural?? You say miserable, but is it just their way.

A basic example: English has its tendencies to be very indirect. Please may I have? Would it be possible to get? etc etc. Other countries cultures see us in some ways as being overly polite.

The German way is: I want / I need that. It is not necessarily regarded as impolite, its just getting to the point.

My point being, if we are to think in our heads and get annoyed with that rude, in our opinion, and ignorant ar$e is blocking me and clearly not being polite, by shouting, MOVE in german, would they possibly just move and think nothing of it, whilst we sit there thinking what a dick. Are we over thinking it ourselves?
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  #138  
Old 16.11.2011, 14:00
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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Are we over thinking it ourselves?
I think that could apply to about 90% of the EF's Complaints Corner...
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  #139  
Old 16.11.2011, 14:03
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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The German way is: I want / I need that. It is not necessarily regarded as impolite, its just getting to the point.
Not necessarily: Ich möchte..; Darf ich...? and so on. I rarely hear demands from people and 99% of people ask if the visibly empty seat next to you is taken before they sit down.

Then again, I do take great delight in asking very politely if a seat is taken, knowing full well the person has settled down very comfortably with their bag and coat next to them
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Old 16.11.2011, 14:06
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Re: People not moving when I try to get on tram with stroller

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My point being, if we are to think in our heads and get annoyed with that rude, in our opinion, and ignorant ar$e is blocking me and clearly not being polite, by shouting, MOVE in german, would they possibly just move and think nothing of it, whilst we sit there thinking what a dick. Are we over thinking it ourselves?
I used to get frazzled a lot and even would start crying in public about how "rude" people were but yes, if we push back, they do seem to just brush it off. We just have to try to forget about it afterwards as well but that's hard to do from a cultural standpoint. BUT, I'd much rather push back than feel I'm being bullied - even if culturally on their end, I'm not
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