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  #21  
Old 23.11.2011, 11:13
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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Even something so simple like today in a shop (Zara) and i wanted to try on some clothes. They only allowed 6 items to be taken into the change room at a time (like most places do). I however had 8 items, so i asked the staff in the shop if they could just put the 2 extra items aside on a rack or outside my change cabin. You should have seen the look on the staff's faces. There were 4 of them standing there looking at each other, not knowing WHAT TO DO. They're faces read something like "This isn't in the rules, and we have no rule for this, so we can't possibly do this." It was as if something had come up that wasn't in the computer program, so they all had a system malfunction. After a 5 minute discussion (of what seemed like a staff meeting) and holding up the line waiting, they came to the conclusion that they would have to put the 2 extra items back and i would have to go back out once i'd finished trying on the 6 items, and get the other two i wanted to try on, back of the racks were they belonged, and rejoin the changing room line.

I almost pulled all my hair out with frustration.
Let me get this straight - you are judging a whole country's ability to "think out of the box" using a bunch of Zara shop assistants as your representative sample??

Do you think clothes shops in other nations employ physicists? Shop assistants in the Yoo-Kay are certainly no different than here.

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  #22  
Old 23.11.2011, 11:49
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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Let me get this straight - you are judging a whole country's ability to "think out of the box" using a bunch of Zara shop assistants as your representative sample??

Do you think clothes shops in other nations employ physicists? Shop assistants in the Yoo-Kay are certainly no different than here.


You forgot to add that Zara is a Spanish company (just to complicate the boxing a bit).
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  #23  
Old 23.11.2011, 12:15
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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In england there are laws and regulations to stop you thinking outside the box and if you do then the state will prosecute you.

Classic proof why does the country shut down whenever it snows? Many years ago this didn't stop them but modern day dictates thats all schools must shut because a child might slip over and the school gets sued. My kids here in Switzerland think this is so funny and also shows those places who clearly think inside the box.

Switzerland is not as bad as some people suggest the problem is all the people who expect it to be the same as where they come from and who are not willing to think outside theri own box and work with the systems to their advantage not against them as so many like to. There might actually be a valid reason why 8 items are not allowed in the change rooms
Like "leaves on the track" or "wrong kind of snow"
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  #24  
Old 23.11.2011, 12:31
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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You forgot to add that Zara is a Spanish company (just to complicate the boxing a bit).
Just to complicate the boxing a bit more, the staff at Zara is mostly not typical swiss.
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  #25  
Old 23.11.2011, 12:37
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

I was to start a thread symilar so i will post here.

It is the same when i was trying to date someone here.

Here people are always busy, plans for weekend ahead and i proposed something simple:

Friendship is a lot of effort, talking about good things in life, the not so good, walking, hiking.

So i tried to adapt and i proposed to be lovers:

Quick, just need a room, no talking, efficient.

but this swiss ppl does not think outside the box......
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Old 23.11.2011, 12:50
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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The salesstaff were probably more confused trying to work out why someone could possibly even need to try 8 items - clearly you have too much money if you can afford 8 pieces of clothing in Zara!!!
Too much money
Clearly you've never been shopping with a lady
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  #27  
Old 23.11.2011, 13:21
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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In England there are laws and regulations to stop you thinking outside the box and if you do then the state will prosecute you.
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Classic proof why does the country shut down whenever it snows? Many years ago this didn't stop them but modern day dictates thats all schools must shut because a child might slip over and the school gets sued. My kids here in Switzerland think this is so funny and also shows those places who clearly think inside the box.
Switzerland is not as bad as some people suggest the problem is all the people who expect it to be the same as where they come from and who are not willing to think outside theri own box and work with the systems to their advantage not against them as so many like to. There might actually be a valid reason why 8 items are not allowed in the change rooms

This is not quite accurate.
Granted, snow causes the country to shut down, but this is due to a Victorian rail network, lack of grit, and lack of snow plough machines, and no airport runway heating. Why? 1. because the UK is broke, 2. it was determined the outlay in stocking up on these basic aids was deemed unnecessary for the potential couple of days of snow that might come and thus a waste of money.
I think the past couple of years may have made the UK have a re-think on that though. Switzerland has had snow and freezing temperatures forever, so of course their infrastructure is set-up to handle it.
The vicotrian rail system is a particular pain as many bridges and old lines, and underground tube lines have proved a particular issue to modernise. Plus, as stated the UK is broke.
There might be a valid reasons for no 8 items, but why they couldn’t just let you hang them outside is beyond me.
But I do agree health and safety has gone mad.
I had a “thinking outside the box” / “common sense” issue with my prior landlords. I had paid a full month rent when I only had to pay half, and my new tenants supposed to pay the the other half. I suggested the new tenants pay their half to me as the landlord/property managers had the full month rent already. Oh no no no, that would make sense and be far to easy.
The Swiss solution: The new tenants pay full, and we’ll refund your half when we sign off on the abschlussrechnung. So basically, they took double months rent for one month, and refunded me two month later after a big fight over deposit and excess charges.
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  #28  
Old 23.11.2011, 14:12
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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This is not quite accurate.
Granted, snow causes the country to shut down, but this is due to a Victorian rail network,
I think you'll find it all worked fine while the Victorians were in charge of it. Chopping it up, selling it off and expecting profit-at-all-costs companies to maintain it was probably the nail in coffin.
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  #29  
Old 23.11.2011, 14:37
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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Definitely feel your pain on the traffic issue, have seen that happen tens of times! It drives me crazy too. I keep wondering if people here are just not in a hurry..
No, they aren't.

You are just driving too slowly.

Tom
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  #30  
Old 23.11.2011, 14:37
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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I think you'll find it all worked fine while the Victorians were in charge of it. Chopping it up, selling it off and expecting profit-at-all-costs companies to maintain it was probably the nail in coffin.

Possibly, but I think it has more to do with populaton, people commuting to work, over crowding (population), an inability to build double decker trains as they will not pass through the low bridges.
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  #31  
Old 23.11.2011, 14:40
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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Here in Switzerland, you have laws, rules and regulations for almost everything.
Yes.

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These laws and rules and regulations have to be adhered to, whatever happens.
Unless you are in Ticino.

Tom
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  #32  
Old 23.11.2011, 14:58
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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Possibly, but I think it has more to do with populaton, people commuting to work, over crowding (population), an inability to build double decker trains as they will not pass through the low bridges.
It might be the fact that nobody will invest in it that lies at the crux of the problem.

Expanding populations mean more people are using the service and more people are paying (a lot!) into it.

I think an inability to "think out of the box" and invest for the future because the shareholders can't see any further than their profit share is probably closer to the reason it's all turning to shite.
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  #33  
Old 23.11.2011, 15:16
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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It might be the fact that nobody will invest in it that lies at the crux of the problem.

Expanding populations mean more people are using the service and more people are paying (a lot!) into it.

I think an inability to "think out of the box" and invest for the future because the shareholders can't see any further than their profit share is probably closer to the reason it's all turning to shite.

I do see your points, but think this is an infrasctrucure issue, not a cultural issue as is being discussed.

Thinking out of the box doesnt come into it. It's a question, of building new roads, higher bridges, and new tracks, causing mass destruction and inconvenience without potentially solving the issue completely and spending billions on something that may only improve marginally.

It is well acknowledged what needs to be done, its how to do it with as little impact as possible, in a time of financial fragilty.

Don't think it compares to "crap, this person has 8 items, we only permit 2, good lord how do we handle this situation" type scenario or similar.
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  #34  
Old 23.11.2011, 15:26
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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I do see your points, but think this is an infrasctrucure issue, not a cultural issue as is being discussed.

Thinking out of the box doesnt come into it. It's a question, of building new roads, higher bridges, and new tracks, causing mass destruction and inconvenience without potentially solving the issue completely and spending billions on something that may only improve marginally.

It is well acknowledged what needs to be done, its how to do it with as little impact as possible, in a time of financial fragility.
"Thinking outside of the box" would have meant there would have been ongoing investment through the 80s and 90s rather than having a crap system 30 years after privatisation and seemingly no money to pay for it.

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Don't think it compares to "crap, this person has 8 items, we only permit 2, good lord how do we handle this situation" type scenario or similar.
Yes, I can't imagine who would have brought up the subject of the Victorian railway system in the UK on a thread about shop assistants in a Swiss branch of Zara to in the first place.

Let me look back through the thread - hmmm...
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  #35  
Old 23.11.2011, 15:32
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

I do kinda agree with this. Many swiss have lived along side rules and ways-of-life their entire life. Luckily almost all this rules and guidelines work well, and the country functions fairly successfully because of it.

The issue arises however, that there is not contingency. If you experience one of these 'in the box' swiss deal with an outlier event...hell does break loose.

I've dealt with a few Swiss who have hit something that doesn't fit into their plan and the depression and disbelief hits like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.

Perhaps this is a bit of insight into the relatively high suicide rate of the country.
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  #36  
Old 23.11.2011, 15:46
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

I thought this was cute.

Yes, conformity at all costs and lack of creativity also drive me nuts, but I've seen them everywhere, not just in Switzerland. Then again, being a crazy, loud, "no BS" foreigner myself, I am sure I drive a lot of people nuts too

P.S. I have been a foreigner practically all my life, so I use the term liberally without any negative implications.
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  #37  
Old 23.11.2011, 16:04
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX

This post kinda interupts the thread a bit, but it's an appropriate place to tell a story from one of my old bosses:

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The Monkey Theory:
  • A room with 10 monkeys
  • A Ladder
  • A bunch of banana's
  • Researchers with a hose.
The 10 monkeys are in a room and can see the banana's suspended above the ladder.
Naturally they try to climb the ladder to get to the banana's.
The researcher begins to hose down the monkey trying to get to the banana's to deter him, and protect the banana's.

Each monkey tries and tries again to get to the banana's, and are pissed off with being hosed all the time.

Eventually the researcher changes tactic.

Now when a monkey climbs the ladder, not only the monkey, but ALL monkeys get hosed.

The monkeys are ALL wet and pissed off with the monkey who climbs the ladder and beat him.

Each time a monkey tries to climb the ladder, the other monkeys beat the monkey to stop themselves from getting wet.

ENTER a new monkey
(by taking one out of the room, and replacing him).

Naturally the new monkey wants the banana's and tries to climb the ladder.....the new monkey is beaten by the other monkeys (to prevent themselves from being hosed) and the new monkey soon learns NOT to climb the ladder.
(but....... he has never been hosed)

Remove another old monkey, and replace with a new monkey.... and the recently introduced monkey learns to beat the new monkey who climbs the ladder - EXACTLY the same way he was beaten.

over time, and one by one, ALL the original monkeys can be removed until the cage is full of new monkeys.

All the new monkeys don't climb the ladder...... and have conditioned themselves NOT to try to get the banana's........but they don't know why.
(none of them have ever been wet)
"Thinking outside the box" is not a matter of just accepting "No" for answer, but asking yourself the question:
"Why not?"

(then you can start to construct a new idea on how to get around a problem)
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  #38  
Old 23.11.2011, 16:10
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

With some Swiss - the only time they think outside the box is when the box is very small!!!

We were musing over the same thing yesterday - having dined with a friend who is wheat, dairy and egg intolerent - we were amazed and how flexible the staff in Nobu were in delivering a meal for her as good as we had - with no fuss.

Not quite the same story if we try that here!!
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  #39  
Old 23.11.2011, 16:12
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

I tried that once. The wife was none too pleased.
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Old 23.11.2011, 16:20
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Re: Thinking outside the box.

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I tried that once. The wife was none too pleased.
Thinking?

Yeah. My ex was like that.
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